Revelation 12:6 The Woman In The Wilderness Explained?

[tatwo]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

There is absolutely a pretrib rapture shown, WITHOUT QUESTION, for those with understanding. When YOU muster up the courage to answer my question and tell when the Church is raptured in Revelation, I will tell you where the secret pretribulation rapture is found in scripture.

 

 

The Light,

Can you define "church" for me...so that I may understand your perspective more clearly?

Tatwo...:)

[iamlamad]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:41 PM, truth7t7 said:

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

It would be simpler to use what Jesus said: 12:6 is about those living in Judea who see the abomination (probably on TV) and remember Jesus' words and FLEE for their life. Who, for the most part, live in Judea? Jews life in Judea.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Your going to be looking for that secret rapture for a long time, because it's not found in scripture

What you should have said is that YOU cannot find it. Millions of others have.

[iamlamad]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:12 AM, The Light said:

...

So no, the woman is not the remnant Church. When God tells you who the woman is and who the 144,000 are, don't you think it would be better to believe the written Word of God than drawing our own conclusions?

(Emphasis added.) Such a simple theory - but one few seem to follow. 

What did Jesus say? "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains..." Does anyone in this thread live in Judea? I think, for the most part, JEWS live in Judea, and they will be who will flee as shown in 12:6.

[iamlamad]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:00 AM, tatwo said:

Greetings,

This is a bit of a response to this forum as a whole, not just truth7t7 though I have quoted him below. The reason I quoted him is that he started the forum and has stated his thoughts multiple times...and as such kinda set the tone for the “discussion.”  

truth7t7> The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation.

truth7t7> The woman represents the "Remnant" Church as the OP clearly states, we disagree

truth7t7> The woman represents the "Remnant Church" in the wilderness, the remnant of God's heritage

truth7t7>  Scripture clearly teaches that the woman/remnant as seen below will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, Gilead

“So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” Rev 12:17

Strongs

·         woman G1135 – Guné a woman, a woman, wife, my lady.

·         rest G3062 – Masculine plural of a derivative of leipo; remaining ones -- other, which remain, remnant, residue, rest.

On this forum it has been stated that the woman is “Israel?” The woman is the “remnant church?” The woman is the “remnant?” maybe? it deserves a closer look to be sure.

Perhaps a closer look at the usage of the word “rest” in Rev. 12:7…might reveal that John is referencing that which came from the woman ”the Son, Man-Child” as the remnant… perchance an item of note?

Tatwo…

This is John's first use of "woman."

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

This is about the constellation VIRGO (the virgin) that God put in the sky to remind the world that a virgin gave birth to the Messiah.

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This use of "she" used in place of "woman" is referencing Mary, the Mother of Jesus.

... the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This is about How Satan used King Herod to attempt to murder the Messiah as a very young child.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This is the entire life of Jesus on earth in one sentence.

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This use of "woman" is as a subset of Israel (from where the Messiah came) who live in Judea and flee exactly as Jesus told them to.

¹³ And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

 

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

¹⁵ And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

¹⁶ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, 

This use of "woman" is the same subset that fled when they saw the abomination.

the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

At this time, the midpoint of the week, there is only a remnant left of those who love Jesus. Why? Because the pretrib rapture will take out the main load before the week begins.

[tatwo]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This use of "she" used in place of "woman" is referencing Mary, the Mother of Jesus.

Greetings iamlamad,

While can agree with some of what you posted…there are parts that I would like to question a bit. For instance you state;

“This use of "she" used in place of "woman" is referencing Mary, the Mother of Jesus.”

I pick this particular one because this forum is a focus on the “woman” of Rev 12…her identity is very important and may not be what you think. Your view creates some confusion, here’s why.

While theologians & historians never seem to be able to agree as to the exact date John composed the “Revelation of Jesus Christ”…their disagreement is a non-issue. However, the majority of them that I have looked at seem to agree that it was written after the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ.

Now let’s consider Rev. 1:1 the angel of the Lord speaking to John.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon [quickly, swiftly, immediately] take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,” NASB [Emphasis mine]

So, “the things which must soon take place;”  would begin to transpire now or very shortly…but up to that moment…they had not yet…remember, this is a number of years “after” the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ.

Now let’s consider Rev. 4:1, now it is the glorified Lord Himself speaking to John.

“After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after [with, among, after] these things.” NASB [Emphasis mine]

In the context of “After these things”…"these things” is surely understood as the “things” John was shown in Rev. 1:1 – 3:22? So the “things” that “must soon take place” (Rev. 1:1) look to occur immediately or quickly…they are then followed by what must take place after “these things.” (Rev. 4:1 – 22:21)?

This is giving definition to what appears to be a sequence, or a linear progression in time. Again…it is being said that, ”these things” would transpire now or soon but had not yet…it seems prudent to recognize that this encounter with John takes place some number of years after the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ.

The book of Revelation is said to have been composed by John…and that…many years after Christ Yahshua’s birth and death. What do we do with the fact that it is the resurrected, glorified Christ that is telling John “things” that are yet to take place, that these are future “things” in His plan…that the Lord Himself states as having not yet occurred.

I mean this is begging the question…why would the Lord need to reveal, in a prophetic vision of the “future - end of the age” to John, clearly cued for “future” fulfillment, completion and understanding …by pointing us to that which has already taken place? Was He really telling us, that which had already taken place, was going to come to pass again, perhaps?

In any case, John was an apostle…he was there…he would have already understood that which he knew and lived through that had come to pass…things like Mary physically giving birth, the death and spiritual resurrection of Christ. Surely John did not see this as that, again? Primarily we should understand that the Lord told John that these things were to begin to take place soon perhaps starting now and roll out into the future unto the end of the age.

Which leaves us with…if this prophetic “woman” is not Mary…then who is she?  If this “woman” who gives birth to a “Son” in Rev. 12 is not Mary…then who is this “Son” that is caught away to God and His throne?

A clue might be that “Israel” is a type of this woman, and the “Man-Child” is a type of Christ? My work here can overlay most of what you said in your post.

Tatwo…:)

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, tatwo said:

Which leaves us with…if this prophetic “woman” is not Mary…then who is she?  If this “woman” who gives birth to a “Son” in Rev. 12 is not Mary…then who is this “Son” that is caught away to God and His throne?

14. Revelation 12

Explains all of the essential elements of Rev. 12, including the Woman, the Manchild, the time in history, and the 1260 days.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

...beginning in Revelation 4, we find:

Revelation 4:1 After these things I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these things.

Everything John was shown from Revelation 4:1 onward is “after” – that is, future from – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Revelation 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus were of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:

Revelation 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces: as I also have received from my Father.

Revelation 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shep-herd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron.

Revelation 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, being the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they over-came him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any immortal angels, only to men. They can only be the ascended and empowered overcomers of Revelation 2:26, having been cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

These events take place “at the time of the end” (Dan. 11:40), the “time Michael shall stand up” (Dan. 12:1; Rev. 12:7), just prior to and during “a time of trouble such as never was,” the Great Tribulation. Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21

2) Who is the Woman?

Like the Manchild, the Woman-with-child is a mystical body. Not the Church, which is a Virgin Bride. And not the race of Israel, which is flesh-and-blood.

Western left-brain Protestant Christianity has largely ignored any concept of the Feminine Divine, even though the Adamic race was “made in Elohim’s image, male and female.” Gen. 1:27 Catholicism has carnalized the Feminine Divine into the person of Mary. Only mystical Judaism, and to some extent mystical Christianity, have spoken of the Feminine Divine.

Hebraic teachings of old say that one of the attributes of the One God is the emotional desire to form, gestate, bring forth and nurture living creatures. This tradition also says that when Adam and Eve were driven out of God’s garden into the earthly wilderness, this Divine Feminine either went with them or regularly visited them, in order to nurture her children as any mother would. The most well-known name for her is the Shekhinah, the feminine Presence/form of the Divine.

This mystical Woman/mother – emotionally bound to the nurturing of her children, and to their upbringing in wisdom, righteousness, and maturity – is spoken of in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 19:2 What is thy [Israelʼs] mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions. … 10 Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood [the place of the soul, Lev. 17:11], planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters. 11 And she had strong rods for the scepters of them that bore rule, and her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appear-ed in her height with the multitude of her branches. 12 But she was plucked up in fury, she was cast down to the ground, and the east wind dried up her fruit: her strong rods were broken and withered; the fire consumed them. 13 And now she is planted in the wilderness, in a dry and thirsty ground.

In Revelation 12’s account of the End Times, the Woman again goes “into the wilderness” when her offspring are driven out once more. Rev. 12:6, 14-17; Luke 21:36

[truth7t7]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is John's first use of "woman."

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

This is about the constellation VIRGO (the virgin) that God put in the sky to remind the world that a virgin gave birth to the Messiah.

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This use of "she" used in place of "woman" is referencing Mary, the Mother of Jesus.

... the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This is about How Satan used King Herod to attempt to murder the Messiah as a very young child.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This is the entire life of Jesus on earth in one sentence.

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This use of "woman" is as a subset of Israel (from where the Messiah came) who live in Judea and flee exactly as Jesus told them to.

¹³ And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

 

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

¹⁵ And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

¹⁶ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, 

This use of "woman" is the same subset that fled when they saw the abomination.

the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

At this time, the midpoint of the week, there is only a remnant left of those who love Jesus. Why? Because the pretrib rapture will take out the main load before the week begins.

I disagree, a pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven is found no place in scripture

You can find it in John N. Darby's book on fables and fairy tales

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

[tatwo]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

I disagree, a pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven is found no place in scripture

You can find it in John N. Darby's book on fables and fairy tales

With the way things are progressing globally...depending upon how you see the world around you today...billions of people are neck deep in "tribulation" (persecution, affliction, distress) now...more than ever and rapidly increasing.

I am discerning a deep sense of fear in many of my outer court relationships...terror...fear, some have strangely died...unexpectedly, leaving families without key members...it distressing to be sure. 

Tatwo   

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

With the way things are progressing globally...depending upon how you see the world around you today...billions of people are neck deep in "tribulation" (persecution, affliction, distress) now...more than ever and rapidly increasing.

I am discerning a deep sense of fear in many of my outer court relationships...terror...fear, some have strangely died...unexpectedly, leaving families without key members...it distressing to be sure. 

Tatwo   

There has been tribulation and distress throughout history

Look at the many martyrs at the hands of Roman Catholicism in the dark ages

Look at reformer Zwingli, murdering Christian's for being rebaptized

Look at world war II with 70 million casualties 

And all this dosent prove a pre-trib rapture exists in scripture, because it doesn't 

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord