False teachers

[Thornbird]

10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The point of parables is they focus on literal things to illustrate literal situations. As Jesus Himself warned, not everyone is willing to be edified by them to modify their attitude, behaviour, and character. 

Jesus said he taught in parables because not everyone was meant to understand the good news message and be saved.

They did reach those whom God intended to understand them.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Thornbird said:

Jesus said he taught in parables because not everyone was meant to understand the good news message and be saved.

They did reach those whom God intended to understand them.

Yes--and later He explained the Truth to His disciples and continued to do so further through the Apostles after Pentecost...and so we have the Bible.

:-)

[Thornbird]

10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The point of parables is they focus on literal things to illustrate literal situations. As Jesus Himself warned, not everyone is willing to be edified by them to modify their attitude, behaviour, and character. 

Jesus said he taught in parables because not everyone was meant to understand the good news message and be saved.

They did reach those whom God intended to understand them.

[Starise]

By placing ourselves under a teacher we allow them to speak to us. This requires total trust. In order to have total trust in them we need to investigate them as much as possible. 

What is their background? How good are they at actually teaching? Some people who think they are teachers can't get a point across.

Remember, the people with the highest wisdom and intelligence usually say the least. When they do speak they really have something to say. A person who pulls endless data and seems to go around in circles is not really a good teacher.

There are preachers, teachers and scholars. I hate to say this but I have sat under men in the past that literally put me to sleep every Sunday. They were wonderful human beings, but every time they spoke it sounded like a college lecture. For this we need a gifted preacher.

Teachers investigate and learn because it is an internal interest they have. not so they can take what they know and impress someone on a message board or in a class room. There are interesting gifted teachers and boring lecturers there as well. The child of God should already have a keen interest in the word, so going to a Sunday School class should be a real treat for anyone interested in the word.

We are told to STUDY to show ourselves approved in 2 Timothy. The responsibility does not lay on the teacher only. I see a true teacher as more of a guide. Not a person who only desires to indoctrinate. They guide us, they open doors for us. Foremost a true teacher is a servant. Not a smug person who takes great joy in their position and sees it as something they can Lord over other men.

Make no mistake. All preachers and teachers will be held to a high standard of accountability and awarded one day accordingly. A true teacher does their very best to leave bias at the door and ONLY studies what the bible says.

A true teacher uses their gifts in love. Why did Jesus select a few fishermen for disciples? I think it was because there wasn't anything in them to beat down. They were common men. All the glory went to the Lord. Paul was educated. Paul was given a thorn in the flesh. Ever wonder why?

Men build imaginary mountains to stand on over others. Jesus comes along and takes it all away. Truly God works in mysterious ways. This is intentional.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Starise

[Thornbird]

39 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yes--and later He explained the Truth to His disciples and continued to do so further through the Apostles after Pentecost...and so we have the Bible.

:-)

Oookayyyyy.

[GandalfTheWise]

@Starise   Very good post.

I think too that in the best teachers both the message and the messenger are solid.  A solid message is extensive knowledge and experience built into understanding that grows into wisdom.  A solid messenger is one in whom the fruit of the Spirit is readily apparent and who is capable of explaining the message to hearers in a variety of ways that get the main points across.

 

[B-B]

1 hour ago, Thornbird said:

Do you include yourself amid that flock?

It was an ‘in general statement’.. ie all, meaning all inclusive, as in no-one individual person 😁

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

I completely agree. This is why it is so odd that some would use reliance on God and His use of His Son's body so disparately, especially to impugn others in that body. 

I makes them false teachers . 
 

My inclination is to first say it takes time to grow. All, or nearly all, of the leaders God chose had to go through periods of training, testing, learning, etc. This is implicit in Paul's comments "by now" when speaking about milk versus meat. When I read believers indict the Church I view that as a bad ecclesiology, a product of the very thing about which they are complaining. When I read believers complaining about congregations not doing a good job I wonder why they stay is such congregations and if not there then how it is they know of such gatherings. Furthermore, no one can stand before God and say, "The congregations were not very good at maturing me." That's a scorch mark where a person used to stand waiting to happen . All of it can be symptomatic of the very thing reportedly disdained: immaturity and/or false teaching! 

I am also wary anytime I read/hear broad, overgeneralized statements about what others do or don't do. It too is a sign of spiritual immaturity and likely a by-product of bad if not false teaching because bad teachers need enemies. Gotta have a bad guy in order to be a good guy and when teachers start indicting those inside the body we should all start asking questions. Evidence proves the case, and that evidence should be firmly rooted in scripture, not sectarianism or opinion. 

One point I'd like to make is that not everyone who matures is gifted by God to be a "leader" in the church.   Regardless of one's giftings, we are all called to grow up and mature.  Spiritual maturity is not the exclusive purview of "leaders".  Similarly we must not assume that just because someone has leadership gifts that they are spiritually mature.

Anyone with eyes to see can see the condition of the evangelical church at large today.  I asked the Lord why it is that what we call "churches" in general always seem to bring the life of God to death (that has been both my observation and experience)....His answer came in a word...."artificial", ie, man-made.  We've departed from the simplicity of Christ and placed men in charge where our invisible Head should be (craving flesh and blood kings like the pagans have....ie, King Sauls)  Paul rightly said that when he departs, grievous wolves would come in, not sparing the flock.  I guess that really has been the situation with the church ever since....but I believe God uses it to prune His vineyard.

