The Ten Virgins

[kenny2212]

4 minutes ago, appy said:

In the Matthew 25 passages, The wise virgins and the oil; is a representation of a person whose heart is truly regenerated and has the Holy Spirit within them. Without the Holy Spirit, no one is ready for the return of Jesus. Saving faith in Jesus Christ will manifest itself in every aspect of our lives. The fruit of the Spirit will begin to show. A desire for greater holiness and less sin will be apparent.

The foolish virgins, is a representation of people who enjoy the benefits of the Christian community without true love for Christ. Such are people who have an outward profession and belief. But the necessary grace isn’t there. They have built a religious house, but they have no real relationship with God. They are not ready for Christ's return by their unbelief in the life, death and risen Savior. In other words, they are Christians in name only.

The request of oil is something that none of us can transfer to other people. Salvation is non-transferable. You cannot transfer any part of your salvation to other people. Each person must make the choice for Christ on his or her own. The person who truly heeds the gospel message is a person who is exercising wisdom and is ready and waiting for he or she has a true love for Christ. They truly believe the gospel message, and have put their faith and trust in Christ. They have an appetite for God’s Word and God’s will in their lives. They exhibit genuine fruits of the Holy Spirit, that can be seen.

 

True, appy.

[AdHoc]

On 3/1/2022 at 4:41 PM, kenny2212 said:

Quick question - Will absolutely everyone who's a Christian(every person who calls God "Father" - Galatians 4:6) be raptured at the time of the rapture? These Christians contrast "Christians" referred to in Matthew 7:21-23. 

After a thorough study of the parable of the ten virgins, I'm beginning to lean toward the camp saying not all Christians will be raptured at the time of the rapture. Not referring to people who will later become Christians during the tribulation.

PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS

Matthew 25:1-13(NKJV) - 

“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Thanks for reading and God bless. Any questions or comments?

According to Matthew 13 the end of the age is a harvest. 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids private interpretation, so we must study this matter using the first the Bible, and nature second (Romans Chapter 1 says that the things of God may be known by the creature). So if we study the harvest in Leviticus 23 and look at the farmers harvesting, we notice that the harvest, although it is one harvest of one crop, is divided into THREE gatherings. They are (i) the firstfruits, (ii) the general harvest, and (iii) the gleanings. The firstfruits are those fruits which ripen before the others and are taken into the farmer's house for his enjoyment. The rest of the crop must have more time in the heat and dryness and are then harvested. The gleaning are left to profit the weak and underprivileged.

So, if you get the impression that not all Christians are raptured, you will have a case. If you only use one scripture, you will see the destiny of one PART of the harvest. Like, if you use Revelation 11, you will see a rapture of two very effective men of God - and this rapture is right at the end of the Great Tribulation - gleanings. But if you go one Chapter further to Chapter 12 you will find a rapture of "those who overcame" and the rest of those "who had the testimony of Jesus Christ" are not raptured but flee to a wilderness for 1260 days - the duration of the Tribulation. So your studies have turned up a valid point that is mostly ignored by other students.

Returning to the 10 Virgins, the evidence is that they are ALL Christians. They are the same in about eight points:

1. They all seek the Lord
2. They all have their lamps burning
3. They all have oil in their Lamps
4. They all slept because the Groom delayed
5. They all arose at the call that the Groom was coming
6. They all arose at the same time - the coming of the Groom
7. They all made a short journey to the Groom
8. They all trimmed their Lamps

The ONLY difference between the wise and the foolish is that they had no EXTRA oil in their VESSELS (not Lamps).

Now, if we keep to our method of only interpreting scripture with scripture, the following facts speak for themselves: Only Christians are called "Virgins" in the New Testament (2nd Cor.11:2). Only Christians are awaiting the groom. A "Lamp" in parable is the spirit of man (Pr.20:27). ALL ten lamps were burning. That is, they were all born again (Jn.3:6). If the oil depicts the Holy Spirit then ALL had oil in their Lamps. According to 1st Corinthians 15:23 only those who are the Lord's will "RISE" from "sleep" when "HE COMES". The Groom is COMING, and the Virgins rise and do a short journey to meet Him - the same sequence as 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17.

The evidence is overwhelming. ALL are Christians, but in this case the rapture is not in the foreground but the JUDGMENT SEAT. The foolish virgins are judged not to be fit for the FEAST. Now, all we have to do is examine the Lord's opinion that He did not know them. The Lord is "ALL-knowing", so it is not a matter of intellectual knowledge. The Lord knows all men and every hair on their heads. So we turn then to the meaning of the Greek word "oida". It means "know by perception". That is, to know a person because you see them often. Now, for a lover and fiancé not to be "known by sight" is a terrible indictment. It means that your fiancé never spent any time in your company. These virgins, like 2nd Corinthians 11:2 says, WERE ESPOUSED to Jesus, but they NEVER SPENT TIME WITH HIM. It does not mean that they were counterfeit virgins. If they were counterfeit virgins then ...

