Israel is “saved” nationally - not as the Christian is

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So to your next logical question. `What is this that makes the "the body of Christ " and "the OT saints" and "Israel" stand apart from one another? `

And that is a huge study, however I will try and be succinct and then you may have more questions.

The Body of Christ - the Ekklesia/called out ones, called out from Israel and the nations. Their inheritance ruling with the Lord on His throne in the third heaven.

 

Israel - also the Ekklesia/called out ones, called out from the nations. They have two aspects to their inheritance -

- stars - prominent position in the universal heavens. (the city rulership.)

- sand - predominant position on earth. Rulership over the nations.

 

The Nations - Kings and people (under Israel) on the earth. 

 

God`s word delineates these 3 groups - `Give no offence, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the Church of God,..` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

Each group have been given the inheritance of a part of God`s great kingdom and all because of Christ`s sacrifice and all under His righteous rulership. 

And you will notice that in each realm the Lord has His throne, His authority there. So the Lord is with each rulership which are under His overall rulership from the highest. 

We can discuss the scriptures if you would like.

regards, Marilyn.

Thank you for your response, those are very serious matters and I am not going to drive in some debate.

A little more time because I did not like what I read.

A couple more questions so you get to know what I am considering and sure hope something more than beneficial will come out for everyone. 

I am thinking how it could be to have these distinct groups distance from one another before God when we know that with the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross everything seized to exist as it used to exist before. 

The Jew remained a Jew in DNA and their way of life and a Gentile according to his way of life. The Jew still was telling himself "I am not a Gentile" and they said the same think to one another.

But what about Jesus what does he have to say? Is he addressing the Jews as Jews with the same meaning as the Jews when they say "we are not Gentiles "?

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Thank you for your response, those are very serious matters and I am not going to drive in some debate.

A little more time because I did not like what I read.

A couple more questions so you get to know what I am considering and sure hope something more than beneficial will come out for everyone. 

I am thinking how it could be to have these distinct groups distance from one another before God when we know that with the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross everything seized to exist as it used to exist before. 

The Jew remained a Jew in DNA and their way of life and a Gentile according to his way of life. The Jew still was telling himself "I am not a Gentile" and they said the same think to one another.

But what about Jesus what does he have to say? Is he addressing the Jews as Jews with the same meaning as the Jews when they say "we are not Gentiles "?

 

Hi Your closest friend,

When God made the world and Adam & Eve iy was good. And yes rebellion came in but God did not abandon His purpose in making mankind to live on the earth. 9God knew all this before He made everything). That will be restored.

Then when God made the nations of the earth, (through Noah and his sons) God did not just make them for time but eternity. And all this because of Christ. 

If God was just wanting to fix everything up he would have done that straight after Adam and Eve sinned, or Cain or any time before the flood. But no, God has great purposes that He is fulfilling through Christ.

Then when Lucifer was the most marvellous angel in the highest, but also sinned and was cast out, did God forgo His plan to have righteous rulership in the angelic realm? No! But it wont be another angel. 

And because Lucifer/Satan usurped the Principalities and Powers realm, (Universal heavens) and will be cast out of there too, does that mean God will not place HIS rulership in that realm also?

God is preparing the restoration of RULERSHIP under Christ in every realm. 

God`s plans are NOT, I say NOT all about us and everything & everyone being `soup` together. We need to look carefully at God`s word and realise God is about restoring all of what He made and more - rulership by glorified man in the heavenlies, under Christ.  Utterly amazing!

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and FOR HIM. ...` (Col. 1: 16)

Marilyn. 

[Your closest friendnt]

29 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Your closest friend,

When God made the world and Adam & Eve is was good. And yes rebellion came in but God did not abandon His purpose in making mankind to live on the earth. That will be restored. Then when God made the nations of the earth, (through Noah and his sons) God did not just make them for time but eternity. And all this because of Christ. 

If God was just wanting to fix everything up he would have done that straight after Adam and Eve sinned, or Cain or any time before the flood. But no, God has great purposes that He is fulfilling through Christ.

Then when Lucifer was the most marvellous angel in the highest, but also sinned and was cast out, did God forgo His plan to have righteous rulership in the angelic realm. No. 

And because Lucifer/Satan usurped the Principalities and Powers real, (Universal heavens) and will be cast out of there too, does that mean God will not place HIS rulership in that realm also?

God is preparing the restoration of RULERSHIP under Christ in every realm. 

God`s plans are NOT, I say NOT all about us and everything & everyone being `soup` together. We need to look carefully at God`s word and realise God is about restoring all of what He made and more - rulership by glorified man in the heavenlies, under Christ.  Utterly amazing!

I try to make myself like it but how can I? When I read the bible stories I read about Noah and how he together with his Sons they survived the flood.

God did not change the destination of mankind at death with Noah or with any one of his sons.

When Noah died Hades was there to take him and keep him.

This is what mankind got from Adam. 

That's where Adam went and that's where everyone from Adam went to where Adam was.

This did not change after the flood with Noah or with anyone of his sons.

Till Abraham when God set him apart from the rest of the World while he lived and when he died. 

The first man that Hades could not claimed because God had a claim on him, while he lived and it continued when he died. 

Abraham was the first man to die with the hope that one day the Christ will descend to where he was and give him the Life and to be heir of the Inheritance of Christ. 

Jesus said that Abraham new that this day will come the last day of his Patriarchy which is the first day of Jesus Christ. 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Marilyn C]

30 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I try to make myself like it but how can I? When I read the bible stories I read about Noah and how he together with his Sons they survived the flood.

God did not change the destination of mankind at death with Noah or with any one of his sons.

When Noah died Hades was there to take him and keep him.

This is what mankind got from Adam. 

That's where Adam went and that's where everyone from Adam went to where Adam was.

This did not change after the flood with Noah or with anyone of his sons.

Till Abraham when God set him apart from the rest of the World while he lived and when he died. 

The first man that Hades could not claimed because God had a claim on him, while he lived and it continued when he died. 

 

`But Noah, being divinely warned of things not seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.` (Heb. 11: 7)

`...for God has prepared a city for them...` (Heb. 11: 16)

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city, the heavenly Jerusalem......to the spirits of just, (righteous) men made perfect...` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

`By faith ABEL...` (Heb. 11: 4)

[Your closest friendnt]

2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

`But Noah, being divinely warned of things not seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.` (Heb. 11: 7)

`...for God has prepared a city for them...` (Heb. 11: 16)

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city, the heavenly Jerusalem......to the spirits of just, (righteous) men made perfect...` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

`By faith ABEL...` (Heb. 11: 4)

Hi Marilyn, I have edited my post and have added another paragraph. 

Did Hebrews said something else in his epistles to question what I posted? No he did not say anything against but rather he went in great lengths to affirm that Abraham the Patriarch of Righteousness was looking forwards to the day of Jesus Christ when he will joint Jesus Christ, Abraham needed to also believe in Jesus Christ to be in his righteousness and in his Life and in his Inheritance the Inheritance of the Life of God in Jesus Christ. 

Abraham needed the eternal Life to have his self under the blood of Jesus Christ for the eternal Life, Abraham he needed the Life of Jesus Christ.  And the Life also includes the righteousness of Jesus Christ. 

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hi Marilyn, I have edited my post and have added another paragraph. 

Did Hebrews said something else in his epistles to question what I posted? No he did not say anything against but rather he went in great lengths to affirm that Abraham the Patriarch of Righteousness was looking forwards to the day of Jesus Christ when he will joint Jesus Christ, Abraham needed to also believe in Jesus Christ to be in his righteousness and in his Life and in his Inheritance the Inheritance of the Life of God in Jesus Christ. 

Abraham needed the eternal Life to have his self under the blood of Jesus Christ for the eternal Life, Abraham he needed the Life of Jesus Christ.  And the Life also includes the righteousness of Jesus Christ. 

Hi Your closest friendnt,

Good we agree that because of Jesus Christ we are righteous. We are blessed to know of Him and what He has done. However not all had that full revelation. If they obeyed God with the revelation that God gave them then God accounted them righteous.

But it was not till the angel told Joseph that the child was to be called Jesus did anyone know of that.

Abraham obeyed God looking for the city that God built, and thus he was accounted righteous. 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Your closest friendnt,

Good we agree that because of Jesus Christ we are righteous. We are blessed to know of Him and what He has done. However not all had that full revelation. If they obeyed God with the revelation that God gave them then God accounted them righteous.

But it was not till the angel told Joseph that the child was to be called Jesus did anyone know of that.

Abraham obeyed God looking for the city that God built, and thus he was accounted righteous. 

Hi Marilyn, Jesus Christ did not came before Abraham and at the time of Abraham.

And not at the time of Moses who never was a Captive and never served the Egyptians as their Slave. 

Moses was the only free man  from the house of Jacob who lived free  during the time of the Captivity of the Israelites to Pharaoh. 

The Egyptians said about Moses: 

He was with us he was one of our Princes he was nourish and grew up eating the bread and drinking the wine from our table till the time came to be proven that he was not one of us. 

He was with us but he was not one of us till the time came to go away from us because he was not one of us from the beginning. 

In the dessert the Lord called Moses the only free Israelite who never lived as a captive to Pharaoh and he told him.

You are an Israelite and you are free while everyone else is a captive to Pharaoh "go now and free the rest of the people from Pharaoh and the Egyptians.  

And all your family will be free together. 

God choose Moses the only free Israelite to bring freedom to  the rest of the Israelites.  

God invited Moses into his presence, the only Israelite man who was ever invited in the presence of Lord  and the Lord spoke to him face to face at the burning bush and later at mount Sinai and the Tent of the Testimony. 

Moses was a Mediator between the Lord and the Israelites. 

He was  a Mediator before Aaron was made the High Priest. 

Moses was given imputed presence before the Lord , he was given Holiness before the Lord.

Moses was given Life before the Lord God. 

He can stand in the presence of God outside the Temple and at the Entrance to the Tent of the Testimony and lived and no die.

Without the ceremonies in the book of Leviticus and the services of Aaron.

Moses was a Patriarch greater than Abraham but when God asked him to start a new nation from him MOSSES REFUSED. 

Because the offered did not include his predecessors and his immediate family and not all of his descendants will be included it will happened to his descendants what happened to the descendants of Abraham from the house of Jacob to be included at first and then to be excluded because of their disobedience to him.

In commandments not written in the Law, like their refusal to obeyed him when he told them to go and take the land of Canaan. 

Moses was greater than Abraham he was never told that his time had come to be gather to Abraham. 

Moses was a descendant from Abraham and at death like Jesus Christ had to be gathered to Abraham but God did not let Moses died and that's why he was not found or accounted in the Bossom of Abraham

But he was accounted among those God took before they died like ELIJAH. 

And both of them him and Elijah in the mount of Configuration discuss what was happening in the place they came from, that it was known to Heaven that Jesus had to suffer and die on the Cross. 

And Moses pointed to Jesus and said to the disciples: not me but him to follow pointing to Jesus Christ in his Splendor after he said that he Jesus had to die first. Even though Jesus would have to die first. Pointing to his resurrection because how else would be able to follow him.

Reminding the words Moses had told the Israelites that God later on will send someone from amongst them and to follow him in what he will tell them.  

Like at the time when Elijah was taken up the prophets could not understand what happened only Elisha understood and told them do not go look for his body because he knew that God can only take Elijah before he died.

If God had let Elijah died then Elijah will have follow in his Inheritance from Abraham and be gathered to Abraham in his Bossom and his body like A Abraham's will be given back to earth where it came from. 

They people wanted to look for their bodies like with Moses and with Elijah but they did not find any because the Lord took them alive.

And exception to the rule. 

God did not take Jesus Christ before he died.

Jesus Christ had to die first so he can follow up in his earthy Inheritance to descend to Abraham's Bossom and then to the rest of the world to bring the good news of the Gospel to everyone who had died before him. 

Everyone had to have his sins put under his blood under the blood of the Lamb including Adam and Noah and  Abraham and King David, to be partaker of his righteousness and of his Life and of his Spirit so they can be the children of God in Jesus Christ. Heirs of Jesus Christ so they always be where Jesus Christ is. 

Always...

 Jesus preached the Gospel to everyone who had died before him, everyone had to hear the Gospel, the dead first before the living.  Jesus came to set the prisoners free by giving Life to the dead to those who believed in him as he had said at the time in the Synagogue in his home town that the scripture in Isaiah 66:1 has been fulfilled in himself. 

He came to set the CAPTIVES and the Prisoners free indeed 

Any one Jesus Christ sets free he is free indeed.

Jesus Christ before he died on the Cross he said" the time has come the dead will hear my voice and those who pay heed and hear and believe will have their sins forgiven in him. And will pass from death unto Life before the living who will hear the Gospel later on from him, they ones close to him and later those who will hear the Gospel and believe from his disciples. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Your closest friendnt,

Good we agree that because of Jesus Christ we are righteous. We are blessed to know of Him and what He has done.

However not all had that full revelation. If they obeyed God with the revelation that God gave them then God accounted them righteous.

But it was not till the angel told Joseph that the child was to be called Jesus did anyone know of that. 

Abraham obeyed God looking for the city that God built, and thus he was accounted righteous. 

Hi Marilyn, we are in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, we are under his blood and our sins are forgiven. Yes we are blessed to have this Knowledge. To be considered righteous even when we are doing things contrary to the Knowledge we have been given. 

*About this statement bellow it is not easily understood, and be discussed as it is.

We should know more about each group of them to look how God proposed to considered them.

It was a different world before the Cross and a different world after the Cross. 

We have a knew Heaven and a New Earth and a new underworld beginning with . the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. 

It seems nothing is still the same since the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

The questions raised with your statement "how about those people who did that and lived like that and how about the others is very broad and not very specific to each unique situation and individual. 

The world is not so simple and every one must be looked as a unique individual as you have put and be responsible for himself  

And at the same time you have brought to the picture a righteousness that did not considered the individual faults ahead of an individual like Abraham who is been given immunity for his faults ahead of him. 

God considered Abraham as a righteous person from now on. 

And for how long? .

And is this righteousness that was upon Abraham only for the duration of this life or it  continued to remained in him after he died? 

And we need to consider what were the benefits in this Life and in the after Life for a man like Abraham. 

Who because of this imputed righteousness was set apart in this world from the rest of the people and the same must apply for him because his imputed righteousness  continued remained on him after his death.

This way setting him also apart from the rest of the dead.

He was the first man on earth with this kind of righteousness. 

Later God mentions that Issac and Jacob were counted together with Abraham. 

The Patriarch Abraham. 

Only them and not the other children of Abraham and Issac.  

Abraham did not have a Heavenly Inheritance after death and his children followed him where he was after their death and were gathered to him. 

If Abraham with the guarantee righteousness did not go to Heaven after death, can anyone boast that he went to Heaven with his/her own Righteousness. 

But we are not in the righteousness of Abraham but in the righteousness of Jesus Christ and when we die we are gather to him. We are gathered to Jesus Christ our Patriarch of the righteousness of God the Heavenly Father, we are gather to Jesus Christ and to the Heavenly Father at the time of our death. 

In a similar way as Issac and Jacob were identified with Abraham and they were gathered to him and so it is with those who identified with The Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ at the time of their death they are gathered to them where they are in Heaven. 

AMEN

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:58 PM, Josheb said:

And we, the descendants of Abraham are great people. 

There are two descendancies from Abraham. One of race, and another of grace. You only acknowledge the side of grace. Paul acknowledged both sides, while emphasizing the more important one, that of grace.

Romans 11:1 For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

By calling himself of the tribe of Benjamin, Paul acknowledged the continuance of the Israelite race as being relevant even during the era of the Gospel of grace.

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

In this passage, Paul is clearly stating that God will redeem racial Israel in the latter days, all according to the many many prophetic promises found in the OT.

To deny these things is just a subtle form of anti-Semtitism.