Who is Israel? And what is God's plan for the Jewish people?

[George]

One must be careful of how the term Israel is used.  For example, when Paul says, Israel -- brethren of my flesh, in Romans 9-11 ... this is talking about the Jewish people!  

But at the same time, Paul writes to the Galatian church ... and uses the terminology ... Israel of God!

Galatians 6:15-16  For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. 

We realize that there's a grafting into Abraham's seed ... connected to the PROMISES of Abraham given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:29  And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.  

In this passage in Galatians, you can see that Paul is referring to the Israel of God.  However, there is still a distinction in the flesh ... as Paul writes to the church in Ephesus,

Ephesians 2:11-12  Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—  remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 

So Paul is encouraging the Church in Ephesus ... that they have been JOINED to the PROMISES of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 

Ephesians 2:13-22  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.  And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.  For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.  So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,  built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,  in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.  In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. 

That God is working to CREATE ONE NEW MAN out of the TWO -- Jew and Gentile, which Paul would refer to as the "Israel of God."

Notice what it says in Ephesians 3 ...

Ephesians 3:4-6  When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.  This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 

Gentiles are FELLOW HEIRS ... they DIDN'T REPLACE ISRAEL ... the JOINED to the COVENANTS given to Abraham! 

The grafting in of the nations to the promises of Israel was such a revelation even the Angels look into what God is doing!

Ephesians 3:9-10  and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,  so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 

[George]

So that the promises given to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob will be completely fulfilled in the REGENERATION as the Scriptures say in Genesis 17.

Gen 17:5-8  No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.  I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you.  And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.  And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.” 

Again he says in Genesis 35,

Genesis 35:11-12  And God said to him, “I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply. A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall come from your own body.  The land that I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you, and I will give the land to your offspring after you.” 

So that Gentiles through the MESSIAH are inheriting a land ... in ISRAEL when the Lord returns to fulfill the covenantal promises given to Abraham, and Jacob that Kings and Nations shall come out of thee to inherit the land!

Now as we are part of the promises of God given ... how much more so, should we pray for the Jewish people that have not yet found their Messiah?  This is why Paul says in Romans 11 ... 11:28-29  As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 

And to conclude ... when we enter the 8th millennium and the New Jerusalem comes, going back to Matthew 19:28, when God told the Apostles, you shall reign over the 12 tribes of Israel ... in the future it says in Revelation 21:14, "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." 

[Anne2]

12 hours ago, George said:

One must be careful of how the term Israel is used.  For example, when Paul says, Israel -- brethren of my flesh, in Romans 9-11 ... this is talking about the Jewish people!  

But at the same time, Paul writes to the Galatian church ... and uses the terminology ... Israel of God!

Galatians 6:15-16  For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. 

We realize that there's a grafting into Abraham's seed ... connected to the PROMISES of Abraham given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:29  And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.  

In this passage in Galatians, you can see that Paul is referring to the Israel of God.  However, there is still a distinction in the flesh ... as Paul writes to the church in Ephesus,

Ephesians 2:11-12  Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—  remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 

So Paul is encouraging the Church in Ephesus ... that they have been JOINED to the PROMISES of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 

Ephesians 2:13-22  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.  And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.  For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.  So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,  built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,  in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.  In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. 

That God is working to CREATE ONE NEW MAN out of the TWO -- Jew and Gentile, which Paul would refer to as the "Israel of God."

Notice what it says in Ephesians 3 ...

Ephesians 3:4-6  When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.  This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 

Gentiles are FELLOW HEIRS ... they DIDN'T REPLACE ISRAEL ... the JOINED to the COVENANTS given to Abraham! 

The grafting in of the nations to the promises of Israel was such a revelation even the Angels look into what God is doing!

Ephesians 3:9-10  and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,  so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 

George, Ephesians two is speaking of the priesthood, which the order of Aaron is a representative of the nation before God. He bore their names on the breastplate of decision/judgement. That is the annointed (christos) we were without. We as the nations simply did not have our names appear. We had to become circumcised and be joined to whichever tribe we were received to be named there. The high priest was Israels representative agent of the twelve tribes. Without tribal identity, we were not  named to appear there. He bore their names on the shoulders of the ephod, as well as his breastplate. Holy garments which were necessary to serve as high priest. Common Israelites were strangers as well. But in Jesus as (christos) we do have a representative agent before God. Both Jew and Gentile have full access  (Jews were strangers before as well, apart from the anointed priest (christos). That is why it says BOTH, now have access.