1. They could not be called virgins for they belong to another
2. They could not have their Lamps burning for they would not be born again
3. They could not have RISEN together with true virgins for "the rest of the dead" do not RISE for 1,000 years
4. They would not go out to met the groom for Israel and the Nations hate Him

The parable of the Ten Virgins gives us much information. If you join this parable with the "Workers" "Householder" and "Servant" of Matthew 24, and with the parable of the Talents in Chapter 25, a picture emerges.

• "One is TAKEN and one is LEFT". Some where ripe and some needed more time to ripen
• This TAKEN and LEFT breaks up the House - the Church, e.g. like Revelation 12
• The reason why one is LEFT is because they were "servants" who started well but became evil because the Lord DELAYED
• The servants are also Virgins. The foolish are called that because they did not BUY extra oil in this life. They thought that extra oil was for free. The oil in their Lamp was free but not that needed for the 1,000-year Kingdom
• Because of this attitude, the unfaithful servant hid his Talent and did not "trade" to bring profit to his Master

And so, from Matthew 24:32 to 25:30, we have the destiny of SERVANTS of the Lord. Some faithful and in an intimate relationship with Him, and some slothful, uncaring, unloving, and lazy - and some downright evil. They ALL REMAIN SERVANTS and VIRGINS. Even AFTER they are judged and found wanting, their STATUS does not change. But they LOSE REWARD and some suffer A LOSS.

[WilliamL]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:34 AM, AdHoc said:

The firstfruits are those fruits which ripen before the others and are taken into the farmer's house...

Very thorough post!

Regarding the firstfruits and "the farmer's house" -- specifically speaking, that house is God's sanctuary. In the End Times, that being the heavenly sanctuary.

" Under the Mount Sinai Covenant, all firstfruits were to be given to God: not just the firstfruits of the Spring grain harvest, but also of the Autumn harvest of fruit, wine and oil. Likewise, all the firstborn/firstfruit-of-the-womb of both livestock and men were to belong to God. Firstborn sons were redeemed with a substitute offering. Ex. 34:19-20, 22, 26; Lev. 23:10, 17; Deut. 26:1-4, 10b; Neh. 10:35-39

" This law applies spiritually under the Covenant of Christ. God established the pattern in Israel, and He will fulfill that pattern in Christ’s Church and in Israel.

" Under the typology of the Mosaic Law, only the best of the harvest, the firstfruits, were/are to be taken up to God’s Tabernacle. In the End Times, the Tabernacle of God is “the true Tabernacle which the Lord erected…in heaven.” Heb. 8:1-2; Rev. 11:19; 15:5 "

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/

 

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Very thorough post!

Regarding the firstfruits and "the farmer's house" -- specifically speaking, that house is God's sanctuary. In the End Times, that being the heavenly sanctuary.

" Under the Mount Sinai Covenant, all firstfruits were to be given to God: not just the firstfruits of the Spring grain harvest, but also of the Autumn harvest of fruit, wine and oil. Likewise, all the firstborn/firstfruit-of-the-womb of both livestock and men were to belong to God. Firstborn sons were redeemed with a substitute offering. Ex. 34:19-20, 22, 26; Lev. 23:10, 17; Deut. 26:1-4, 10b; Neh. 10:35-39

" This law applies spiritually under the Covenant of Christ. God established the pattern in Israel, and He will fulfill that pattern in Christ’s Church and in Israel.

" Under the typology of the Mosaic Law, only the best of the harvest, the firstfruits, were/are to be taken up to God’s Tabernacle. In the End Times, the Tabernacle of God is “the true Tabernacle which the Lord erected…in heaven.” Heb. 8:1-2; Rev. 11:19; 15:5 "

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/

 

With interest I read your reply and link. In the main we agree. In some detail we differ. But well done. You have seen a truth that few have been taught.

[luigi]

On 3/1/2022 at 10:41 AM, kenny2212 said:

 

 

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

 

Good day kenny2212, 

As the Lord informs five of the ten virgins that he assuredly does not know them; I then see these five virgins in the same boat as those in Matthew 7:22-23 who thought they were believers in Christ, but to whom Christ declares, his never having known them.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[kenny2212]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Define "Christian".

