Last Day Resurrection? How does that work?

[Diaste]

There are at least four resurrections in the NT before the 'first':

Lazarus

Jesus( and all the tombs opened)

Jairus' daughter

The two witnesses

The 'first' resurrection is a protos resurrection. Not first in order, but the top, important, main, primary.

[Uriah]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

There are at least four resurrections in the NT before the 'first':

Lazarus

Jesus( and all the tombs opened)

Jairus' daughter

The two witnesses

The 'first' resurrection is a protos resurrection. Not first in order, but the top, important, main, primary.

This will point out some things worth considering on this particular topic. "protos"  is used to denote rank AND order. The context, as usual, usually goes quite far in determining which. Even, so there are places where it can truly be BOTH!

We can notice that the word resurrection in not used for these people. Both resurrection and rose/raised etc. are used for Jesus, who  supersedes all others. The difference seems to be that those listed above were raised by the working of a human here on Earth, even though it was Jesus. He Himself is raised directly by God the father and "resurrection" is applied to Him, the same will be true of those in Rev. 20 and after. Theologians therefore call these two the first general resurrection and the second is just is labeled fittingly.

Also, Jesus goes so far as to render support for this. Luke 20:36- Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection

This is not we see in those listed. Instead the first resurrection is situated in comparison to another that will take place later. So it becomes a separate category of sorts, as I see it and not something people can adjust to make a gazillion resurrections for example.

Still looking another verse on this topic, when I find it I'll post it.

[Retrobyter]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:23 PM, DeighAnn said:

Yes, yes we have Retro, and yet still here we are...

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Romans 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No, ma'am; you're taking matters out of their context again. The term "firstfruits" is treated as a SINGULAR word. It refers to the two loaves of bread that are waved in the wave offering. It is singular because it comes from the ONE harvest. This wave offering was made from the first harvest of wheat which occurred after the counting of the omer, the 50 days from Pesach (Passover) to the time commenorating the giving of the Torah from Mt. Sinai, called Shavuot and called "Pentecost" for the Greek word meaning "fifty" in the New Testament.

While the word may have been used symbolically for the man Epaenetus, the FIRST to be justified by God from the land of Achaia. Abarim Publications says,

"The name Achaia in the Bible Achaia or Achaea was the name of the northern portion of the Peloponnese; the peninsula just west of Athens. It was conquered in 146 BC by the Romans, who transferred its name upon the region at large: the Roman province Achaia, now covering the whole Peloponnese and also including the area north of it."

But, Paul used the Jewish term differently with MUCH more significance than a mere allegory!

On 9/11/2021 at 4:23 PM, DeighAnn said:

1. Christ
2. The first fruits
3.  The alive and remaining  THEN COMES THE END OF THE FLESH AGE.  ALL THE DEAD DEAD AND IN THEIR HEAVENLY/CELESTIAL BODIES WHILE THE FOWLS OF THE AIR ARE FEASTING UPON WHAT ONCE WAS THEIR FLESH AND THOUGH THEY WILL REMAIN DEAD (MORTAL) FOR THE NEXT 1000 YEARS WHILE THEY ARE TAUGHT GODS TRUTH THEY MAY, IF THEY WISH RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY LIKE THOSE WHO WERE ALIVE AND REMAINING AND CHANGED DID WHEN CHRIST RETURNED AT THE 2ND ADVENT AS LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS.  

NO!!! This is just TOTALLY WRONG on SO MANY LEVELS! First, it is important for one to understand that Paul is speaking THROUGHOUT this chapter on the subject of the Resurrection. That's what the whole chapter is about.

Second, Yeshua` Himself, the Messiah (the "Christ") IS the "Firstfruits!" The verbs Paul employs here are in the SINGULAR! The Messiah ALONE is the "Firstfruits!" He is the Firstfruits" of what? He is the Firstfruits of the HARVEST, the RESURRECTION!

THEN, thirdly, we read, "afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." It is at this SECOND point in Paul's list that we read about the "Second Coming" of the Messiah when He raises to new life those who belong to Him who are awaiting His coming in the grave!

Finally, it is the third point, which occurs AFTER the Millennium, in which we read, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

My advice to you and everyone who gets this wrong is to FOLLOW THE KINGDOM!

Right now, it doesn't truly exist: Yeshua` gave us a couple of parables to help get this straight:

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, 'Occupy till I come.'

"14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, 'We will NOT have this man to reign over us!' 

15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 "Then came the first, saying, 'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 17 And he said unto him, 'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities!' 

18 "And the second came, saying, 'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.' 19 And he said likewise to him, 'Be thou also over five cities!' 

20 "And another came, saying, 'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.' 22 And he saith unto him, 'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant! Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by, 'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.' 25 (And they said unto him, 'Lord, he [already] hath ten pounds!') 26 'For I say unto you, "That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him."

27 "'But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me!'"

That's YESHUA` talking! He also said,

Matthew 25:31-46 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them (the nations) one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "Then shall THE KING say unto them on his right hand, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, 'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 "And THE KING shall answer and say unto them, 'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren (the children of Israel, particularly the Jews, and those adopted into Yeshua`s "Mishpachah," His "Family"), ye have done it unto me.'

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not!' 

44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying, 'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?'

45 "Then shall he answer them, saying, 'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me!' 

46 And these [nations] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [nations] into life eternal.

Two things one must pick up on in this passage of Scripture: First, the angels are NOT immediately throwing the second group into the fire. The King has just CONSIGNED them there! Second, this is a judgment on the NATIONS, not on the individuals within those nations. IF the individuals choose to remain with their nation, then they will suffer the fate of that nation. HOWEVER, if they choose to renounce their nation and seek asylum in another nation, they have the opportunity to share in the fate of that new nation. Not everyone in a particular nation given over to anti-Semetism is anti-Semetic. So, one should temper his or her belief about this passage with Peter's words:

2 Peter 3:8-9 (KJV)

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

On 9/11/2021 at 4:23 PM, DeighAnn said:

CHRIST THE FIRST FRUITS OF ?????????

NOW HOWEVER CHRIST HAS BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD

I've already touched on this, but the Christ, that is, the Messiah is the Firstfruits of the RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD! He alone had His Resurrection body when He rose from the dead.

On 9/11/2021 at 4:23 PM, DeighAnn said:

TRY  ING UP ON IT from a different direction...maybe that will help

FIRSTFRUIT OF THOSE HAVING FALLEN ASLEEP

maybe read the reply to Uriah   

D

Nah, sneeking up on it won't change the facts about the Resurrection.

[Retrobyter]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

If you could just add IMO sometimes it might just mitigate some issues coming that way...

Shalom, DeighAnn.

I could, but there are many times that I'm just looking at the Scriptures that God had blessed me with the knowledge of understanding. I understand the Scriptures, better than many, and when I asked God for wisdom, He gave me the same word He said about Sh'mu'el:

1 Samuel 3:19 (KJV)

19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground. 

YHWH God would let none of my words fall to the ground, either. I consider myself a prophet of God, but not in the Seer way. I am not a "foreteller"; I'm a "forthteller." I tell others what God has said, and I tell them, equipped with the truth, to go forth.

There are many things about which I'm wise enough not to pursue in conversation; however, I DO know certain things that are (to me) the OBVIOUS reasons for why they are important. For instance, I know why our churches have so little power.

Why would God validate with miracles a message He doesn't endorse?

I know why the Lord Yeshua` the Messiah of God has been away for so long. First, we're not preaching the right "gospel!" Yeshua` Himself said,

Matthew 24:14 (KJV)

14 "And this gospel OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and THEN shall the end come."

If one would like the delay to be shortened, one must start heralding ("preaching") the good news of the Kingdom!

Yeshua` also said to the Jews of Jerusalem,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 

38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

So, if one wants the Lord Yeshua` to return, one must encourage the Jews of Jerusalem to say "Baruwkh haba' bshem YHWH," the Hebrew sentence translated here as "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

How does one do that? He or she must follow what Paul told us in Romans 11:

Romans 11:25-32 (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

27 "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
but as touching the election (God's choosing), they are BELOVED for the fathers' sakes. 

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (God doesn't renege on His gifts and calling revealed to the children of Israel in the OT). 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Anti-semetism is JUST THE OPPOSITE of what we should be doing for the children of Israel, particularly the Jews! Instead, show them the MERCY you've received; so that, through your MERCY on them, THEY, TOO, SHALL OBTAIN MERCY! As more and more of them obtain God's mercy, they will gravitate to His Son, the One who was Anointed to be the ULTIMATE King of Israel! When they can "welcome He who comes with YHWH'S authority," THEN the Master Yeshua` shall return!

It's not rocket science, but I am EVER amazed that so few understand this!

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

NO, I am NOT putting 'ENTIRELY TOO MUCH' weight ON JACOBS LADDER. 
IT ISN'T AN INTERPRETATION.

Yes, you are. You're going to "snap the rungs" on this "ladder!"

Genesis 28:10-22 (KJV)

10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran. 11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. 12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven (to the skies): and behold the angels of God (Hebrew: mal'akheey Elohiym = "messengers of-God") ascending and descending on it. 13 And, behold, the LORD (YHWH) stood above it, and said,

"I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; 14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. 15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of."

16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said,

"Surely the LORD (YHWH) is in this place; and I knew it not."

17 And he was afraid, and said,

"How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the 'house of God,' and this is the gate of heaven."

18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. 19 And he called the name of that place Bethel (Hebrew: Beit-Eel = "House of God"): but the name of that city was called Luz at the first. 20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying,

"If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

And, THAT is the extent of what the dream meant! Don't go adding to God's Word!

 

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

GOD GAVE THE DREAM AND GOD ALSO TELLS US EXACTLY WHAT THE DREAM MEANS. 
WE DON'T GET TO MESS WITH IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES,  EVER.  

Right! But, I'm glad YOU said it and not me! And, this ...

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

EVERYONE GETS A NEW BODY.  THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. 

... is "messing with it!"

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH.  

Though IMMORTALITY COMES FROM FAITH.  SO LETS SEE IT AGAIN.  
 

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Big difference between spiritual body IMMORTAL and spiritual body MORTAL. 

This "difference" is NOT made in Paul's writing of 1 Corinthians 15!

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

IMMORTAL - alive and remaining and EVER WITH THE LORD, of the 1st resurrection, 2nd death has no effect, pre ordained, fore knew, very elect, elect endured to the end,  etc.  

"Immortal" simply means that the body so raised will never be able to die again.

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

MORTAL - 'the dead rise' first,  let the dead bury the dead,   speak to these dead bones (before faith) etc. 

The "mortal" are simply those we see every day who have the promise, "It is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment." Those who are "mortal" are bodies that SHALL die, because we are the children of Adam. There's nothing bad about such a body; it's just not self-sustaining! We need a JUMP START in the Resurrection! The body that comes out of the grave who belongs to the Messiah shall be TRANSFORMED in the Resurrection!

1 Corinthians 15:42-57 (KJV)

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
44 It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = "a-body breathing-air"); it is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = "a-body blasting-like-the-wind").

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written,

"The first man Adam was made a living soul" (Greek: eis psucheen zoosan = "into an-air-breathing-being living");

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: eis pneuma zoo-opoioun = "into a-wind life-giving"). 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy (Greek: ek gees choikos = "out of-earth dust-like"): the second man is the Lord from heaven (Greek: ex ouranou = "out of-sky"). 48 As is the earthy (Greek: ho choikos = "the-one dust-like"), such are they also that are earthy (Greek: hoi choikoi = "the-ones dust-like"): and as is the heavenly (Greek: ho epouranios = "the-one above-the-sky", such are they also that are heavenly (Greek: hoi epouranioi = "the-ones above-the-sky"). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: teen eikona tou choikou = "the image of-the dust-like one"), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: teen eikona tou epouraniou = "the image of-the one-above-the-sky").

50 Now this I say, brethren, that [mere] flesh (muscle) and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (that which may decay) inherit incorruption (that which cannot decay). 

THAT'S why ...

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. 53 For this corruptible (the bodies that may decay) must put on incorruption (the inability to decay), and this mortal (the bodies that may die) must put on immortality (the inability to die). 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory!"

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The 'nations' that were DECEIVED, those who have received the mark of the beast, they don't go into the pit.  They will remain 'dead' but THEY will be coming to worship at the temple for the next 1000 years.  Though they be 'dead/mortal/liable to be going into the lake of fire at the end of it all.  

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

They can't LIVE/become immortal until they are TESTED, same as many today, when Satan is loosed again for a short season.  ONLY THEN can they receive immortality/live.   

Wow! You may not understand this, but these statements are TANTAMOUNT to BLASPHEMY! You've basically accused the children of Israel of being incapable of living for the God most of them served quite well for MILLENNIA before the likes of us came on the scene!

You've shown me that you have absolutely NO CONCEPT of the Kingdom of God nor do you know the prophecies that God will NOT let fall to the ground! Every one of the prophecies that God has proclaimed through the mouths of the prophets SHALL INVARIABLY COME TRUE as predicted!

I will pray for you, but the things you've just said above declare God INCAPABLE of fulfilling the HAPPY PROPHECIES to Israel in the Tanakh (the OT)!

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Remember the RICH MAN in PARADISE?  His earthly body was in a grave in the dust of the earth but he was in paradise.  

Nope. The "rich man" of the account of Lazarus was never IN "paradise."

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

Something to ponder  

At the end of the millennium when JUDGMENT is TAKING PLACE do you really believe that there will be ANYONE being judged who will have any sort of 'built in EXCUSE' such as 'my sinful flesh' was the problem?  or 'I was crippled' or 'I have a mental disability' or "I was abused"???   NOT a chance. 

THE EVIL JUDGED will be FROM THE HEARTS AND THE MINDS, there will be NO EXCUSE because of any physical problems.   ALL will have been in the exact same KIND of body.  All their most perfect 'image' of themselves.   

Whoever said they would be able to make such a claim?

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

The 'mortal body' will become incorruptible same as the immortal body (except in the lake of fire)

Or, so goes the rhetoric of the philosophy. I don't know that's actually true. Remember: there's death, and there's DEATH! The first death is the normal mortality we experience when we are said to "fall asleep." The SECOND Death involves the dead coming to life, standing before the Throne of the Messiah (the Great White Throne), receiving His righteous judgment, and SUFFERING THE JUST SENTENCE FOR THEIR SINS.

On 9/11/2021 at 5:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

 The difference between the millennium 'peoples' will be those who have received their immortality and those who have not  aka the quick and the dead
 

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1 Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1 Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

That addresses that I think and  I'll be back soon.  Thank you for bringing this up again, always finding new old verses... D

No more time tonight, but suffice it to say that there are MAJOR problems with your interpretation of this passage in 1 Peter 4. Furthermore, your first statement in this section is more of the same blasphemy.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add a couple of words for clarity

[Baltika]

Interesting. Thanks

[Kelly2363]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I could, but there are many times that I'm just looking at the Scriptures that God had blessed me with the knowledge of understanding. I understand the Scriptures, better than many, and when I asked God for wisdom, He gave me the same word He said about Sh'mu'el:

1 Samuel 3:19 (KJV)

19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground. 

YHWH God would let none of my words fall to the ground, either. I consider myself a prophet of God, but not in the Seer way. I am not a "foreteller"; I'm a "forthteller." I tell others what God has said, and I tell them, equipped with the truth, to go forth.

 

I presume, therefore, that seeing as you have such a confidence, you will realise that to be measured will be the scale of measuring who is obedient by your word? 

[Kelly2363]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:54 PM, DeighAnn said:

and I just woke up with these questions asking for answers

What I understand the 'belief's to be, so probably wrong but don't know what is right,

are either

1.  All who die/sleep are buried and are from that point on the body and spirit/soul remain'alseep' until the last day when their 'body/spirit/soul' is resurrected at Christs return and will be resurrected IN A BODY made up of the same body that had been dead and decaying and a part of the dust of the earth but AN EARTHLY body no matter what.  

2.  All who die/sleep are buried and their body remains 'asleep', decaying but their bodyless spirits return to heaven to await returning with Christ when at that time they are to be reunited with that buried decaying body which will be resurrected so the spirit can be rejoined with it and same as #1,will for the millennium will be a body 'made from the dust of the earth' and EARTHY body.  

or

3.  Which I believe is - when the flesh body dies the spirit/soul/body that descended down Jacobs ladder as an angel (heavenly body) is instantly released and as that same angel goes back to God IN A HEAVENLY BODY and to paradise to await
1.  returning with Christ or
2.  be shaken out or
3.  rolled up. 

but NEVER TO BE AN EARTHLY/terrestrial  BODY AGAIN but a HEAVENLY BODY/celestial/forever.  

Can't forget to add the a pre trib rapt bit of chaos and confusion  cause SEEING will stop the believing I believe, so if there is a pre trib rapt then in heaven

1.  will be angels (cause we are not)
2.  possibly 'spirits' without bodies (cause theirs is in the dirt of earth asleep and if they had bodies they would be spiritual you know, "angels")
3.  and those now "transformed" who have bodies but are not angels??? (how do you tell them apart?) 

those attending the wedding, I guess,  while tribulation such as never has been seen (probably cause the Lord is doing other things) is taking place on earth

Which would mean when Christ returns the ARMIES will consist of the
1.  'transformed' body and spirits, yet not angels (those pre trib rapted)
2.  'bodyless' spirits (bodies asleep in ground) and
3.  angels

(Maybe easy to see how all that goes against everything God) 

Then when they all get to earth the angels and the transformed wait in the sky while the 'bodyless' come to earth to get their new earthly bodies and then go back to the sky joining the others and then those who are alive and remain are transformed and they then join all those who have been waiting in the sky I think???

Which covers the 'believers'. 



 Now we have those who don't. 

All who died 'not believing' in Christ have their spirits and decaying bodies that won't 'rise' in any way shape or form until judgment day. And so are not a part of any of the 1000 years and ONLY come to 'life' after Satan is released and that war takes place. 

Which leaves us with those who have taken the mark of the beast,  upon whom Gods wrath is going to fall. 

Are they going to die, 1st death? Or not? 

If they don't die are they going to be burnt to a crisp till the day they do?  How long do they live?  Do they stay in the flesh the whole time?  Do they have babies?  Do they raise babies that aren't burnt?  What happens when they die?  What happens when their babies die? What happens at the end of the 1000 years?  Will there be babies fighting? 

It all just seems so much easier to have everyone who dies go to be in paradise and to either be shaken out of heaven or return with Christ and have the marked be slayed by the mouth of Him returning so that they can quickly resurrect in their incorruptible bodies (joining with those shaken out of heaven) to watch those who are alive and remaining be transformed and receive their immortality and join those who have returned with Christ to rule and reign for the next 1000 years


I do believe that  all those who where shaken out of heaven (not rolled away) and those when died at Christs return and resurrected to their incorruptible body (not in the pit) just like the shaken will be TAUGHT for the next 1000 years.  These are alive in body but must remain 'spiritually dead' (remain 'dead' for the 1000 years) while learning and only when tested at the end either 'come to being spiritually ALVIE/life' or die in lake of fire. 


time for some coffee...

 

Perhaps you should have had your coffee first Sister. 

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

I presume, therefore, that seeing as you have such a confidence, you will realise that to be measured will be the scale of measuring who is obedient by your word? 

Shalom, Kelly2363.

Oh, ABSOLUTELY! That's why I don't often mention it. I would rather lead than push. God HAD INDEED given me a measure of wisdom, and part of that is in the approach I take. After all, anything that I "know" about the Scriptures is ALL from Him in the first place!

[Kelly2363]

4 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Kelly2363.

Oh, ABSOLUTELY! That's why I don't often mention it. I would rather lead than push. God HAD INDEED given me a measure of wisdom, and part of that is in the approach I take. After all, anything that I "know" about the Scriptures is ALL from Him in the first place!

Shalom Retrobyter

That was an open and refreshing response brother. I'll be open with you also. I was looking forward to your reply because I have been reading your posts for more than a year now. That, mundanely put, has to do with your scheme of writing. I do like your transliteration approach - it works very well.  I can also sense that this approach in some way is reflective of your ministry. But I also wish to explore the prophetic sense you derived in your expiation that I quoted. I have studied Samuel for many years and his ministry forms a bridge between Judging and prophetic forth telling - whereas Judging would necessarily require a prophetic spirit also. That transition came about because Israel asked for a king. 

[Retrobyter]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 PM, Uriah said:

 Hi DeighAnn,

I will keep mine short.

There are only 2 resurrections spoken of in scripture, see Rev. 20. You have to use word games to make more. (redefine "first" to include more)

Shalom, Uriah.

Let's make those word games more than just fiction: What did the Messiah Yeshua` say just prior to the resurrection of Eleazar ("Lazarus")?

John 11:1-27 (KJV)

1 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying,

"Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick."

4 When Jesus heard that, he said,

"This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby."

5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus. 6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was. 7 Then after that saith he to his disciples,

"Let us go into Judaea again."

8 His disciples say unto him,

"Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?"

9 Jesus answered,

"Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them,

"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

12 Then said his disciples,

"Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well."

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly,

"Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him."

16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples,

"Let us also go, that we may die with him!"

17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already. 18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off: 19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother. 20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house. 21 Then said Martha unto Jesus,

"Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee."

23 Jesus saith unto her,

"Thy brother shall rise again!"

24 Martha saith unto him,

"I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25 Jesus said unto her,

"I AM THE RESURRECTION, AND THE LIFE: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

27 She saith unto him,

"Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

What you were talking about are two GENERAL Resurrections, and when one uses that term, one is correct. However, make no mistake! Yeshua` is the Messiah of God, the One Anointed by God to be the next and GREATEST King in Israel! Furthermore, the 1,000 years (the "Millennium") are merely the FIRST 1,000 years of His reign!

Don't you think that Yeshua`, having returned to this earth to reign over Israel, over the surrounding nations that treated His people well (the sheep nations), and over the world as He becomes the "King of kings," the "World Emperor," won't continue the miracles He performed with His Father's power? There will be MANY individual resurrections throughout the Millennium!

Consider His words to the disciples of Yochanan (John), the Immerser:

Matthew 11:2-6 (KJV)

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ (the miracles of the Messiah), he sent two of his disciples, 3 And said unto him,

"Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?"

4 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 
5 The blind receive their sight,
and the lame walk,
the lepers are cleansed,
and the deaf hear,
the dead are raised up,
and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."

We're only told of a handful of resurrection events, but there were MANY more during His First Advent. WHY WOULD WE THINK HE WON'T DO THE SAME WHEN HE RETURNS "WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY" AT HIS SECOND ADVENT?

Remember what Yochanan (John) also said:

John 21:25 (KJV)

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen (Hebrew for "Truth").

Resurrection is one of the PROOFS that Yeshua` is indeed God's Messiah, Anointed TO BE KING!

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 PM, Uriah said:

Matt. 25 shows the resurrection when Jesus returns-sheep and goats. That will be the FIRST!

Umm... Sorry, but the "sheep and the goats" is a judgment on NATIONS. Indeed, it is a WAR TRIBUNAL upon ALL who participated in Har-Megiddown ("Armageddon"). Those who treated His people (the children of Israel, particularly the children of Yhudah called simply the "Jews," as well as those adopted into His Family through faith) well, shall be annexed into His Kingdom as Vassal States!

To those who MISTREATED and ABUSED His people He shall say, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!" 

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 PM, Uriah said:

The other one is AFTER the 1,000 yrs.-the SECOND!

Yes, this is what Yochanan ("John") said in the Revelation, chapter 20.

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 PM, Uriah said:

There is no "sleep" at death, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord according to Paul.

And, yet, both Yeshua` (our Lord) in John 11:11 and 13 above, Matthew 9:34, and Luke 8:52 and Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:30; 15:6, 18, 20, and 51, and in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 and 5:10 gave us the word "sleep" for the temporary death in the Messiah. The word was used for Stephen's death in Acts 7:60, and Paul again used the word in Acts 13:36 for David's death.

To be "present with the Lord" first requires "the Lord to be present." It's an expression that shows how quickly being asleep will pass. We close our eyes in death, and the next thing we know is that we are opening our eyes in His presence! However, there's no promise of "going to heaven when one dies." Instead, we are given the promise:

Acts 1:10-11 (KJV)

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (toward the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (into the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (into the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (go into the sky)."

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 PM, Uriah said:

I say that is for ALL who have died and it is at the Second Coming according to Jesus! What justifies is negating the idea of TIME when someone dies. This is for believers. God may just as well make it so time seems prolonged at death for the unbelievers (death the day before he comes may seem like an eternity of wailing in darkness for them) 

My belief is that NO ONE was resurrected in Matt. 27. Is there anywhere in scripture where people were called "bodies". No, their name or a lad or young girl, was used. The manuscript is void of the word "resurrection". Bodies coming out of tombs is directly connected in the wording to an earthquake. The rest is likely the split rocks being seen around the city. Its the wording.

Well, you see what you want to see, but that's not true about Matthew 27:

Matthew 27:45-54 (KJV)

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said,

"This man calleth for Elias!"

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink. 49 The rest said,

"Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him."

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose (Greek: egeertheesan = "woke up"), 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying,

"Truly this was the Son of [a] God!"

 

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 PM, Uriah said:

Every explanation you will see at this site or others. or in commentaries or sermons etc. will have its short fallings, because...1Cor 13:9- For we know in part,... so if you think you will find 100% satisfaction, sorry, God has wisely made it so we ALL require FAITH! 

Well, this is generally true regardless what one believes. We are not God; therefore, there will always be some details that we don't know.