 

[George]

@Anne2 Where is the term priesthood used in Ephesians 2? 

As far as the rest, yes Yeshua is our High Priest and there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew and Gentile in the Kingdom, however there is a difference until we reach the next age.  

What is the role of a Gentile?  Besides being a disciple of Jesus ... provoking the Jewish people to jealousy.

 

[Anne2]

8 hours ago, George said:

@Anne2 Where is the term priesthood used in Ephesians 2? 

As far as the rest, yes Yeshua is our High Priest and there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew and Gentile in the Kingdom, however there is a difference until we reach the next age.  

What is the role of a Gentile?  Besides being a disciple of Jesus ... provoking the Jewish people to jealousy.
 

The priest that is Messiah, The high priest

04899 משׁיח mashiyach maw-shee’-akh

from 04886, Greek 3323 Μεσσιας; n m; [BDB-603b] {See TWOT on 1255 @@ "1255c"}

AV-anointed 37, Messiah 2; 39

1) anointed, anointed one
1a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
1b) of the king of Israel
1c) of the high priest of Israel
1d) of Cyrus
1e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings 

Le 4:3  If the priest that is anointed <04899> do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
Le 4:5  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall take of the bullock’s blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 4:16  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall bring of the bullock’s blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 6:22  And the priest of his sons that is anointed <04899> in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

Levitical messiah as representative agent, mediator in times past

 (ie priest of his sons that is anointed <04899>)

Heb 5: 1  For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2  Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. {can … : or, can reasonably bear with }
3  And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4  And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

As for the Gentile having a role as distinct as a Gentile to cause Jealousy? I do not see  such a role as what you describe. It was Paul's ministry unto the Gentiles that caused Jealousy. And that was accomplished and it's operation is still existant today  IMO still.

If you read the attributes of "saving Judaism" are, that was established by the Rabbis after the temple was destroyed, many are the very same as belongs to the apostolic EKKLESIA.

I have read Rabbinic material which says

Prayers have replaced sacrifices. That God comes among them when they gather in prayer. That God follows them even into exile. The synagogue, instead of a place of jurisprudence and learning law, is more now than it was. It is a temple where things of the temple were "transferred" there.

Even the Aaronic benediction is given. Which quite frankly George makes me fear for the Jewish people.......

That is why it is said, the Church was modeled after the synagogue. The reality is both are modeled after the temple. And is evidenced.

The jealousy is...How God relates to and in the body of Christ, they have given to a synagogue assembly. Where the law says the exact opposit concerning his nearness to them in sin and exile.  
 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Anne2

[angels4u]

37 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

The priest that is Messiah, The high priest

04899 משׁיח mashiyach maw-shee’-akh

from 04886, Greek 3323 Μεσσιας; n m; [BDB-603b] {See TWOT on 1255 @@ "1255c"}

AV-anointed 37, Messiah 2; 39

1) anointed, anointed one
1a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
1b) of the king of Israel
1c) of the high priest of Israel
1d) of Cyrus
1e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings 

Le 4:3  If the priest that is anointed <04899> do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
Le 4:5  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall take of the bullock’s blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 4:16  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall bring of the bullock’s blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 6:22  And the priest of his sons that is anointed <04899> in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

Levitical messiah as representative agent, mediator in times past

 (ie priest of his sons that is anointed <04899>)

Heb 5: 1  For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2  Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. {can … : or, can reasonably bear with }
3  And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4  And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

As for the Gentile having a role as distinct as a Gentile to cause Jealousy? I do not see  such a role as what you describe. It was Paul's ministry unto the Gentiles that caused Jealousy. And that was accomplished and it's operation is still existant today  IMO still.

If you read the attributes of "saving Judaism" are, that was established by the Rabbis after the temple was destroyed, many are the very same as belongs to the apostolic EKKLESIA.

I have read Rabbinic material which says

Prayers have replaced sacrifices. That God comes among them when they gather in prayer. That God follows them even into exile. The synagogue, instead of a place of jurisprudence and learning law, is more now than it was. It is a temple where things of the temple were "transferred" there.

Even the Aaronic benediction is given. Which quite frankly George makes me fear for the Jewish people.......

That is why it is said, the Church was modeled after the synagogue. The reality is both are modeled after the temple. And is evidenced.

The jealousy is...How God relates to and in the body of Christ, they have given to a synagogue assembly. Where the law says the exact opposit concerning his nearness to them in sin and exile.  
 

Hey Anne2

How do you read Israel's future and maybe near future in the Bible?

 

[Anne2]

28 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Hey Anne2

How do you read Israel's future and maybe near future in the Bible?

 

I honestly don't know how God is going to deal with it. I do believe this...It was a wicked and perverse generation of rulers that did this stuff, to set it up. And all judea and the surrounding regions accepted John's baptism o0f repentance, except them.

Lu 7:30  But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

The people like Paul, do what they do from ignorance still today. And why they were blinded. Not of their own decision, therefore like Paul faithful in heart. God indeed does love them. But the trial and tribulation of the Apostolic ministers to the Jews ( the 12), was from the opposition from the same rulers. And we among the nations are tried in the same manner of our own kinsman. It is really heating up in todays environment against believers.

1Th 2:14  For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: These probably were proselytes of the gate ( uncircumcised, but eligible for a portion in the next life) which kept Noachide law, and were exempt under Roman law from Idol's and Idolatry.

But, what frightens me, sincerely frightens me is what the law says about a specific response to his wrath.

De 29:19  And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Anne2

[George]

So that the promises given to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob will be completely fulfilled in the REGENERATION as the Scriptures say in Genesis 17.

Gen 17:5-8  No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.  I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you.  And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.  And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.” 

Again he says in Genesis 35,

Genesis 35:11-12  And God said to him, “I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply. A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall come from your own body.  The land that I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you, and I will give the land to your offspring after you.” 

So that Gentiles through the MESSIAH are inheriting a land ... in ISRAEL when the Lord returns to fulfill the covenantal promises given to Abraham, and Jacob that Kings and Nations shall come out of thee to inherit the land!

Now as we are part of the promises of God given ... how much more so, should we pray for the Jewish people that have not yet found their Messiah?  This is why Paul says in Romans 11 ... 11:28-29  As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 

And to conclude ... when we enter the 8th millennium and the New Jerusalem comes, going back to Matthew 19:28, when God told the Apostles, you shall reign over the 12 tribes of Israel ... in the future it says in Revelation 21:14, "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." 

[George]

2 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

It's a mistake in exegesis to think the "tree" is Israel. Christ is the tree. 

Where did I say the TREE is Israel?  The tree and root of is FAITH in the Messiah!  The entire book of Romans bears out it was the FAITH of Abraham ... came out the nation of Israel ... Jesus is NOT ISRAEL ... Jesus if FROM the FAITH of ABRAHAM which birthed the Jewish nation!

Isa 11:1  There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit. 

However, it is WRONG to think that Jesus is ISRAEL ... Jesus is NOT ISRAEL ... Jesus is FROM ISRAEL!  

Some people would take a passage from Hosea (which is actually a picture of the 3rd day ... and the mystery behind the 3rd day in connection to resurrection and the restoration of the Jewish people in the 3rd day) and try to create an ILLUSION that Jesus is Israel!

No Jesus is NOT ISRAEL ... Jesus is FROM ISRAEL!

And God is not done with the Jewish nation!

Rom 11:24  For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, George said:

Where did I say the TREE is Israel?  The tree and root of is FAITH in the Messiah!  The entire book of Romans bears out it was the FAITH of Abraham ... came out the nation of Israel ... Jesus is NOT ISRAEL ... Jesus if FROM the FAITH of ABRAHAM which birthed the Jewish nation!

Isa 11:1  There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit. 

However, it is WRONG to think that Jesus is ISRAEL ... Jesus is NOT ISRAEL ... Jesus is FROM ISRAEL!  

Some people would take a passage from Hosea (which is actually a picture of the 3rd day ... and the mystery behind the 3rd day in connection to resurrection and the restoration of the Jewish people in the 3rd day) and try to create an ILLUSION that Jesus is Israel!

No Jesus is NOT ISRAEL ... Jesus is FROM ISRAEL!

And God is not done with the Jewish nation!

Rom 11:24  For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 

OOPS I thought I was quoting Josheb.  Sorry George.