He that leadeth into captivity into captivity shall they go ???

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Before any0one answers that question let me recommend the Old Testament prophesieces being referenced in the passage be examined (such as Jeremiah 14 and 43 ). Remember: There are over 340 OT references in Revelation. The book will not be correctly understood if those references are ignored. 

Anything in scripture could apply to any number of people. Is Rev. 13:10 is about those expressed in the op? 

No. 

No. 

No. 

 

Revelation 1:1-3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bondservants, the things which must take place quickly; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bondservant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation 1:19
"Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

What is it in the text of Revelation 13 that leads you to think the verse has anything to do with the "NWO pawns" and those who might arrest them? Please be specific. 

Pretty hard for Preterist to interpret the Revelation, when they have a predetermined 1st century fulfillment "Bias" hanging over their heads

[truth7t7]

18 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Nice red herring.

 

Digressive rants about boogie men intended to avoid what God's word actually states don't bear fruit. Scripture states what scripture states. Now, can a single word I posted be proved wrong, or not? If so, then do so. If not, then either accept it or move one.

You dont believe the Revelation is yet future, you believe it took place in the 1st century

Yes the Beast of Revelation 13 is a future literal human man

Yes the false prophet is a future literal human man

Yes the two witnesses of Revelation chapter 11 will be future literal prophets returned, bringing literal plagues, upon a literal world

Yes you deny that mentioned as future literal

Edited January 23, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

36 minutes ago, Josheb said:

What is it in the text of Revelation 13 that leads you to think the verse has anything to do with the "NWO pawns" and those who might arrest them? Please be specific.  

 

 

Daniel 12:4 KJV 
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Revelation 22:10 KJV 
And he saith unto me, "Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand."

 

That is what the scriptures state. 

You speak of Revelation chapter 13, this is directly related to your question

This chapter speaks of (The Beast) do you believe this will be a literal human man, please explain?

Do you believe (The Beast) is future?

Edited January 23, 2022 by truth7t7

[Last Daze]

22 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree, Both Accounts Below Are The Same Event Of Making War And Overcoming

The "Saints" overcome and killed are the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation chapter 11, not Christian believers as you suggest

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony, they will be overcome and killed, as the final hours of earth's existence unfolds

Revelation 13:7KJV

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Don't forget Daniel 7:

• I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.  Daniel 7:21-22

While the two witnesses are saints, they are certainly not the only saints.  According to your logic, the two witnesses are the only ones to take possession of the kingdom?  The fact that they are overcome does not preclude a larger group of saints from being overcome also.  Context is key.  Phrase matching is not.

[truth7t7]

17 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Don't forget Daniel 7:

• I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.  Daniel 7:21-22

While the two witnesses are saints, they are certainly not the only saints.  According to your logic, the two witnesses are the only ones to take possession of the kingdom?  The fact that they are overcome does not preclude a larger group of saints from being overcome also.  Context is key.  Phrase matching is not.

Daniel 7 and Revelation 11 is referencing the exact same (Saints/Two Witnesses) being overcome by the very same (Horn/Beast), and the exact same saints possessing the kingdom at the 7th trump, he shall reign for ever and ever

A Parallel reading of the same exact future event

Daniel 7:21-22KJV

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Revelation 11:7 & 15KJV

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

On 1/22/2022 at 4:46 PM, Josheb said:

Before any0one answers that question let me recommend the Old Testament prophesieces being referenced in the passage be examined (such as Jeremiah 14 and 43 ). Remember: There are over 340 OT references in Revelation. The book will not be correctly understood if those references are ignored. 

Anything in scripture could apply to any number of people. Is Rev. 13:10 is about those expressed in the op? 

No. 

No. 

No. 

 

Revelation 1:1-3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bondservants, the things which must take place quickly; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bondservant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation 1:19
"Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

What is it in the text of Revelation 13 that leads you to think the verse has anything to do with the "NWO pawns" and those who might arrest them? Please be specific. 

Jeremiah 14/43 have no relationship to the Revelation as per my observation, please explain your claim of connection?

[truth7t7]

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

Wow. 

Revelation 1:1-3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bondservants, the things which must take place quickly; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,  who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand..............  Revelation 1:17-20 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.  Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.  "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches..................................... 

 

Please give an explanation to your wow?

Posting scripture dosent explain your intent, neither does the expression wow?

[missmuffet]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:31 PM, R. Hartono said:

What is the meaning of the above Rev 13:10 ?

Could it apply to the people who organize resistance against government authorities that support the beast one world government ? By arresting and charging NWO pawns for violating their nation's sovereignity ? And put the traitors of their nation who support NWO into jail ?

Which means their resistance against NWO supporting government and police officers watching citizens will be put into captivity later ? 

It deals with the future world government in the 7 year tribulation. The government will be empowered by Satan. Its primary objective will be to worship Satan. 

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

 

Wow. 

Revelation 1:1-3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bondservants, the things which must take place quickly; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,  who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand..............  Revelation 1:17-20 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.  Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.  "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches..................................... 

Revelation 13:1-10
And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.  And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.  I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;  they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"  There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.  And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.  It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.  All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.  If anyone has an ear, let him hear.  If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. 

 

The black-colored text in bold-face is the verse about which this op inquires. That verse occurs within the already-explicitly-stated-and-established-by-God context the events described happening quickly because the time was then at hand, and some of the events being already in the past, some happening at the time of the revelation, and some of them happening thereafter. 

Now as to Jeremiah 14 and 43 I will have to correct my earlier numbering because it is Jeremiah chapter 15, not chapter 14, Jesus is quoting in Rev. 13:10. Revelation 13:12 says, "If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed". 

