Timelines

[Uriah]

20 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We disagree, the timeliness is linear to earth's timeline,timeliness, hour means exactly as stated

Disagreement indeed, this would change many prophecies!

 

20 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Just as the two witnesses are given 1260 days, not 1290 or 1350 but 1260, days that are linear to earth's time

Right,  "1350 days", "1290 days" are not found in the book of Revelation.

Rev. 11:19 is also repeated in other parts of this prophecies. (thunders, lightning, voices, hail, quake) It is a picture of the END.

What is your opinion on the following...the 2 witnesses are seen by people globally as they are raised from death. The technology to do this is obviously still working at this point. Yet there have been other soundings. the darkness in ch 16 is the result of the ejected material in ch 8. And so is the darkness that includes the power grid going down, while the sixth trumpet AND the sixth vial prophecy about the Euphrates River.

Are you getting the idea about linear vs non-linear (strictly)? One of the plagues is shown to last 5 months. So the identifiers, seals, trumpets and vials cover that amount of time.

Now my take is- the plagues/woes/judgments are similar to the Passover plagues in Exodus... for a reason. this will be the approx. time of the witnesses rising and the plagues starting. Once again, bringing the "end" to "approx."  Tish b' Av.  NJ arrives approx. Feast of tabernacles.

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not "Chronological" as dispensationalism teaches 

Revelation 20 Satan is currently bound in the spiritual from one specific purpose,deceive the nations to battle

Revelation 20 clearly shows future tribulation saints, however not one part of Revelation 20:1-6 teaches of a future literal kingdom on this earth,with mortal humans present

Shalom, truth7t7.

I'm hesitating to begin here, because I care about you as a brother. Just a warning, the following will be longer than most posts.

The book of the Revelation of Yeshua` the Messiah is written chronologically. We can see it in the transition points:

For instance, here are the transition points between the seals and the trumpets:

Revelation 6:12-7:10 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks,

"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying,

"Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

...

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

And, then we read,

Revelation 7:13-8:7 (KJV)

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me,

"What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

14 And I said unto him,

"Sir, thou knowest."

And he said to me,

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

One theologian has described this as a "telescoping effect"; the sixth seal opens up the seven trumpets.

So, the seven trumpets FOLLOW the seven seals. Indeed, the sixth seal IS the sounding of the seven trumpets.

The fifth trumpet is the First Woe: (Revelation 9:12)
The sixth trumpet is the Second Woe: (Revelation 11:14)

Now, let's look at the next transition: After the sixth trumpet, there's a bit of a gap for what is written in chapter 10, but then we continue in chapter 11:

Revelation 11:14-19 (KJV)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever!"

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped (bowed before) God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned! 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (Land)!"

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven (to the sky), and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

After several things are seen and occur (the intro. to the dragon, the war in the sky, the dragon persecuting Israel, the intro. to the Sea Beast, the Sea Beast overcoming the saints, the intro. to the Land Beast, the Land Beast's deceit and image and setting up its mark, the Song of the 144,000, the messenger with the gospel, the messenger saying "Babylon is fallen," the messenger declaring the patience of the saints, the Son of man reaping after another angel tells Him to reap, and another angel with a sharp sickle reaping after yet another angel tells him to reap, and the blood flowing up to the horses' bridles for a distance of 1600 furlongs), we get back to the bowls of judgment in Revelation 15:

Revelation 15:1-16:2ff (KJV)

1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,

"Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints! 4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest!"

5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till (until) the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels,

"Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth!"

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. ...

Again, we see a telescoping effect: Out of the results of sounding the seventh trumpet, the seven bowls (vials) of the last plagues are poured out, all in one chapter, and in short order. 

Then, we read ...

Revelation 16:17-21 (KJV)

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying,

"It is done."

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Revelation 17 is the background on Babylon and its role. The beast upon which the prostitute rides is the same dragon that shall be thrown into the pit with no sounded bottom, for we read,

Revelation 17:7-8 (KJV)

7 And the angel said unto me,

"Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

This is corroborated by Revelation 20:7-10:

Revelation 20:7-10 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (which is the "bottomless pit" of 20:1-3), 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since "perdition" (Greek: apooleia) means "being cut off" and is used to say "destruction," "ruin" or "complete loss," it's talking about the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, just as it does in 2 Peter 3:7.

