Why were the SACRIFICES NECESSARY BEFORE ... Will they be re-instituted again ... and if so WHY?

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, George said:

While the world may look at us as being holy ... the simple presence of God poured out fresh and new keeps ourselves humbled realizing the very GRACE of God we are operating!   Charles Finney taught the ... baptisms of the Spirit ... and I believe this.  We simply like balloons that can be filled up ... and when released ... nobody knows where it goes or what it does ... and suddenly without warning will collapse!  And at that time we need a fresh infilling of the Spirit!  The seeking of the power of God on a daily basis needs to be constant ... only then can we truly walk in REVIVAL!  

Hmmmm...this is the sort of thing that was thought, taught and believed during the time I was a licensed minister in the COG of Cleveland, TN. It is a familiar position among self-professed  pentecostals at large and can lead to some problems.

I am far from a cessationist. Just the opposite, the LOrd has very pointedly shown me this is false from the time I was a babe.

But I no longer see us as vessels that need to be refilled, but rather that when 'in the context of a gathering of saints or an individual ministering or in some manner sharing Christ' with the unsaved, that the Holy Spirit is present in power for His purposes. Yes--He is in us and working out through us--as He is always in us and never leaves. Miracles and answers to prayer and heavenly direction for His purposes are simply what He does. This comes through a measure of faith in a specific circumstance.

In the context of a local expression of Christ, who believes He still works today--the Holy Spirit (so to speak moves) as the saints are looking to the Head (Christ) as one and may manifest Himself in many ways. This mostly subtly not fantastical--to meet a need in word, to bring forth praise or to touch someone not yet 'In Christ'.

The danger or 'problems' as Referenced above--are when things become more of a dog and pony show that attempts to generate an 'outpouring' or any such outward thing. Emotionalism and excitation of the flesh.

Truly--in my experience--the Lord is more quiet.

:-)

Believe me--I have seen it all--and a time comes when the Lord, by His Grace provides discernment.

There is a great deal that is actually false, but more often than not, just fleshy excitation.

We look to Him--the Head--and do so as one mind and heart and He works as He wills. Not as we convince, cajole or bring to bear a formula.

:-)

Here we are Lord--what do you have for us today? Then perhaps a time of quiet and listening. Hey Lord--we are listening. This often brings out a hymn and praise.

LOL

[Your closest friendnt]

30 minutes ago, Alive said:

Hmmmm...this is the sort of thing that was thought, taught and believed during the time I was a licensed minister in the COG of Cleveland, TN. It is a familiar position among self-professed  pentecostals at large and can lead to some problems.

I am far from a cessationist. Just the opposite, the LOrd has very pointedly shown me this is false from the time I was a babe.

But I no longer see us as vessels that need to be refilled, but rather that when 'in the context of a gathering of saints or an individual ministering or in some manner sharing Christ' with the unsaved, that the Holy Spirit is present in power for His purposes. Yes--He is in us and working out through us--as He is always in us and never leaves. Miracles and answers to prayer and heavenly direction for His purposes are simply what He does. This comes through a measure of faith in a specific circumstance.

In the context of a local expression of Christ, who believes He still works today--the Holy Spirit (so to speak moves) as the saints are looking to the Head (Christ) as one and may manifest Himself in many ways. This mostly subtly not fantastical--to meet a need in word, to bring forth praise or to touch someone not yet 'In Christ'.

The danger or 'problems' as Referenced above--are when things become more of a dog and pony show that attempts to generate an 'outpouring' or any such outward thing. Emotionalism and excitation of the flesh.

Truly--in my experience--the Lord is more quiet.

:-)

Believe me--I have seen it all--and a time comes when the Lord, by His Grace provides discernment.

There is a great deal that is actually false, but more often than not, just fleshy excitation.

We look to Him--the Head--and do so as one mind and heart and He works as He wills. Not as we convince, cajole or bring to bear a formula.

:-)

Here we are Lord--what do you have for us today? Then perhaps a time of quiet and listening. Hey Lord--we are listening. This often brings out a hymn and praise.

LOL

You must have a lot of experiences. 

The enemy must have tried to shift you in many ways.

It seems that you are a survivor. 

The enemy works also through our selves.

He is establishing something in our selves and in our ignorance thinking that it is from God we proclaim it in the world in the name of Jesus. 

And often it is just ourselves.

Establishing our selves in something we make our selves believe that it is from Jesus. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

21 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

I am stating what is read in the Bible, so if I am not making sense to you, it means the Word of God does not make sense to you.

 

Where in the Bible when we Reign with Christ, does it state the Father is Reigning with us?

 

Where does it say we are Reigning with the Father during the 1,000 years?

Heavenly Bound do not be afraid.