Jeremiah 15:1-2
Then the LORD said to me, "Even though Moses and Samuel were to stand before Me, My heart would not be with this people; send them away from My presence and let them go!  "And it shall be that when they say to you, 'Where should we go?' then you are to tell them, 'Thus says the LORD: "Those destined for death, to death; And those destined for the sword, to the sword; And those destined for famine, to famine; And those destined for captivity, to captivity."'

Similarly, Jeremiah 43: states, 

Jeremiah 43:8-11
Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah in Tahpanhes, saying,  "Take some large stones in your hands and hide them in the mortar in the brick terrace which is at the entrance of Pharaoh's palace in Tahpanhes, in the sight of some of the Jews;  and say to them, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "Behold, I am going to send and get Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and I am going to set his throne right over these stones that I have hidden; and he will spread his canopy over them.  "He will also come and strike the land of Egypt; those who are meant for death will be given over to death, and those for captivity to captivity, and those for the sword to the sword. 

Captivity
Sword
Famine
Death

These themes are not exclusive to or limited to Jeremiah (or Daniel or John's Revelation). They run through all the prophets, but it is Jeremiah Jesus is quoting in Revelation 13. Notice also the Revelation 13 text speaks about "the saints" and their faith, not Israel. We also know Daniel referenced Jeremiah because Daniel explicitly tells us so: 

Daniel 9:1-2
In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans—  in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

 

All the prophecies of Daniel 9-12 are explicitly couched in his effort to understand Jeremiah's "completion of the desolation of Jerusalem." Daniel was reading Jeremiah. Several centuries later Jesus quotes Jeremiah. There are in fact several references to the prophets in the first ten verses of Revelation. The opening verse mentions the beast of ten horns. This is traight out of Daniel and the text of Daniel 7. Almost on a daily basis in this forum and others we read Christians wondering about the identity of the beast. It's a pecular curiosity because the book of Daniel identifies the beast. 

 

Daniel 7:1-28 (excerpted for the sake of space)
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel saw a dream and visions in his mind as he lay on his bed; then he wrote the dream down and related the following summary of it.  Daniel said, "I was looking in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea.  And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion.... another beast, a second one, resembling a bear..... and behold, another one, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird; the beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it. After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.... I kept looking until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow and the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames... I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire.... I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. And to him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. As for me, Daniel, my spirit was distressed within me, and the visions in my mind kept alarming me.  I approached one of those who were standing by and began asking him the exact meaning of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things:  'These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.  ~'But the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come.'  "Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet,  and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.  "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom. Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.  'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 'But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever.  ~'Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.' At this point the revelation ended. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts were greatly alarming me and my face grew pale, but I kept the matter to myself." 

 

According to Daniel the beast with ten horns is a kingdom, not a person. According to Daniel these events occurred when the one like the son of man is given all dominion and authority . Reve. 13:1 is about a kingdom of the earth. Rev. 13:2 mentions the other beasts, the leopard and the bear. Verse three mentions the seemingly fatal head wound. Daniel's beast suffers a non-fatal head wound. The kingdom that is the beast suffers a seemingly fatal head wound.  Verse 4 = People worship the dragon because of the authority of the beast (which has a certain irony to it ). Verse 5 speaks of 42 months, which in a Hebraic calendar of 30 days comes out to 1260 days (42x30=1260) and we find the 1260 days in Daniel 12, which..... the angel of the Lord explains in response to Daniel's explicit request to understand the completion of the desolation of Jerusalem found in Jerusalem. And, for the sake of brevity , I'll close with the "Whoever has ears, let him hear," of Rev. 13:9, which can be tied to several prior mentions found throughout the gospels and the "ever hearing but never understanding" also found throughout the gospels, Acts, and Paul. This is a reference to Deuteronomy 29:4 and Isaiah 6:9, which - according to Jesus - came true in the gospel era. 

Scripture says otherwise. 

 

There is no parallel teaching between Revelation 13:10 and Jeremiah 15/43 as you claim

Jeremiah surrounds Israel going into captivity by the sword, while Revelation 13:10 is showing Gods divine protection of the Church during the future tribulation that you believe took place in the 1st century

Your claim is apple's and oranges, no connection whatsoever

Gods divine protection of the Church below, if a person moves to jail or kill the believer, they in return will be jailed or killed, it's that simple

Revelation 13:9-10KJV

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

25 minutes ago, Josheb said:

     

Most of what I posted were connections the scriptures themselves make. I did not add a single word to any of them. The evidence has now been twice provided so the dissent, "No it isn't," amounts to a baseles argument that will end in the nonsense of, "Yes, it is." "No, it's not." "Yes, it is." "No, it's not."  "Yes, it is." "No, it's not."  "Yes, it is." "No, it's not."  "Yes, it is." "No, it's not." And I don't do that. I have provided the evidence proving the connections between Revelation 13:10 and Jeremiah and Daniel (and others). If you disagree you are invited to do likewise to prove your position. Prove Revelation 13:10 has nothing to do with Jeremiah. 

 

Waiting....   

Is all you have done is a word search and tried to bring association

As stated Jeremiah 15/43 have absolutely no relationship to Revelation 13:10, "None"

Jeremiah 15 is speaking about Israel and captivity, while 43 is speaking about Nebuchadnezzar

Revelation 13:10 is speaking about divine protection of the Church during the future tribulation, your claims are apples and oranges

Gods divine protection of the Church below, if a person moves to jail or kill the believer, they in return will be jailed or killed, it's that simple

Revelation 13:9-10KJV

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7