Revelation 18 goes into the actual destruction of the city Babylon, and the lament over the city by those who profitted by its wealth.

These two chapters, chapters 17 and 18, are a more detailed look at the declaration of Revelation 14:8. So, in that respect, there's a small bit that SEEMS like it may be out of order, but this only proves that this book was most probably originally written in Aramaic or Hebrew. Yochanan ("John"), being a Jew, had Hebrew literature as his way of thinking. In Hebrew literature, main points are said FIRST, and THEN one goes back and fills in the details, just as Genesis 1:1 is the SUMMARY of the days 2 and 3 to follow, and Day 6 in Genesis 1:24-31 is the SUMMARY of Genesis 2:4-25.

Here, Revelation 14:8 is the SUMMARY of what follows in Revelation 17-18, putting it in the correct perspective.

In a similar way, Revelation 19 contains the details of the summary found in Revelation 14:17-20.

So, again, look at the transition between Revelation 19 and 20:

Revelation 19:1-20:6 (KJV)

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (the air-breathing creatures) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (RESURRECTED) and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verses 4 through 6 all occur DURING the 1,000 years!

However, don't confuse this future 1,000 years with the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky which comes AFTER the Fire and the Great White Throne Judgment, where the unjust are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Again, note Revelation 20:7 and follow the transition between chapters:

Revelation 20:7-21:4 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God (RESURRECTED); and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (the grave) delivered up the dead which were in them (RESURRECTION): and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (actually, out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell (He will tent) with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow (mourning), nor crying (outcry), neither shall there be any more pain (stressful labor): for the former things are passed away."

So, again, don't make the mistake of mixing up the beginning of the 1,000 years with the end of the 1,000 years. There IS a difference between the 1,000 years (which haven't happened, yet) and the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky and the New Jerusalem. The two time periods are VASTLY different.

[truth7t7]

32 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

I'm hesitating to begin here, because I care about you as a brother. Just a warning, the following will be longer than most posts.

The book of the Revelation of Yeshua` the Messiah is written chronologically. We can see it in the transition points:

For instance, here are the transition points between the seals and the trumpets:

Revelation 6:12-7:10 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks,

"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying,

"Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

...

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

And, then we read,

Revelation 7:13-8:7 (KJV)

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me,

"What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

14 And I said unto him,

"Sir, thou knowest."

And he said to me,

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

One theologian has described this as a "telescoping effect"; the sixth seal opens up the seven trumpets.

So, the seven trumpets FOLLOW the seven seals. Indeed, the sixth seal IS the sounding of the seven trumpets.

The fifth trumpet is the First Woe: (Revelation 9:12)
The sixth trumpet is the Second Woe: (Revelation 11:14)

Now, let's look at the next transition: After the sixth trumpet, there's a bit of a gap for what is written in chapter 10, but then we continue in chapter 11:

Revelation 11:14-19 (KJV)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever!"

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped (bowed before) God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned! 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (Land)!"

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven (to the sky), and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

After several things are seen and occur (the intro. to the dragon, the war in the sky, the dragon persecuting Israel, the intro. to the Sea Beast, the Sea Beast overcoming the saints, the intro. to the Land Beast, the Land Beast's deceit and image and setting up its mark, the Song of the 144,000, the messenger with the gospel, the messenger saying "Babylon is fallen," the messenger declaring the patience of the saints, the Son of man reaping after another angel tells Him to reap, and another angel with a sharp sickle reaping after yet another angel tells him to reap, and the blood flowing up to the horses' bridles for a distance of 1600 furlongs), we get back to the bowls of judgment in Revelation 15:

Revelation 15:1-16:2ff (KJV)

1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,

"Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints! 4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest!"

5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till (until) the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels,

"Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth!"

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. ...

Again, we see a telescoping effect: Out of the results of sounding the seventh trumpet, the seven bowls (vials) of the last plagues are poured out, all in one chapter, and in short order. 

Then, we read ...

Revelation 16:17-21 (KJV)

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying,

"It is done."

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Revelation 17 is the background on Babylon and its role. The beast upon which the prostitute rides is the same dragon that shall be thrown into the pit with no sounded bottom, for we read,

Revelation 17:7-8 (KJV)

7 And the angel said unto me,

"Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

This is corroborated by Revelation 20:7-10:

Revelation 20:7-10 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (which is the "bottomless pit" of 20:1-3), 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since "perdition" (Greek: apooleia) means "being cut off" and is used to say "destruction," "ruin" or "complete loss," it's talking about the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, just as it does in 2 Peter 3:7.