Scary to tell new believers they need to find a "local church" to be part of...it might be better that they seek the Lord and learn to hear His voice and get to know scripture well before starting to be influenced by the teachings of others.  That way they would be better situated to test what is being taught.  I don't know what the Lord will do, whether this is the beginning of the end, as in "the falling away", or whether He will revive the church, but I pray often for the latter.

Something to think about brother....when Israel of old (the church's ensample) had prospered and forgotten God, becoming "at ease in Zion" and falling into worldliness and even paganism, were those who took note of it and tried to call her back to the Lord immature?

[Heleadethme]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:22 AM, B-B said:

 @Heleadethme😊

Thank you for your replies, 😀

Sorry, what I meant by the posting of the Scriptures, was to show that yes, we certainly do have a responsibility as disciples, to grow in our understanding, and to be able to disciple others, (to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord).

However, what I was also trying to get across was that the Lord has also specifically given the gift of teaching to some. Some, are called to be Pastors, some are called to the official office of Evangelist, and some (not all) are called to teach.

Therefore not all are given the gift of teaching. 

Sorry I missed your point.  I agree.  It might be that those who "by now ought to be teachers" - since that seems to be addressed to a whole group in general - was not necessarily addressing only those with teaching gifts, but maybe just in the sense of being mature enough to have edifying things to share with others.  Everyone has been gifted with something and as we grow and mature we can be more edifying in sharing or "teaching" what the Lord gives us, just in simplicity and not necessarily in any office.

1Co 14:26

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

1Co 12:6-7

And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

 

I have a vision of "church" that is not mainstream.  People often don't grow in churches because they are not allowed to by those who would lord it over them.  Hope this isn't wandering too far off your point.  

 

 

[Heleadethme]

33 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I completely agree. 

Yes, and anyone who has read their Bible understands it is no messier and imperfect today than it was in the first century. Anyone with knowledge of Christian or Church history also knows there have been periods of times when health and illness increased and waned in the Church, reform and restoration attempts were made that invariably 1) improved thought, doctrine, and practice among some and further fractured the Church in general. It's an historical paradox that "reform" and "restoration" brought fragmentation and division, not unity and greater orthodoxy. 

We are currently still suffering the adverse consequences of experientialism and Dispensationalism that became popular in the 19th century. Those are ones constantly judging the Church as an inherent part of their theology!  Yet they are also the ones in the Church who foment the most numerous teachers of falsehood in both content and practice. The accusers need a mirror. 

In the NT era there were converts to the Church who came from religions were sex, gluttony, and other practices elevated to hedonism were the norm. One man was having sex with his father's wife (presumably not the man's mother ). and no one in the Church did anything about it!!!! Sounds like Dispensational Premillennialism to me! So when the "evangelical church" is indicted I say, "No, it is not the whole evangelical Church; it's the section of the Church that has a theology of a corrupt Church that is in bad condition." 

And anyone can see it.

If they look. 

The accusers need a mirror. 

 

The very fact they divide the Church into groups is part of the problem to be solved: There is only one Church. It is those called out, the body of Christ, and its condition is no better or worse than it has always been. 

 

 

Study up on the restoration movements of the 1800s. Those are the leaders who changed everything for the Church, or at least their little but growing segment of it. That movement was founded upon a few basic beliefs that included the belief the Church was corrupt, they knew what was right and how to get the Church back to (their view of) the New Testament era Church, and it had to been done real soon because the apocalypse was coming. This is when sects/denominations/cults like the Church of Christ, the Dispensationalist congregations, the Seventh Day Adventists, the Jehovah Witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints arose. John Darby literally invented an entirely new way of reading scripture (hermeneutic), and an entirely new theology. This was true of lesser degrees of folks like Alexander Campbell and greater degrees of folks like Joseph Smith. Every single one of them claimed to be the true Church. 

They were all false teachers. Not a single prediction they ever asserted came true. Not a single one of those sects ended up being better behaved than anyone else, and often worse. 

The Church as a whole is NOT worse than those guys. But there is a section of believers - genuinely redeemed and regenerate believers in the resurrected Son of God - who follow a plethora of false teachers and they think the Church is in bad condition when it is their teacher who are the false teachers. 
 

I believe I have already answered that question: YES! Nearly all, if not all, the leaders of Old and New had a period of learning, testing, maturing before any restoration occurred. Gideon tried to hide in an apple barrel!!!!! The deceit inherent in the belief and practice a person can hide from God is a decidedly immature condition. 

 

Christ gave some to the Church for the purpose of unifying and maturing the believers (Eph. 4). 

 

Think about that because if those leaders unified and matured the Church in one generation there might be no need for future generations of leaders. Do you think the Ephesians 4 text is a one-time gift? Or does Christ continue to gift leaders to the Church so that every generation is unified and matured and grows into Christ-likeness? 

The accusers need a mirror. 

 

So when you turn on your radio and hear a preacher indicting the body of Christ realize he is part of the problem because he is teaching a false ecclesiology. 

Things go awry when man takes things into his own hands.  That's why I wouldn't advocate for "reforming" the church, only that we each individually start "being" the church, in the simplicity of Christ.  Look at His example when He walked the earth....since we are of His Body.

There are greater and lesser gifts, yes.  But there is to be no schism in the Body between them.  Everyone whether greater or lesser just do their part according as the Lord leads by His Spirit at the Head of His Body, in the simplicity of Christ.....letting the left hand not know what the right hand is doing.

1Co 12:14-25

For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body?

But now are they many members, yet but one body.

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Heleadethme