WJRST?

[Sgtazur]

So... people that God loved , like King David, Abraham, Moses and so on are in eternal damnation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They lived during the Old Covenant, and followed it's rules. So yes, they're saved.

Today we're in the New Covenant, though, because Jesus is now raised from the dead. If King David/Abraham/Moses were alive today, they'd have to follow the rules of this time.

[Giaour]

Which old testament covenant rules did they follow?

Seems to me that each one of them sinned.

[Gerioke]

David was an adultererand murderer amongst other things.

It seems to me that grace was extended even before Jesus came along.

[Guest shiloh357]

So... people that God loved , like King David, Abraham, Moses and so on are in eternal damnation?

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in the Old Testament, the OT saints placed their faith in the Messiah to come. We place our faith in the Messiah to come. Paul teaches that even the OT it salvation was by faith. David has many psalms which are actually prophecies about the Messiah, Moses was taught all of those things in the Festivals and Sacrifices that foretold of Messiah's coming. In Galatians, Paul tells us that the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

[Gerioke]

Don't the modern day religious Jews believe in a messiah to come? The same messiah that David believed in?

[Christ's Free Servant]

For one thing it doesn't make logical sense. There hasn't been one person on earth since Adam and Adam didn't sin until there was two people.  If Jesus would die for one person , why didn't he for two and fix everything back then?

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Mtt 18:12-14: "'What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.'"

Is it possible that the principle of this scripture could apply here? It shows the importance of one "sheep," does it not? I know that it does not specifically say that Christ would die for one person, but I think it certainly implies the importance of one person who is unsaved to Christ. What do you think?

[Guest shiloh357]

Don't the modern day religious Jews believe in a messiah to come? The same messiah that David believed in?

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Depends on what part of Judaism you belong to. Judaism is not a monolith. You will find that many see the "Messiah" as an ideal, not a person. Some see "Messiah" as a metaphor for a sort of Utopean age.

There are those who a believe in a personal Messiah, BUT do not believe THE Messiah, they do not believe the Scriptures. It is not enough to believe in A Messiah to come. They must believe in THE Messiah who has come. If they reject Jesus, there is no hope for them. Yet Messiah came through the Jewish people, and that is why Paul strives to inspire Christians to reach the Jewish people with the Gospel.

[apothanein kerdos]

You're debating over something that doesn't matter. Would Jesus have died to save just one life? I don't know and quite honestly I don't care. I don't need scripture to believe that He would have. Did Jesus sneeze? Do I need to bring forth scripture to prove that? Jesus choosing to die for one person isn't a doctrinal statement but instead a statement about the love of Christ and doesn't contradict any scriptural precedence in the Bible, thus it doesn't need scripture to be true.

Would Jesus have died for just one person? Look at the character of Jesus and how He dealt with people on the personal level and you'll find your answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can say that with a straight face and clear conscience?

Why Yeshua shed his blood doesn't matter? Giving a made up, supposed reason is OK? You don't need scripture to back up your beliefs?

I never said it was a doctrinal statement but this just proves how little you know about your Savior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I fail to see anything intelligent in your reply/ramble. Did you actually add something worthwhile?

[Pipit]

For one thing it doesn't make logical sense. There hasn't been one person on earth since Adam and Adam didn't sin until there was two people.  If Jesus would die for one person , why didn't he for two and fix everything back then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think even if Christ died back then, sin would have stilled reigned. People would have still denied Him, and people would still live in the flesh, which is sinful. Yes, there would have been many who recieved His grace, but many more would have denied it. So His death back then would not have 'fixed' it... just as His death 2000 years ago did not fix it. It only made the grace open for the sinner. It will be fixed when He comes back again, and this sinful world passes away.

[Gerioke]

So...

Do all the born-again Christians here on this site think all the Jews that were gassed by the Nazis are damned to Hell just because they were Jews??

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They did not go to hell for being Jews. They went to hell because they did not know the Messiah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So...if the prison guard who gassed them believed in Christ, he gets into heaven; but the people he murders don't??

If that's true, it sound to me like God has chosen to foresake His Chosen people.

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If the prison gaurd who gassed them believed in Christ, he probably wouldn't have gassed them.