The Rapture Propaganda Of The 70's-80's A Theif In The Night Series

[The Light]

21 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We agree light Matthew 24 is "Future"

The great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 is future, and the likes of World War II with 70 million casualties isnt comparable to what's coming in the future

Josheb is Preterist in his eschatology, and yes they believe Daniel's AOD and Great Tribulation took place in 1st Century Jerusalem in Romes destruction, namely 70AD

Preterism in 70AD fulfillment is a farce, just as a pre-trib rapture is a farce

A little typing error, there. But I got what you are trying to say. Just as a pretrib rapture is a force.

[truth7t7]

30 minutes ago, The Light said:

A little typing error, there. But I got what you are trying to say. Just as a pretrib rapture is a force.

A Pre-Trib rapture is a force?

That would be equivalent to saying the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus is a force

Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7

[Andriya]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:27 AM, truth7t7 said:

So you can better understand the propaganda surrounding the pre-trib rapture, in the 70's-80's they created several low budget movies to display the pre-trib teaching

That could have been a CIA psyop.

What struck me recently while reading the Revelation is one thing concerning Rapture.

The Revelation of John seems to be divided into different narratives. The first division is that into the seven epistles on the one hand and the events revealed in heaven on the other hand. The former narrative concerns contemporary things, the latter concerns the latter days.

Now to the heavenly vision. The heavenly vision can be further divided into the following narratives. 1st narrative: The seal judgments. 2nd narrative: The trumpet judgements. 3rd narrative: All that can be read in chapters 10 to 19. 4th narrative: The bowl judgments.

Concerning the narrative of the seal judgments: On reading what is written there, I am reminded of Jesus' statement in Mk 13:7: “And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. This must take place, but the end is not yet.“ Those things related there (rumors of wars, diseases etc.) has occurred throughout human history after the resurrection until now.

The distress described by the trumpet judgments and the things described in chapters 10 to 19 as well as the bowl judgments seem to be much worse, so it could be the description of the great end-time distress of Mt 24:21: “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.“

The question arises: Will the Antichrist defeat the famous two witnesses (cf. Rev. chapter 11) before this great distress, after it, during it or will it be interrupted by the reign of the Antichrist? This question remains unanswered.

Yet one thing can be gathered from Revelation - only when an angel blows the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19) will the believers behold God, and this event is described in parallel with Revelation 10:6 (the final judgement) as well as with the trumpet announcing what the Christians call Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16: “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.“

After all, in view of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and also of Mt 25:1-13 I do think that there will be a Rapture, but I do not think that it will take place long before the Final Judgement as it is stated in Revelation 10:6 that there will be “no more delay“. Thus I assume that the so called “Rapture“ will take place exactly at the time of the Final Judgement - the Rapture and the Final Judgement seem to happen synchronously. As regards Mt. 24:34 (“this generation“), the question arises what the term “generation“ means. The Greek term for “generation“ is genea, and this can also mean “nation“, “race“ etc. Maybe it isn't a term denoting contemporary people but the Church or the Kingdom of God.

[truth7t7]

14 minutes ago, Andriya said:

That could have been a CIA psyop.

What struck me recently while reading the Revelation is one thing concerning Rapture.

The Revelation of John seems to be divided into different narratives. The first division is that into the seven epistles on the one hand and the events revealed in heaven on the other hand. The former narrative concerns contemporary things, the latter concerns the latter days.

Now to the heavenly vision. The heavenly vision can be further divided into the following narratives. 1st narrative: The seal judgments. 2nd narrative: The trumpet judgements. 3rd narrative: All that can be read in chapters 10 to 19. 4th narrative: The bowl judgments.

Concerning the narrative of the seal judgments: On reading what is written there, I am reminded of Jesus' statement in Mk 13:7: “And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. This must take place, but the end is not yet.“ Those things related there (rumors of wars, diseases etc.) has occurred throughout human history after the resurrection until now.

The distress described by the trumpet judgments and the things described in chapters 10 to 19 as well as the bowl judgments seem to be much worse, so it could be the description of the great end-time distress of Mt 24:21: “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.“

The question arises: Will the Antichrist defeat the famous two witnesses (cf. Rev. chapter 11) before this great distress, after it, during it or will it be interrupted by the reign of the Antichrist? This question remains unanswered.

Yet one thing can be gathered from Revelation - only when an angel blows the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19) will the believers behold God, and this event is described in parallel with Revelation 10:6 (the final judgement) as well as with the trumpet announcing what the Christians call Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16: “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.“

After all, in view of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and also of Mt 25:1-13 I do think that there will be a Rapture, but I do not think that it will take place long before the Final Judgement as it is stated in Revelation 10:6 that there will be “no more delay“. Thus I assume that the so called “Rapture“ will take place exactly at the time of the Final Judgement - the Rapture and the Final Judgement seem to happen synchronously. As regards Mt. 24:34 (“this generation“), the question arises what the term “generation“ means. The Greek term for “generation“ is genea, and this can also mean “nation“, “race“ etc. Maybe it isn't a term denoting contemporary people but the Church or the Kingdom of God.

I fully agree, the (Catching Up/Rapture) takes place at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the final judgement

Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

A Pre-Trib rapture is a force?

That would be equivalent to saying the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus is a force

No. It's more equivalent to Matthew 24:4

4 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[Andriya]

The question is what is meant by the term "hour" in Matthew 24:44. Is it 60 minutes or is it a longer period? If the latter is the case, one can say that the "hour" may begin all of a sudden, but when that time has finally arrived, one will realise that the second coming is imminent. This goes with Matthew 24:33: "So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates."

[luigi]

Those low budget pre tribulation advocating movies have sure caused many to believe contrary to the Word.

[Last Daze]

7 hours ago, Andriya said:

Concerning the narrative of the seal judgments

The seals reveal a sequencing of events.  They are never referred to as judgments.  The term "seal judgments" is an embellishment that pretribbers favor.  They tend to cast everything that pertains to the latter days as God's judgment and wrath to help explain their view.

[Montana Marv]

21 hours ago, Josheb said:

And Marv, you are talking past me, not with me. Most of what you've posted has nothing to do with what I was posting. It is non sequitur

Cannot talk with you, Your premise is wrong.  So I to talk beyond you.

Matt 24:1,2 is about 70 AD. That is all.  Now everything mentioned after this is past 70 AD.  The "You" is those individuals who see all these things happening.  The Disciples saw none of these thing happening.  The Disciples asked two questions.  What and When.  And Christ described the circumstances in the future.  None of which closely resembles what happened in 70 AD.

18 hours ago, Josheb said:

No one in the 21st century is mentioned in your response. I'm therefore going to make my request again: Tell me where you see anyone in the 21st century mentioned in Matthew 24.

For many will come in my name, claiming I am the Messiah.  been going on for over 2000 years.  You will hear of wars and rumors of wars; The thing is during the time of the Disciples, Rome was in control.  The same with the Apostles, Rome was in control. So what wars and rumors of wars did these Apostle hear about.  News did not travel very fast then.  Now, news travel very, very fast.  It happens and we know about it.

Nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: again what nations and kingdoms did these Apostles hear about.  What countries were they.  Like you to answer.

There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.  Which places did they happen?  News traveled slow. Where were these earthquakes the Apostles knew about, Were they in the Americas, How about the Pacific Rim.  They did not.  These are the beginning of birth pains.  So you see, 70 AD falls flat on its face, just as Dagon did in Samuel 5.

This Century is the only time where wars and rumors of wars, Nation against nation, and Kingdom against kingdom along with famines and earthquakes is various places can be heard of or attainable.  Didn't happen in the 1st Century.

Name 5 earthquakes across the globe that the Apostles new about?  We know about them minutes after they happen.

No one in the 1st Century is mentioned in Matt 24:15-19.  No one in the 1st Century is mentioned in verses 4-14.  So when was this gospel of the kingdom preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations.  How many nations are there?

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Non sequitur. 

The scriptures state what the scriptures state. I have posted what the scriptures state. I have posted whaat the sciptures actually state and asked every to consider the scriptures' statements as stated. Nothing more. Preterism is irrelevant. Repeating the same old boogie man argument is another lame argument ad nauseam. Address what the scriptures state, not what they are often made to say differently than what is stated. 

• Jesus was speaking to the disciples about the disciples. 
• Jesus was answering their specific questions. 
• He told them they would be delivered to tribulation. 
• He said the day and hour were unknown but it would happen in their generation.
• The "this generation" of that passage is conjugated in the near demonstrative and the near demonstrative conjugation prohibits a far-distant-in-the-future interpretation.
• Jesus said the tribulation would worse that anyone had or would ever see. 
• Jesus also said the judgment would be worse than Sodom.
• Jesus said those taken away would be destroyed.

 

These and other statements are taken directly form the text of scripture and believed exactly as written. After several pages of posts not a single point I just listed has been refuted. They have been disputed, but not refuted. Extra-biblical eschatologies have absolutely nothing to do with my posts. They may drive your posts and others' posts but all I have done is repeatedly point everyone to what the texts actually state. 

 

And because my posts are now, once again, being treated with ad nauseam I'll be moving on. I encourage everyone to read the scriptures as written, accept them as written, and believe what is stated. 

The day and hour no man knows is "Future" and this represents the Lords return

A "Future Generation" that will be eyewitnesses of this return, as you teach and believe this Generation "was" fulfilled in the 1st century

The Preterist Eschatology is a rubber ruler, the signs weren't seen in the 1st century, and the Lord hasn't returned to the Generation described, it's a "Future Generation" unfulfilled

"This Generation" not "Your Generation"

Matthew 24:33-36KJV

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7