Revelation 18 goes into the actual destruction of the city Babylon, and the lament over the city by those who profitted by its wealth.

These two chapters, chapters 17 and 18, are a more detailed look at the declaration of Revelation 14:8. So, in that respect, there's a small bit that SEEMS like it may be out of order, but this only proves that this book was most probably originally written in Aramaic or Hebrew. Yochanan ("John"), being a Jew, had Hebrew literature as his way of thinking. In Hebrew literature, main points are said FIRST, and THEN one goes back and fills in the details, just as Genesis 1:1 is the SUMMARY of the days 2 and 3 to follow, and Day 6 in Genesis 1:24-31 is the SUMMARY of Genesis 2:4-25.

Here, Revelation 14:8 is the SUMMARY of what follows in Revelation 17-18, putting it in the correct perspective.

In a similar way, Revelation 19 contains the details of the summary found in Revelation 14:17-20.

So, again, look at the transition between Revelation 19 and 20:

Revelation 19:1-20:6 (KJV)

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (the air-breathing creatures) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (RESURRECTED) and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verses 4 through 6 all occur DURING the 1,000 years!

However, don't confuse this future 1,000 years with the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky which comes AFTER the Fire and the Great White Throne Judgment, where the unjust are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Again, note Revelation 20:7 and follow the transition between chapters:

Revelation 20:7-21:4 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God (RESURRECTED); and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (the grave) delivered up the dead which were in them (RESURRECTION): and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (actually, out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell (He will tent) with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow (mourning), nor crying (outcry), neither shall there be any more pain (stressful labor): for the former things are passed away."

So, again, don't make the mistake of mixing up the beginning of the 1,000 years with the end of the 1,000 years. There IS a difference between the 1,000 years (which haven't happened, yet) and the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky and the New Jerusalem. The two time periods are VASTLY different.

Thanks for the response, I strongly disagree

The book of revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events

Examples: The 7th vial and 7th trump are parallel teachings of (The End)

Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 are parallel teachings of the final judgement

Thanks for the response, We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

[truth7t7]

54 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

I'm hesitating to begin here, because I care about you as a brother. Just a warning, the following will be longer than most posts.

The book of the Revelation of Yeshua` the Messiah is written chronologically. We can see it in the transition points:

For instance, here are the transition points between the seals and the trumpets:

Revelation 6:12-7:10 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks,

"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying,

"Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

...

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

And, then we read,

Revelation 7:13-8:7 (KJV)

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me,

"What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

14 And I said unto him,

"Sir, thou knowest."

And he said to me,

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

One theologian has described this as a "telescoping effect"; the sixth seal opens up the seven trumpets.

So, the seven trumpets FOLLOW the seven seals. Indeed, the sixth seal IS the sounding of the seven trumpets.

The fifth trumpet is the First Woe: (Revelation 9:12)
The sixth trumpet is the Second Woe: (Revelation 11:14)

Now, let's look at the next transition: After the sixth trumpet, there's a bit of a gap for what is written in chapter 10, but then we continue in chapter 11:

Revelation 11:14-19 (KJV)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever!"

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped (bowed before) God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned! 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (Land)!"

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven (to the sky), and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

After several things are seen and occur (the intro. to the dragon, the war in the sky, the dragon persecuting Israel, the intro. to the Sea Beast, the Sea Beast overcoming the saints, the intro. to the Land Beast, the Land Beast's deceit and image and setting up its mark, the Song of the 144,000, the messenger with the gospel, the messenger saying "Babylon is fallen," the messenger declaring the patience of the saints, the Son of man reaping after another angel tells Him to reap, and another angel with a sharp sickle reaping after yet another angel tells him to reap, and the blood flowing up to the horses' bridles for a distance of 1600 furlongs), we get back to the bowls of judgment in Revelation 15:

Revelation 15:1-16:2ff (KJV)

1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,

"Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints! 4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest!"

5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till (until) the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels,

"Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth!"

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. ...

Again, we see a telescoping effect: Out of the results of sounding the seventh trumpet, the seven bowls (vials) of the last plagues are poured out, all in one chapter, and in short order. 

Then, we read ...

Revelation 16:17-21 (KJV)

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying,

"It is done."

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Revelation 17 is the background on Babylon and its role. The beast upon which the prostitute rides is the same dragon that shall be thrown into the pit with no sounded bottom, for we read,

Revelation 17:7-8 (KJV)

7 And the angel said unto me,

"Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

This is corroborated by Revelation 20:7-10:

Revelation 20:7-10 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (which is the "bottomless pit" of 20:1-3), 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since "perdition" (Greek: apooleia) means "being cut off" and is used to say "destruction," "ruin" or "complete loss," it's talking about the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, just as it does in 2 Peter 3:7.

Revelation 18 goes into the actual destruction of the city Babylon, and the lament over the city by those who profitted by its wealth.

These two chapters, chapters 17 and 18, are a more detailed look at the declaration of Revelation 14:8. So, in that respect, there's a small bit that SEEMS like it may be out of order, but this only proves that this book was most probably originally written in Aramaic or Hebrew. Yochanan ("John"), being a Jew, had Hebrew literature as his way of thinking. In Hebrew literature, main points are said FIRST, and THEN one goes back and fills in the details, just as Genesis 1:1 is the SUMMARY of the days 2 and 3 to follow, and Day 6 in Genesis 1:24-31 is the SUMMARY of Genesis 2:4-25.

Here, Revelation 14:8 is the SUMMARY of what follows in Revelation 17-18, putting it in the correct perspective.

In a similar way, Revelation 19 contains the details of the summary found in Revelation 14:17-20.

So, again, look at the transition between Revelation 19 and 20:

Revelation 19:1-20:6 (KJV)

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (the air-breathing creatures) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (RESURRECTED) and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verses 4 through 6 all occur DURING the 1,000 years!

However, don't confuse this future 1,000 years with the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky which comes AFTER the Fire and the Great White Throne Judgment, where the unjust are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Again, note Revelation 20:7 and follow the transition between chapters:

Revelation 20:7-21:4 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God (RESURRECTED); and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (the grave) delivered up the dead which were in them (RESURRECTION): and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (actually, out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell (He will tent) with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow (mourning), nor crying (outcry), neither shall there be any more pain (stressful labor): for the former things are passed away."

So, again, don't make the mistake of mixing up the beginning of the 1,000 years with the end of the 1,000 years. There IS a difference between the 1,000 years (which haven't happened, yet) and the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky and the New Jerusalem. The two time periods are VASTLY different.

There is no future 1,000 year kingdom on this earth when Jesus returns

Jesus returns in fire and final judge.ent, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

[Keras]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

don't make the mistake of mixing up the beginning of the 1,000 years with the end of the 1,000 years. There IS a difference between the 1,000 years (which haven't happened, yet) and the eternal state of the New Earth and its New Sky and the New Jerusalem. The two time periods are VASTLY different.

I agree: It is a mistake to confuse the present age with the Millennium and the Mill  with Eternity.

Revelation is in a general chronological order.   There are some critical things to consider; 

1/ the first five Seals were opened when Jesus Ascended. 

2/ The Sixth Seal will be the world changer which commences all the following end time events. 

3/ The Seventh Seal is a time gap- of a half hour in heaven  = about 20 years on earth.

4/ The final 7 years before Jesus Returns are the 70th 'week' of Daniel.  The second half of it = 1260 days, is when Satan will control the world and the Great Trib will take place. 

5/ Jesus will Return to Jerusalem and will chain up Satan and destroy his army. 

6/ After His Millennium reign, everyone who has ever lived will stand before God on His Great White Throne in Judgment. 

7/ Those whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be made immortal; including those still living then, as 1 Cor 15:50-56 says.  No one receives immortality before then. 

There are many scriptures to prove these points. 

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, Keras said:

Revelation is in a general chronological order.   There are some critical things to consider; 

1/ the first five Seals were opened when Jesus Ascended. 

2/ The Sixth Seal will be the world changer which commences all the following end time events. 

3/ The Seventh Seal is a time gap- of a half hour in heaven  = about 20 years on earth.

4/ The final 7 years before Jesus Returns are the 70th 'week' of Daniel.  The second half of it = 1260 days, is when Satan will control the world and the Great Trib will take place. 

5/ Jesus will Return to Jerusalem and will chain up Satan and destroy his army. 

6/ After His Millennium reign, everyone who has ever lived will stand before God on His Great White Throne in Judgment. 

7/ Those whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be made immortal; including those still living then, as 1 Cor 15:50-56 says.  No one receives immortality before then. 

There are many scriptures to prove these points. 

The book of Revelation is in "Parallel" teachings of same events, as clearly seen below, the final judgment is seen in Revelation 11:18 and again in Revelation 20:11-15

Will you now deny that the scripture below is the final judgement?

Revelation 11:18KJV

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Edited April 21, 2022 by truth7t7

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

I agree: It is a mistake to confuse the present age with the Millennium and the Mill  with Eternity.

Revelation is in a general chronological order.   There are some critical things to consider; 

1/ the first five Seals were opened when Jesus Ascended. 

Shalom, Keras.

With your first two paragraphs, I'm in perfect agreement.

However, in point "1/," we begin to differ. I don't see the opening of these seals during the Time of Jacob's Trouble at all. These are SPECIFIC events that are significant enough to warrant mention. We've always had "conquerors," "wars," "famines," and "pestilence" or "pandemics" down through history over the past 2,000 years, but these will be events that happen in enough succession to warrant one's attention. They are NOT periods punctuated with these events. The first thing we must decide is when will these events be significant enough to telegraph the SPECIFIC fulfillment of these seals.

Yeshua` told us not to panic when we see events like these:

Matthew 24:4-8 (KJV)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows (birth pangs)."

While He was preparing His students for the things that would happen over the next 2,000 years, He was NOT trying to scare them! Quite the opposite, He was attempting to ALLEVIATE their fears!

2 hours ago, Keras said:

2/ The Sixth Seal will be the world changer which commences all the following end time events. 

3/ The Seventh Seal is a time gap- of a half hour in heaven  = about 20 years on earth.

I agree with you on these two points. Just remember that the first five seals are also included in the "world changer" that begins all the end time events.

2 hours ago, Keras said:

4/ The final 7 years before Jesus Returns are the 70th 'week' of Daniel.  The second half of it = 1260 days, is when Satan will control the world and the Great Trib will take place. 

No. While this is a popular myth, the 70th 'week' of Daniel 9 is NOT, nor does it contain, the "Great Tribulation." We are currently IN the "Great Tribulation" that's been occurring since 66 A.D. We are awaiting its complete fulfillment when the sixth seal takes place. The 70th 'week' began with our Lord's baptism. After 3.5 years, Yeshua` HIMSELF split the 'week' in two, as prophesied:

Daniel's visitor said,

Daniel 9:24-26 (KJV)

24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. ..."

This much was completed before, during, and immediately following His First Advent. As is true with many writings of Hebrew literature, the beginning of verse 26 is a summary of what is to follow. Hebrew literature frequently presents the main points of an outline before revealing the detail points of that outline.

The "prince that shall come" is part of a Hebrew noun construct. The first noun of the noun construct is the word "`am," meaning "a people." The phrase is "`am nagiyd habbaa'," and was expanded in translation to "[the] people of-[the]-prince that-shall-come." Three Hebrew words translated as eight words in English. This is talking about the Romans in 66 A.D., which began the siege on Jerusalem ending with the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. In Hebrew, "nagiyd " is the SECOND word of the construct and does not participate in the structure of the sentence; that is, it's a noun that cannot be the subject of the sentence in which it occurs. The same is true in English, for in translation we add the word "of" between the two nouns of the construct, just as "ben David " means "son OF-David." In English, this puts the second noun as the "object of the preposition 'of'," which can't participate as the subject, the direct object, or an indirect object of the sentence. The noun that CAN participate as a subject or object of the sentence is "`am," "people."

The sentence is not over in Hebrew between verses 26 and 27. There are no true pronouns in verse 27. The verbs there refer back to a noun or pronoun in verse 26. However, "nagiyd" is still the second noun of the noun construct, and so we must go back farther for the antecedent. Thus, the antecedent of the verbs of verse 27 is "mashiyach" in verse 26, "the Messiah." So, when we read,

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 ... And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "he" found three times in this verse goes back to "the Messiah" in verse 26.

So, make the substitution:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And the Messiah shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week the Messiah shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations the Messiah shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

These are partially fulfilled in His denouncement of the abominations which were spread abroad by the scribes and Pharisees:

Matthew 23:1-14ff (KJV)

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying,

"The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' 8But be not ye called 'Rabbi': for one is your 'Master,' even Christ (the Messiah); and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your 'Father,' which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your 'Master,' even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 

14 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."
...

And, He enumerated many of the abominations they committed. Then, He concluded:

Matthew 23:34-39 (KJV)

34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation!

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 

38 "Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say,

"'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.' (translation of Hebrew: Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH from Psalm 118:26 = 'Welcome, Comer in-authority of-YHWH.')"

Then, in His death, the Messiah ended the sacrifices and oblations with His own Sacrifice:

Matthew 27:50-53 (KJV)

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The author of Hebrews explains:

Hebrews 10:1-22 (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,

"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God."

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein"; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will WE ARE SANCTIFIED (MADE HOLY) THROUGH THE OFFERING OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST ONCE FOR ALL.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days," saith the LORD, "I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

18 Now where remission of these is, THERE IS NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The covenant which the Messiah "confirmed with many" is the DAVIDIC Covenant, repeated by Gabriel in Luke 1:30-33:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the LORD God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

2 hours ago, Keras said:

5/ Jesus will Return to Jerusalem and will chain up Satan and destroy his army. 

Yes, but of course, He won't chain up haSatan personally; He'll instruct one of His strongest messengers to do it.

2 hours ago, Keras said:

6/ After His Millennium reign, everyone who has ever lived will stand before God on His Great White Throne in Judgment. 

True, but remember what Yeshua` said:

John 5:19-23 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

So, it will be Yeshua` who sits upon the Great White Throne, judging the rest of mankind.

2 hours ago, Keras said:

7/ Those whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be made immortal; including those still living then, as 1 Cor 15:50-56 says.  No one receives immortality before then. 

There are many scriptures to prove these points. 

While there will be some who are justified by God in the final Judgment, the majority of them will be resurrected BEFORE the Millennium, participating in the FIRST Resurrection, which is still a fulfillment of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56.

[MattLovesCoffee]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:51 PM, George said:

Zec 14:7  And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light. 

I interpret this verse to say He returns at dusk in Jerusalem, sun has set and it begins becoming dark, then His brightness lights up the whole earth as He returns.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

The book of Revelation is in "Parallel" teachings of same events, as clearly seen below, the final judgment is seen in Revelation 11:18 and again in Revelation 20:11-15

Will you now deny that the scripture below is the final judgement?

Revelation 11:18KJV

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Shalom, truth7t7.

I know that's what you want to believe and what someone has probably taught you, but there's judgment and then there's Judgment. Revelation 11 is when YHWH God begins to reign on the earth. He does this through His Son, Yeshua` the Messiah of God (Jesus the Christ), His Son. You can't ignore what was said JUST PRIOR to what you quoted above!

Revelation 11:15-17 (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever!" 

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned!"

THEN, we read what you quoted:

Revelation 11:18 (KJV)

18 "And the nations were angry (Psalm 2:1), and thy wrath is come (Colossians 3:6), and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great (2 Corinthians 5:10); and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Now, think about this carefully: The Greek words "teen geen," "τὴν γῆν," the accusative case spelled "tau-eta-nu & gamma-eta-nu," pronounced "tain gain," are often translated as "the earth." They are the words used to translate the Hebrew word "haa'aarets," "הָאָֽרֶץ," which is also often translated as "the earth." HOWEVER, both sets of words also mean "the land!" More specifically, in the Bible, they often refer to "the Land" of Israel! Seldom do they mean the entire planet. It would be very ambitious to think that any human being could "destroy the whole planet earth," but it is far more likely that John is referring to those who would attempt to destroy the Land of Israel, particularly the surrounding Muslim countries who want to see "Israel driven into the sea!"

So, what they are saying in verse 18 is that the Gentiles were angry, but God's wrath has finally come. The resurrection of the Justified by God has happened and they are judged and rewarded, based on what they did during their lifetimes. He'll reward the prophets, the holy ones (saints), and ALL who respect God's Name (Authority), whether they are just simple folks or important people, and He will destroy those who are attempting to hurt His Land Israel, or the people within the Land! Guess who will be fighting THAT war?! Yes! The Messiah Yeshua` Himself as the Lion of the Tribe of Yhudah ("Judah"), the One who will fight them with the sword out of His mouth! The One who will be zealous for His Land!

Remember: Yeshua` said that His Kingdom will start out small, like a grain of mustard seed, BUT it will grow until it's like a tree in which the birds of the air can nest! (Matthew 13:31-32). It will be during that transition time, as His Kingdom grows, that He will be fighting many battles as He subdues all the other nations of the world. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28). Most civilized countries ruled by people who have a brain will be negotiating with Him on peaceful terms, but there will always be some barbarians, some dictators, who will think they can outfight the King of kings, and they will be shown just how wrong they are!

[MattLovesCoffee]

Responding to the original post. I'm assuming timeline of the End Times but the whole biblical timeline as well. I'm on my phone so providing scripture references will be minimal due to editing inconvenience.

I hold a traditional view with some specifics that most believers tend to fear because of a phrase that says "nobody knows the day or hour except the Father."

So over and over in Scripture, especially in the Torah, we see the 6+1 pattern. Genesis 1 establishes the order and theme of God's plan of salvation. If you look closely Day 1 of Genesis parallels with the first millennium, that's from Adam's fall until Noah. Man acknowledges God's existence then the difference between good and evil. The first item in the Temple is the altar of sacrifice. The first festival is Passover. The first stage in a believer's walk with God is to acknowledge God/Christ and discern between good and evil, which leads to repentance. You can see the parallels all the way through seven, the same order and theme. Then both the psalmist and Peter tell us that "one day is as a thousand years." Even in the book of Barnabas (chapter 15 I think), which carbon dates to the turn of the first century, shows that the first believers eventually figured out that it would take 6000 years from Adam's fall until Christ's return, because they realised the law of the Sabbath Rest was a prophecy, that each day represents one thousand years.

Some 25 years ago I realised that it's the crucifixion, not the birth of Christ, that we need to consider as a millennial marker, the end of the fourth century, beginning the fifth. Regardless of the dispute over the crucifixion year, which I tend to believe happened in 33AD, I put the return of Christ to happen in the year 2033AD (2000 years or 2 prophetic days after the crucifixion), which should mean He returns on the Day of Atonement that year, being the 3rd of October just after sunset (Zechariah 14:6-7) according to the biblical lunar calendar. And the seventh millennium beginning on the 8th of October, 5 regular days later. I say this because the "day nobody knows" is not referring to the Day of Atonement but rather to the Day of Trumpets. A different event on a different day. Day 5 of Genesis speaks of marine life flourishing and flying creatures. The fifth item in the Temple is the bowl of incense, which symbolises the prayers of the saints, the believer being in communion and pleasant to God and a rising up to God. This leads me to conclude that the Day of Trumpets symbolises the Rapture. Now passages such as Leviticus 14:33-53 (yes, but open your spiritual and prophetic eyes) confirm that Christ comes before the 7 year long Tribulation to call believers out of the world. While it also confirms that during the Tribulation there will be people who wash their clothes, becoming saved. This aligns with the sixth (pre-Tribulation Raptured saints) and seventh (people coming to faith during the Tribulation) churches of Revelation.

Also, the Tribulation is foretold to be 2520 days long (360 days times 7), ending not at Atonement but when Tabernacles (the seventh millennium) begins. Doing some reverse engineering, that means the Tribulation starts around 14 November 2026, the day the Antichrist signs the covenant of many, whereby the Jews demolish their border walls, divide the land, and commence building a temple.

The Rapture can only occur on the Day of Trumpets, which happens around September/October time each year, so there are 5 possibilities left, being 2022, 23', 23' 25' or 2026. So nobody knows because the year is kept secret. This event must occur in order for the new 10 nation alliance to rise to power. Daniel speaks in his visions of the Babylonians, the Persians and the Romans, therefore concluding that the Antichrist will come from the region of the old Roman Empire. John says this alliance will only be given power in the last hour, therefore it cannot be China, the USA, or the EU, who all currently have power. The only candidates left are the Balkan nations. They fall within the region of Daniel's visions and currently have no political power. So we can over the next 5 years expect to see the Balkan nations talk of forming a political alliance.

With the Rapture the western Christian world falls off the scene, hence why the USA is never mentioned in Revelation as being powerful or coming to save the Jews. With the Rapture the Muslims (the greenish plague of mold in Lev 14) believe it was their god who took the Christians away hence uniting faster in order to conquer the Jews. The atheistic secular humanists, the Marxists (the reddish plague of mold in Lev 14), will believe it was some strange science or aliens, hence easily supporting the rise of a new power. And without conservative Christians to influence them God ironically gives them, on a silver platter, the freedom to pursue their Marxist ideals so that they will learn the hard way. China won't know the origin of it but will believe luck is on their side.

The 7 year long Tribulation will be as follows:

The first half the Jews will build their temple. The Muslims will form an army under the leadership of one leader they elevate to the status of Mahdi, likely from Iran. The Islamic army will attack Israel in the first wave from the north and south. The Antichrist will push back both armies, gaining northern Africa as territory. Around the same time he notices the Gog and Magog Islamic army coming in from the north and east, but God personally destroys this army. This causes the Antichrist to rage in jealously so rapidly starts a nuclear war so as to fool the world into believing it was him who destroyed the Islamic army and not God. The nuclear war is fast over but very destructive, the entire Middle East and Mecca is gone, perhaps the Vatican as well. During this war the first three trumpet judgements are unleashed, being nuclear war, a destructive oceanic volcanic eruption and an asteroid strike (the Apophis asteroid scheduled for a near passing in April 2029). Babylon, the world financial system utterly collapses, not even the rich escape its collapse.

Now the Antichrist declares victory, then is assassinated (possibly while on live TV) with a knife or bullet through the eye, then he is raised to life by the same demon who possessed the Roman Emperors. The world marvels at him. He declares himself emperor, and goes to the Jewish temple and claims himself to be God incarnate. The Abomination of Desolation. He mocks YHWH, blasphemes Christ, declaring them nonexistent, while declaring all other religions false as well. 30 days later he sets up the Mark of the Beast, along with the support of a Jew (a.k.a. The False Prophet, the beast that rises out of the earth/land (Israel)). This event marks the midpoint of the Tribulation. Then the two witnesses appear on the scene, being Enoch and Elijah. The Antichrist tries to kill them and the Jews (who fled to the mountains) but fails at every opportunity, so he turns his anger towards the Christians and begins his quest to kill them all.

With nuclear fallout, global famine, economic collapse, solar flares, demons unleashed to plague mankind, mankind continues to curse God rather than repent and grows more supportive of the Antichrist's call for all humanity to come destroy the Jews. China begins a genocidal land-grab towards the west heading for Jerusalem, and burns everything and kills a third of mankind along the way. With the armies of the world's nations now drawing close to Israel the Antichrist manages to kill the two witnesses and leaves their bodies lying dead on the street. 3 days later on the Day of Atonement, as the armies enter Israel, Christ raises the two witnesses from the dead and all those who were beheaded by the Antichrist and returns, with the pre-Tribulation Raptured saints, and destroys the armies by His presence. He touches down on the Mount of Olives and splits it open, healing waters rush out to begin healing the earth.

Scripture says the survivors go on to repopulate the earth and go yearly to Jerusalem to Keep the Feast of Tabernacles, for that they have normal human bodies, not spiritual bodies as the Raptured and resurrected.

The Seventh Millennium will start by Christ ordering Ezekiel's temple (chapters 40 to 48) to be built, mankind will see the return of the Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system. Yes there will be literal animal sacrifices again, but all the ritual and ceremonial laws are symbolic. The laws in Torah will be literally kept, not as a means to earn salvation but rather for their symbolic meaning. Christ did NOT abolish the Torah, He came to keep it. To fulfill in Hebrew means to keep, to obey, it does not mean to do away with. That lie crept into the church around the second and third century and still holds the church captive today.

Towards the end of the Millennial Reign of Messiah, after mankind has lived at peace for 1000 years, Satan will be released one last time as a means to test humanity to see if they truly serve God from the heart. Scripture doesn't tell us much of how it will play out. I don't know if there will be prophets speaking of it or if God will deliberately not give information since mankind will have 7000 years of history to learn from.

Then comes the Great White Throne Judgement, followed by eternity where God rolls up this universe and believers then live with God in the new heavens and earth.

Shalom.

For detailed scripture references you can read The End of the Beginning by Ken Power, it's available for free to read online and free to download the pdf documents from his website.