[George]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

The danger or 'problems' as Referenced above--are when things become more of a dog and pony show that attempts to generate an 'outpouring' or any such outward thing. Emotionalism and excitation of the flesh.

I absolutely AGREE ... the real issues are nobody TESTS the SPIRITS within charismatic circles.  However, the idea that God doesn't refill his saints over and over again ... is not Biblical.

Read in Acts ...

Act 2:1  And in the fulfilling of the day of Pentecost, they were all with one accord in one place. 

Act 2:2  And suddenly a sound came out of the heaven as borne along by the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 

Baptized in the Spirit ...

Act 4:31  And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the Word of God with boldness. 

Again filled ... 

There is a very REAL understanding ... GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD ... it's a daily seeking the power of God for that DAY!

[George]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I am far from a cessationist. Just the opposite, the LOrd has very pointedly shown me this is false from the time I was a babe.

The books you pointed to ... what are the author's views of the Holy Spirit?

[BibleGuy]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:05 AM, George said:

The SACRIFICES of the FUTURE is NOT a REINSTITUTION of MOSAIC LAW, but RATHER a NEW SET OF INSTRUCTIONS … a NEW SET of ORDINANCES!

Ezekiel 43:12  This is the law of the temple: the whole territory on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple. 

Torah Beit HaMikdash in Hebrew …

NOTICE IT MUST BE HOLY … and yet SIN still is in the FUTURE!

So how can man STILL DEALING WITH SIN ENTER TO SEE HIS GLORY?

Holiness will be REQUIRED to ENTER the Holiness of God … and to SEE HIS GLORY!

Ezekiel 43:2  And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the east. And the sound of his coming was like the sound of many waters, and the earth shone with his glory. 

Ezekiel 43:4  As the glory of the LORD entered the temple by the gate facing east, 

Ezekiel 43:5  the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the LORD filled the temple. 

Ezekiel_44:4  Then he brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple, and I looked, and behold, the glory of the LORD filled the temple of the LORD. And I fell on my face.

This is EXACTLY the same situation shown EARLIER IN LEVITICUS and in 2 CHRONICLES!

Until next time...

Looks like we are surprisingly in agreement on a LOT!

Finally found a comment to share another take on, though....

You wrote: "The SACRIFICES of the FUTURE is NOT a REINSTITUTION of MOSAIC LAW, but RATHER a NEW SET OF INSTRUCTIONS … a NEW SET of ORDINANCES!"

My response:  Dt. 30:1-8 is not yet fulfilled, and Dt. 30:1-8 confirms that ALL the Torah of Moses will again be obeyed when Israel returns to the land with repentant hearts.

And, when Dt. 30:1-8 is fulfilled (i.e., when Israel again obeys 100% of all Torah), I would not really call this a "reinstitution" of Mosaic Law....rather, it is simply a renewed ability to 100% observe the Mosaic Law that was temporarily unobservable due to diaspora.

Same thing during Babylonian captivity....and the subsequent return to Israel from Babylon.  The Mosaic Torah sacrifices were not cancelled/terminated by God during captivity, nor were they "reinstituted" by God in some new and different way, upon return from Babylonian captivity....they were simply again observed.

I just don't like the term "reinstituted" because it implies (in my mind) that they were cancelled/terminated by God.  But they were never cancelled/terminated.....they have just been technically unobservable due to diaspora, now for the better part of the past 2000 years.

 

Regarding "A NEW SET of ORDINANCES"....

I've been hoping to find somebody who can help me out...and compare Eze. 40-46 with Levitical Sacrificial Torah, to see whether they are able to function simultaneously....or whether one contradicts the other.

If they can not occur simultaneously, then the future restoration of 100% Levitical Torah sacrifices (as promised in Dt. 30:1-8) is NOT the same as the sacrifices of Eze. 40-46.

This would lead to the interesting result that there is MORE than one phase of future restoration of animal sacrifices, as sanctioned by God.

Perhaps the Dt. 30:1-8 will occur first....and then the Eze. 40-46 phase will occur later?

(Eeesssh.....now we're dabbling in eschatology.....NOT my expertise!)

Blessings......

 

 

[enoob57]

15 hours ago, George said:

In Israel, there are VERY FEW of US that are doing the work of evangelizing!  There are roughly a total of 15,000 Jewish believers in the land.  For those of us that are fighting for the salvation of Israel ... as well as my Palestinian pastor friends that are fighting for the salvation of Ishamael ... the opposition that we all can deal with is the Orthodox Jews and the Muslims!  You EXPECT it!  However, the crazy opposition that we face are actually from believers!  So you have this camp of preterist and replacement that come from all over the world ... go to "Christ at the Checkpoint" and spew antisemitism and Israel is not special in the sight of God.   All the famed preterist preachers go there, along with a host of preachers most people would never associate with! 

They hinder NOT only our EFFORTS in Israel, but call my Palestinian brothers aiding the "zionists" because they understand God has a plan for Israel and the Jewish people!  The replacement camp with the Palestinian circles vilifies my friends!  Many of my friends have been shot, their churches burned ... and yet, those who teach hatred toward Israel are protected by the Muslims in the territories.   Ever wonder why there is ONE so called "evangelical' church in the entire Gaza Strip?  What happened to all my evangelical friends?  Take a guess!

Then you have the host of "Christian Zionist" who support the nation state of Israel ... but literally finance the anti-missionaries that are actively paid to attack us!  The orthodox DO NOT WORK ... they are paid by the gov't to have kids and study torah... and their side income is from anti-missionary groups ... and a LOT of those funds come from "Christian" Zionist organizations!  This is why I have a REAL issue with Dual covenant theology!

If anyone is claiming to be a organization for Israel ... and NO WHERE on their MANDATES is the need for Israel's salvation -- THEY ARE NOT FOR ISRAEL!  I'm sorry -- our KING needs to be the center of whatever we do -- and His message our core message!  They literally prostitute Israel for their own benefit citing passages in the Old Testament ... I will bless thee ... and miss the very FIRST commandment given by Jesus ... Go forth and make disciples ... Paul's message, to the Jew FIRST and also to the GREEK!

So any group that is actively trying to HINDER my efforts in sharing the gospel ... I will stand up to ... and face it head on!   

The reality most of these camps from which these bad doctrines come from are DEAD CHURCHES!  They haven't had a move of God in so long because it's without POWER!   Most of these proponents come from dead Methodist, Presbyterian, Orthodox branches of Christianity ... 

If someone wonders why those of us get attacks from all sides ... its' because I teach people the need to REPENT and why it's important to live a lifestyle of Repentance!  The need to walk filled with an anointing of the Holy Ghost on a daily basis!  Teaching the true understanding of what a disciple does ... to carry their cross daily ... to be a living sacrifice to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

If a doctrine hinders that ... I'm going to call it out ... and won't stop doing so!  In the past, we had really solid posters that did so ... however, it seems that many have left for whatever reason.  So I'll take up the issue ... and continue to teach the entire WORD of GOD ... only the Word of God can recover someone in error!

This is the worthy I joined!

[Alive]

39 minutes ago, George said:

The books you pointed to ... what are the author's views of the Holy Spirit?

I can't say, but it isn't necessarily germane to the excellent research that was done.

Most excellent, in fact. Some of the most detailed and comprehensive as any I have read. Actually, far more complete, detailed and scripture oriented than anything I have read by any Darbyite. Huge contrast in that way.

@George I mean this. I am not being over the top in exaggerating. Neither am I dogmatic. As I have said many times--I really don't care which position is correct, in the sense that I have no skin in the game. I have approached these studies as a clean slate...inasmuch as that is possible.

I have also watched several debates done in love between the various positions online, although those cannot be anywhere near as thorough--after having read at length, it does help.

[George]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

I mean this. I am not being over the top in exaggerating. Neither am I dogmatic. As I have said many times--I really don't care which position is correct, in the sense that I have no skin in the game. I have approached these studies as a clean slate...inasmuch as that is possible.

The reason why this is important ... is that God gives His people a DETAILED vision of what He is doing, first --- to show that He alone is God and only God could foretell the future ... but also to EQUIP us with the knowledge to reach all people with the gospel!  In the near future ... the world will be shaken to the point like it never has, and this will be an opportunity to bring in a harvest for our generation! 

God gives us a glimpse of the false gospels, false teachers, and nothing is NEW under the SUN!  Think of all the false teachings that Paul deals with in the 1st century ... replacement theology (Romans 9-11), completing ones salvation through works (Galatians), amillenialism (2 Tim 2:17-18).  The apostle John deals with gnosticism.   Why does the Bible go through such details ... because in the LAST DAYS there will be FALSE TEACHERS abounding!  Jesus LITERALLY says ... TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN deceive you!  Meaning that "man's teachings" is how people get deceived!  This is WHY THE WORD of GOD must be studied!

[Alive]

1 hour ago, George said:

However, the idea that God doesn't refill his saints over and over again ... is not Biblical.

Read in Acts ...

Act 2:1  And in the fulfilling of the day of Pentecost, they were all with one accord in one place. 

Act 2:2  And suddenly a sound came out of the heaven as borne along by the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 

Baptized in the Spirit ...

Act 4:31  And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the Word of God with boldness. 

We have have to agree to disagree. Believe me, I get where you are coming from--I could almost say it is semantics, but that would not be entirely true.

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us when we are born from above. He doesn't leave and come back, so being refilled is a stretch of those verses. Look up that word in the Greek.