Hopefully Posted September 8, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, appy said: From the following quote from the book of Enoch, I can see why one poster called the entire book blasphemous. Thank you for providing that verse for us. I just read the whole chapter 40 to see for myself too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted September 8, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, David1701 said: Regarding discernment: when I first read Psalm 151 (from a modern English translation of the Septuagint), the word "uninspired" smacked me right in the spirit. Sometimes you just know.. Thank you. I hadn’t considered a full study of Enoch for myself. I know the Bible speaks of fallen angels but does not give details about their interactions with people other than mating with women. To read they also introduced some forbidden knowledge didn’t seem far off to me.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted September 8, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hopefully said: Thank you. I hadn’t considered a full study of Enoch for myself. I know the Bible speaks of fallen angels but does not give details about their interactions with people other than mating with women. To read they also introduced some forbidden knowledge didn’t seem far off to me.  Realize that the word gnostic, means "hidden knowledge". Man is always wanting to know more than God wants us to know. And the gnostics in bible times were certainly steeped in occultic leanings from the get go. Gnostic works feed that desire to have a so called knowledge, that no one else has, as if they have an edge over other people knowledge wise. The book of Enoch comes from the gnostics. It is safe to say this, since the book itself, reads like all other gnostic work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted September 8, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 8, 2021 God designed us with the need and desire to fellowship and worship God. I posted pages back, that when man pushed God away, his heart became foolish, and man was always thinking up new ways to sin in order to fulfill what was inherent in his nature. This is in the bible. Its like your looking for a way out from being held accountable for sins committed, by blaming evil entities, because without them, man could not of possibly committed all these different sins. Adam when he sinned, was held accountable period, in spite of Satan being the instigator. Adam tried to get out of being held accountable, by first blaming it on Eve, then on God. And your post here, certainly parallels this by the insistence that man could not possibly of learned to sin all on his own. And yet in Genesis 6, God does not say that the fallen angels are the blame. He lays the blame squarely at the feet of mankind. Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of mankind was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. Â 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, appy said: And your post here, certainly parallels this by the insistence that man could not possibly of learned to sin all on his own. So is it safe to say that you don’t believe fallen angels taught man any sin or forbidden knowledge and that all they did was mate with humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly2363 Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 579 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 303 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Hopefully said: Thank you. I hadn’t considered a full study of Enoch for myself. I know the Bible speaks of fallen angels but does not give details about their interactions with people other than mating with women. To read they also introduced some forbidden knowledge didn’t seem far off to me.   Well you have me blocked so far as I now know - so you may not read this. Your sense that the fallen angels imparted forbidden knowledge hidden by God and therefore occult - (its true meaning) isn't at all wrong. The entire occult world is a world that is devoted to drawing back the veil on all that God has created in all spheres of material and spiritual meanings. Whilst I have read the entire five parts of Enoch what shocked me about it is the detail of things I witnessed when I was in the occult many years ago and again the Lord permitted me to see again when I came to addressing some very serious effects that are taking place in many churches. Balaam is a classic example of the schism that exists when those who are appointed by God - as Balaam was a true gentile prophet - and then misuses that gifting to effect outcomes that are contrary to God. That veil which separates what is hidden  and forbidden by God from what is seen and permitted by God is proportionately removed by God from the prophet and so all true prophets can draw back the veil and see what things truly mean in order to speak for God or else speak against God if they are carnally minded. The singular meaning is defined in how the veil is removed because if you look at Balaam he consulted God when he was asked to curse Israel in the dessert and refused but when he was acting in his own flesh he was withstood by an angel and rebuked by a donkey. Yet for all that he went in the flesh and gave the enemies of Israel the means to ensnare them. The book of Enoch is in that meaning yet it is essentially also gnostic and esoteric  -because rather than having an effect on those who have no discernment, as David just defined a meaning that states that all born again Christians have a measure of discernment - the unbeliever finds a way into things that are in truth hidden by being given a way to see behind the veil. I wish I had the liberty to spell out just how dangerous the book of Enoch is - because what is described there I have seen both as an unbeliever by occult means and as a believer by spiritual necessity. None of it is as we would imagine - and all of it harms a true faith to hold Christ and no other as our sole apostle and author of our salvation. We do not need to see such things as are expressed in the book of Enoch. And you ought not to feel that my strong words are in any way personal or intentionally harmful. They are not. Edited September 9, 2021 by Kelly2363 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hopefully said: So is it safe to say that you don’t believe fallen angels taught man any sin or forbidden knowledge and that all they did was mate with humans? I put NO stock in the book of Enoch period, nor am I interested in any of the Apocrypha writings. Why should I believe that man's sin came from the fallen angels, when scripture says otherwise? Since you are set on this idea, the burden is on you to show me why I should believe this. Scripture itself, supersedes any outside writings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 Just now, appy said: Since you are set on this idea, the burden is on you to show me why I should believe this My internet wasn’t to persuade anyone to believe anything but to have a discussion about it from likeminded people who do believe it. Many Christians believe the first book of Enoch many do not.  I feel like as long as I believe in Jesus it’s okay to believe anything else too because no other belief supersedes Jesus. Everything else must agree with him to be true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hopefully said: My internet wasn’t to persuade anyone to believe anything but to have a discussion about it from likeminded people who do believe it. Many Christians believe the first book of Enoch many do not.  I feel like as long as I believe in Jesus it’s okay to believe anything else too because no other belief supersedes Jesus. Everything else must agree with him to be true. Well, as you can see, a lot of people do NOT agree and are NOT likeminded, in regard to the book itself or its teachings. Some agree, but most do not. And as Pat said, Quote But if they hold it up at the same level as the bible, then that is heretical in nature as its clearly not inspired, and claiming something is inspired when it is not, is, in at least my book, heresy. This is Pats opinion, I on the other hand agree with kelly, that it is a blasphemous book, not just a heretical book. And there is a really good reason it is excluded from canon. I posted one verse from it and that verse says it all, of why it is excluded. This is not the first discussion where this book is concerned. Past threads have been debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Starise said: I'm done here. I've said all I had to say. Me too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts