Separation of Body and Soul is Unbiblical.

[Your closest friendnt]

12 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Hello Starise

Yes, me must put on a incorruptible body that is not corruptible flesh.

Jesus' body was sinless and not corruptible, our body of flesh is neither and never will be. The resurrection of Jesus was symbolic of resurrection of the flesh but not yet glorified. The ascension of Christ is when He was glorified and we see that exemplified by His transfiguration and His appearance to Paul. Jesus returned to the glory he had with the Father before He was made flesh. God is not flesh he is a consuming fire!

Mat 16:27  For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 
Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.                                                             Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 
Mat 17:2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 

Act 9:3  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 
Act 9:4  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 
Act 9:5  And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 
Act 9:6  And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 

Circumcision given to Abraham was required to be acceptable to God and was a type of what was to come when God would Spiritually circumcise (Col 2:11) the flesh and then He will literally circumcise the flesh when we receive our Spiritual heavenly body. Surely you can see the need to remove this body of flesh.  

 

2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV 

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

[Your closest friendnt]

21 hours ago, Starise said:

We KNOW the body is dead and the soul lives. Aside from any of the other points made here as to HOW this all comes about.

21 hours ago, Starise said:

There is also the major consideration about what happens to a lost person in contrast to what happens to a saved person.

The first paragraph it's a truth statement. When a man dies the soul continues to live without the body. No one can escape that. At the time of death we know what happens to the body if we do not interfere with nature and attempt to prevent the decay of the body. But there are also times where we cannot do that, where it is impossible to do that as in the case where instant of the body we have the ashes of it. 

There are also times where we cannot have even a sample of the ashes of the body in extreme cases where the man's body was devoured by those birds that feed of dead flesh without making the distinction whether it is from a human or not.

And there is something else the unusual situations where a man was eaten alive by some beasts or from some flesh eating diseases, and there is cannibalism. 

Should I go any further and mention that another animal devours an animal while in the process of digesting human flesh. 

And then there is a forest fire and all the animals are burned to ashes and the wind blows and they scatter around the ashes  and some of it ends upon our food or some of it we breath.  And the circle continues, an ever ending circle. 

The fact remains that the soul of man survives it all and continues on without the body.

The soul of man has all the memories of the person it belongs to, it has the identity of the person, and cannot escape that fact that it that person and always will be that person, it cannot be another person. 

(The time that it lived together with the man of flesh is gone, in the past the man of flesh was in charge, he made the desitions influence by different variants.) 

The soulist man may perhaps able he perhaps it may be able to fool someone about his identity but it cannot fool the Judge of all to whom is accoundable for everything that happened while still in the body. 

Is that fair? 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[AandW_Rootbeer]

4Behold, all souls are Mine. Like the soul of the father, like the soul of the son they are Mine; the soul that sins, it shall die.

 

20The soul that sins, it shall die;

 

23Do I desire the death of the wicked? says the Lord God. Is it not rather in his repenting of his ways that he may live?

 

 

2 Corinthians 5: 1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

[Biblican]

21 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You are beginning your post with these words, and why?  

*There are no inconstancies in what I said,"

And why it is not said that there not inconsistencies of what I said with the bible.

In this case you should have posted what you have said and then scriptures that saw consistency and let others be the challengers. Drill you, examine what you have said with the scriptures 

Then you can say that with some humility, because no everyone has spoken yet.

Are you asking the readers to point out your inconsistencies with the scriptures.  

You post a lot and touching a lot of issues but not discussing with questions, just by making statements that have not been proven, the Jury is not going to be sold on that.

One example: the least of all.

"The devils believe in God, what they can't do is repent and admit they have sinned.

All those who are infected with the devil's disease and cannot repent cannot enter heaven " 

I was thinking to ask you for scriptures to support the above statements because they came without scripture reference but then I asked my self, why would I do that when I know that there are not scriptures to support these statements.

Those statements cannot be proven as truth statements. 

Jesus Christ came as a man to do what it was promised in Genesis 3: 

To Saved man and restored him to Life but not to the Life he had in the Garden of Eden where with his first disobedience he lost it and he passed from Life unto Death.

The Life that is promise in Genesis 3: is the Life of his Savior Jesus Christ and when someone is in the Life of his Savior when he disobeys God or when he sins he does not pass from Life unto Death in the way it happened to Adam but he remains in the Life of his Savior.

God promised a Savior only for Man this is why the one who had the Life of God had to come as a man and to die still in the Life of God for the sins of Mankind only.Saviour

And not for the Devilkind. 

The Devil kind has been Judge to eat the dust of the earth forever. No Heavenly Inheritance for him, the Inheritance of Life is only for mankind. 

James 2:19 says that the devils believe in God and they tremble. What do you think is the difference between a believing devil and us? They can't repent, which is obvious. People who can't repent, can't receive Jesus as Savior. I never said that Jesus was to be a savior for the devils. You said, "The devil kind has been judged to eat the dust of the earth forever."  The prophecies that this earth is going to be destroyed someday will be fulfilled leaving the devils and all those who follow them trapped in the cold outer darkness that Jesus' described. What you are seeing is that the devils cannot inhabit God's dimension. It is the devil's disease of pride that keeps people from repenting and receiving Jesus.  Leviathan is used as a similitude of the devil in Job, where we are told that he is king over all the children of pride."  Job 41:15,34.

[Biblican]

18 hours ago, Josheb said:

Posts say otherwise. I have already noted how and why. 

Can a sinless human enter heaven? 

Think before answering because this question was asked previously in altered wording so make sure your answers are.... consistent with each other. 

Hint: Jesus was a sinless man but he was also a sinless God; both inextricably simultaneously, not apart from each other. 

Can a sinless human enter heaven? 

There are no sinless humans, because "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God Romans 3:23. Humans cannot enter heaven unless they believe the Gospel, repent and receive Jesus as Savior. They are then unified with the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Eternal Life and when they die they will ascend with the Spirit into God's dimension.

[Biblican]

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

With sincere respect due your effort, that is the problem. Your own research is incomplete. More is needed. You entered this conversation believing - based on those two years of research - there were bodiless souls when there are no such things in scripture. This is such a foundational, fundamental fact of scripture, so plain and explicit a fact that it reveals the research woefully incomplete at best and perhaps thoroughly misguided because anything built on false premises is likely a flawed case and flawed cases lead to flawed conclusions. That's not rocket science. 

Acknowledging the new, additional information was commendable, even if it took many posts to get you to admit it. 

The same holds true with other matters like the unified use of nephesh and the complete absence of ruah in Gen. 2:9. These are real basic mistakes. They're the kind of errors that should/would prevent a conscientious person from standing on their research and boasting about the kind of Christian they are. 

So you say it all you like, Bib, but its meaningless. 

I am a very smart man according to the test we humans give for such things. I am intelligent, experienced, educated, and studied. I've got letter after my name in the areas of study we're discussing, and I tell a good story . But when I come into worthy every day I lay that stuff aside because I know there are men and women here from whom I can learn! Some days that might be you ! Today just didn't happen to be that day . There are those among us who are also intelligent, experienced, educated, learned in other ways, inspired by the Spirit, etc. from whom I may learn. Every single post exchange is a function of divine providence and if we'll only heed to that fact we might learn from it. I need only bow to that reality and put on a teachable attitude. 

Philippians 2:3
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves..."

Two years of study is nearly nothing to some of us. 

Proverbs 3:5-7
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding.  In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.  Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and turn away from evil." 

Perhaps (far be it for me to decide God's providence) you were brought to this op for the simple purpose of learning from your siblings in Worthy, for the purpose of realizing there are no disembodied or bodiless human souls in God's word so that you could move beyond what has been learned in a mere two years of study and add more time and knowledge . 

Proverbs 27:17-19
"Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.  He who tends the fig tree will eat its fruit, and he who cares for his master will be honored.  As in water face reflects face, So the heart of man reflects man." 

 

"Sharpening" rarely happens without friction. Embrace it . I, for one, was stimulated and sharpened beyond my prior knowledge, understanding and ability by this very same discussion. Study more . 

Acts 17:11
"Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."

You were misusing the definition of the word disembodied, which means a soul that has been removed from its physical body. When you said that there were no disembodied souls in the Bible what you were saying, based on the misuse of the word disembodied, was incorrect and misleading. The soul is the person of anyone and retains the characteristics of the person it was in life. The soul does not have a body, it is it's own body.

The breath of life in Genesis is not the Ruach, which the Apostle Paul makes very clear in I Corinthians 15:45.  The only human to be given life by the Ruach is Jesus which is the "life in Himself" John 5:26. Adam was made a living soul, which means the breath (nashamah) animates and gives life to the physical body enabling the soul to live as a human. The soul is a distinct entity from the body being made by God and fashioned in the womb (Isaiah 57:16,Jeremiah 38:16,1:5). When the spirit (breath) is removed from the body it dies (James 2:26) and the soul is released. This is why we preach the gospel, to save souls which enables them to ascend into God's dimension when they receive Jesus' Holy Spirit. It's not complicated and you really don't need a letter after your name to be able to understand how it all works.

[Biblican]

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yes, I keep reading that but I have yet to see anyone, including you, provide one single scriptural example of such a thing, and I have asked more than once. 

As opposed to the guy who makes claims he cannot evidence? I'll stick with the fact there are no disembodied or bodiless human souls in the Bible and if it helps to say "bodiless" instead of "disembodied" then I am happy to make that change for the sake of enhancing others' understanding to the truths of scripture. I, unlike you, can point to the evidence of a body, whereas you cannot show as single example of a bodiless soul. There is always a body of some sort so we cannot separate the body for the soul. I can also show how scripture speaks of soul and body in integrated ways along with its along with its speaking of their distinctions.

Distinction, not separation. 

 

The tripartite view is valid and useful but limited. Abusing it beyond its limits is misleading. 

You want evidence of the silver cord being broken? People die. That's evidence enough.

The word disembodied means "Lacking a body or freed from the body, incorporeal." Dictionary.com   I understand your point that the soul is not bodiless,  and I agree with that, but you are not using the correct terminology to demonstrate your point. I agree that the soul is a body, but it does not have one. It is one unit so to speak. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

55 minutes ago, Biblican said:

James 2:19 says that the devils believe in God and they tremble. What do you think is the difference between a believing devil and us? They can't repent, which is obvious. People who can't repent, can't receive Jesus as Savior. I never said that Jesus was to be a savior for the devils. You said, "The devil kind has been judged to eat the dust of the earth forever."  The prophecies that this earth is going to be destroyed someday will be fulfilled leaving the devils and all those who follow them trapped in the cold outer darkness that Jesus' described. What you are seeing is that the devils cannot inhabit God's dimension. It is the devil's disease of pride that keeps people from repenting and receiving Jesus.  Leviathan is used as a similitude of the devil in Job, where we are told that he is king over all the children of pride."  Job 41:15,34.

James 2;19 KJV 

 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

This is what James said in James 2;19.

It says " the devil believing  in one God and not they believe in God.

James says that the Devil knows that he also is subject to the judgment of God and he is trembling and that God is the same one who will also Judge mankind. 

And James says that the devils treble for that day and time. 

James did not say that about the Devil to challenge anyone to prove him wrong.

James was trying to motivate the people in his congregation into doing good works and he goes on to other matters which are not part of this discussion and are not raised at this time. In the background are but are not the main discussion in this OP.

The statements about the Devil repenting or being repenting and other matters in your post are not part of James letter. 

The Gospel is John 3:16 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” 

The above invitation is for mankind only, for everyone who ever lived and in it's own time to hear this message. 

We do not have the liberty to compare what happens to the devil when he believes and say the same thing can happen to a man when he believes that there is one God who is the Judge of all, all men who ever lived and women. And the devils.

God has appointment for everyone who believes Jesus Christ for the forgiveness for his sins the Heavens for his Inheritance which he cannot have access to it till the time he dies and gets out of the dead body whether he believes that or not. Important we are talking about a believer of Jesus Christ and that takes us after the Cross. 

I will make a statement and the truth of that statement it cannot be refuted.

When someone takes his last breath and is found with the faith of Jesus Christ the Heaven Door is open for him to go in and no one can close it. 

He has passed the judgement he is in the Life of God and his Inheritance at death is to be to where God and Jesus is in Heaven.  This is his Inheritance at the time of his death because that's how God has ordained things to be.

When God gave Jesus Christ the Heavenly Throne as his Inheritance he also gave him the Heavens for everyone who believes in his name. 

 

[Guest]

@Dennis1209 To understand Hebrews 4:12, we must understand how the Jewish people regarded body, mind, spirit and soul.

Quote

The spirit and the soul appear to be so similar that we group them together. But Hebrews 4:12 says the Word is capable of showing us the difference between the spirit and the soul. It is like a sharp sword that is able to penetrate and divide the two. The Amplified Bible puts it this way, “For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12 AMP).

This is an important concept because we look at certain scriptures and wonder who they are talking about. We read passages showing us that we are identical to Jesus in this world, God considers us pure, righteous and holy and we don’t believe it because we look to the realm of our soul and assume that God has made a mistake. We quote passages saying we are raised and seated with Christ in the heavenly realm (Ephesians 2:6) but continue to struggle with hardship in our homes. This is because we haven’t understood the differences between the spirit and the soul and this plays out in how we interpret and understand the Bible.

Source: Juli Camarin Blog Entry

I'd also like to point out the breath of God which made Man a living soul.  He was just like any other creation up to that point. 

(Genesis 1:30)  And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.  [ESV]

(Genesis 2:7)  then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.  [ESV]

This was God's perfect spirit first given to Adam and Eve, later to be squandered away with disobedience.

Quote

The born again spirit we received the moment we were saved is identical with Jesus (Romans 8, Hebrews 10:10, 14). This is how God sees us, He looks at our spirit. This is why He sees us a righteous, because the sin nature is gone. Consequently this is how the devil sees us also. He looks at us dressed in our full armor (Ephesians 6:10-18) and cannot tell the difference between us and Jesus (Isaiah 59:15-18). This is why he trembles when we are around. The spirit is truly who we are because of what Jesus did.

However, we look at ourselves through the eyes of our soul. We see where we struggle, we know the thoughts we have, we know how we mess up. So there is a huge disconnect when we read the Bible because we don’t understand who we are in the spirit and how God looks at us. Then we get frustrated thinking we need be holy and righteous when in fact we already are.

This is why this passage of scripture is so powerful because it shows us the Word of God is able to discern between the two. Knowing the difference between the spirit and the soul brings enlightenment to the scriptures because we are able to discern what part of our makeup is being talked about in passages. Paul wrote, “May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (I Thessalonians 5:23). Our spirit is already blameless, but our soul, the thoughts, attitudes and intent of the heart, needs to be renewed and reminded of who we are in the spirit so we will experience them in the physical realm as well.

Source: Juli Camarin Blog Entry

Edited December 24, 2021 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[Your closest friendnt]

8 minutes ago, Josheb said:

THINK. 

Prior to Genesis 3:6 Adam had not sinned. 

Abel was without sin when he was murdered. 

And yet he was not with the Lord.