Define "rapture". 

 

Is a Christian someone who has oil? Or is a Christian someone who has a lamp? Clearly, the parable indicates many have lamps that originally had oil in them, but not all have extra oil. What else in scripture would inform these conditions so we might better understand the virgins with lamps and extra oil and the difference between the wise ones and the not-wise ones. What happens to the non-virgins and those already married? Why is the parable limited only to virgins? 

Josheb, feel free to share your thoughts...

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

Good day kenny2212, 

As the Lord informs five of the ten virgins that he assuredly does not know them; I then see these five virgins in the same boat as those in Matthew 7:22-23 who thought they were believers in Christ, but to whom Christ declares, his never having known them.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Hi luigi. I hope you'll allow me to venture an answer.

In Matthew 7:23 the Greek word "knew" does not mean that our Lord had no knowledge of them. He obviously had intellectual knowledge because He made a judgment of their works. The meaning of the word in Greek there means He had not experienced the "feeling of them". that is, He knew them as people but was not on intimate terms with them. The first time this word knew is used is in Matthew 1:25 where Joseph never made love to Mary until Jesus was born. The fact that these men had done many works in Jesus' name in their lifetime showed that they knew Him, and had the power of the Holy Spirit. In that day of judgment the called Lord Lord indicating that they knew Who He was. It was by not being INTIMATE with Jesus that they had not known what his WILL was. It was  not the works that were iniquitous. It was them doing them without it being the will of the Father for that moment.

In the case of the ten Virgins the Greek word for "knew" is a different word. It is often translated "saw". It means,; "to know by sight". The slothful Virgins were the fiancé of Jesus, but they never spent time in His presence. Imagine your fiancé not knowing you by sight - a terrible indictment. There are many Christians who do not spend time with Jesus. They believe in Him and what He has done, but have no close walk with Him.

There are some more arguments in my first posting.

Go well bro.

[luigi]

30 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Hi luigi. I hope you'll allow me to venture an answer.

In Matthew 7:23 the Greek word "knew" does not mean that our Lord had no knowledge of them. He obviously had intellectual knowledge because He made a judgment of their works. The meaning of the word in Greek there means He had not experienced the "feeling of them". that is, He knew them as people but was not on intimate terms with them. The first time this word knew is used is in Matthew 1:25 where Joseph never made love to Mary until Jesus was born. The fact that these men had done many works in Jesus' name in their lifetime showed that they knew Him, and had the power of the Holy Spirit. In that day of judgment the called Lord Lord indicating that they knew Who He was. It was by not being INTIMATE with Jesus that they had not known what his WILL was. It was  not the works that were iniquitous. It was them doing them without it being the will of the Father for that moment.

In the case of the ten Virgins the Greek word for "knew" is a different word. It is often translated "saw". It means,; "to know by sight". The slothful Virgins were the fiancé of Jesus, but they never spent time in His presence. Imagine your fiancé not knowing you by sight - a terrible indictment. There are many Christians who do not spend time with Jesus. They believe in Him and what He has done, but have no close walk with Him.

There are some more arguments in my first posting.

Go well bro.

Very good Adhoc, I agree with your first interpretation of the meaning "to know". As God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and so is His Christ; when Jesus then tells the five foolish virgins, and those in Matthew 7:22-23 that He doesn't know them; it is telling me that those individuals had no knowledge of love for God/love or their neighbor.

Your second interpretation, however, about the five virgins being betrothed to the Lord I disagree with. In my opinion, a virgin is one who has yet to have an intimate relation. The five foolish virgins, therefore would not have had a deep relationship with Mammon, as those who sell their souls by doing injustice to their neighbors for the love of lucre.

Edited March 9, 2022 by luigi

[AdHoc]

29 minutes ago, luigi said:

Very good Adhoc, I agree with your first interpretation of the meaning "to know". As God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and so is His Christ; when Jesus then tells the five foolish virgins, and those in Matthew 7:22-23 that He doesn't know them; it is telling me that those individuals had no knowledge of love for God/love or their neighbor.

Your second interpretation, however, about the five virgins being betrothed to the Lord I disagree with. In my opinion, a virgin is one who has yet to have an intimate relation. The five foolish virgins, therefore would not have had a deep relationship with Mammon, as those who sell their souls by doing injustice to their neighbors for the love of lucre.

O. K. Every one sees things a certain way. Thanks for the exchange of ideas bro.

[kenny2212]

49 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Would you mind answering at least a few of the questions asked so I have an op-informed basis providing direction? 

I have no answers. Enlighten me if you so wish...

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by kenny2212