The antichrist

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 If God did not save the unbelieving Israelis from the Romans why would he save the unbelieving Israelis from Russia or anyone else for that matter? 

PS, John said the antichrist denies Jesus and makes the claim that the Christ has not come. 

Most Jews in Israel deny Jesus and say Christ has not come. 

As I said, God has a Covenant with the seed of Abraham. The Covenant of Promise made with Abraham promised Abraham and his seed the Land of Canaan "for an everlasting possession." But God wanted Israel to be ritually clean so that He could dwell with them, and He wanted Israel to govern righteously. So 430 years  later, at Sinai, God made another Covenant with the seed of Abraham. The conditions of this Covenant worked against the Promises of the first Covenant. The Covenant of Promise gave Israel the Land if the males were circumcised. The Covenant of Law kicked Israel out of the Land if they broke the Law.

So up until now, the Covenant of Law has had its effect and Israel have been defeated, deported and dispersed. But God's honor is at stake. What about the other Covenant of Promise? THREE things are necessary for Israel to be recovered;

1. Israel must have their sins forgiven. So our Lord Jesus dies for the "sins of the world" (1st Jn.2.2) and so His death can be applied by God if He wants to (Rom.9:15-18)
2. Israel must turn back to what had them chastised - the Law (Deut.30:1-5)
3. Israel must have a New Covenant of Law which is more effective than that of Sinai (Jer.31:31-33)

But we know that Israel will embrace the Beast. So what does God do? He raises up a REMNANT and treats then as REPRESENTATIVE of Israel (Rom.9:27, 11:5, 13). This remnant was at Elijah's time, was at Paul's time and will be present at the end of the age. They are the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8.

On this basis does God protect and recover Israel AFTER their chastisement is over.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Jayne said:

Yes, the Romans did scatter or disperse the Jews not many decades after Jesus died and was resurrected.  But in 1948, they returned from all around the world - their first Prime Ministers coming from such places as Poland, Russia, Ukraine, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Those who know history know the miracle of Israel being united into a nation once again in 1948.

And in 1967, the miracles of BIBLICAL proportion of God protecting Israel from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq partially backed by the Soviet Union with massive weapons is unfathomable.  Do some research on the miracles of the Six Day War.  It will knock your socks off.

And in the future, when THE Antichrist has the whole world deceived, God is going to raise up and save 144,000 Jewish men to evangelize the world.  And literally countless people will be saved.  So says Revelation 7 and 14.

God had AND has a plan for Israel.  It's what history teaches and what the Bible teaches.  Individual Jewish people must be saved to enter heaven.  But God is not finished with Israel as a nation.  That's evident.

MULTIPLE dual prophecies in the Old Testament speak of Israel's punishments AND restorations of that day long ago and "THE day" to come.

I'll just leave you with one.

Jeremiah 31:10 =   "Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands far away; say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.'"

 

2000 years  ago the Jews rejected the king of Israel and had him killed. Today they have chosen his replacement who governs them. He will soon establish his cashless society and mark them all with his seal. 

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

51 minutes ago, Diaste said:

 

I think I see your point. Correct me if I'm wrong

The Gog/Magog war is said to happen first and God destroys Gog/Magog and then the antichrist takes over the world. This seems like a contradiction, yes?

I agree 100%. 

John says an antichrist is someone who rejects Jesus as Christ(the Messiah). He also said an antichrist claims the Christ(Messiah) has not come. 

98 percent of the people in Israel are antichrist according to John's definition of an antichrist. Several people on this board keep saying Russia is going to attack those antichrist and God will protect them. This makes no sense whatsoever. Why would God protect the antichrist when they reject Christ. 

Jesus said whosoever believes in him will be saved. But some of these people on this board are saying that everyone in Israel who don't believe in him will be saved from Russia. 

Yes its a contradiction. 

Do they believe the antichrist goverment that is sitting on the throne in Israel governing Israel will be safe forever? 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

As I said, God has a Covenant with the seed of Abraham. The Covenant of Promise made with Abraham promised Abraham and his seed the Land of Canaan "for an everlasting possession." But God wanted Israel to be ritually clean so that He could dwell with them, and He wanted Israel to govern righteously. So 430 years  later, at Sinai, God made another Covenant with the seed of Abraham. The conditions of this Covenant worked against the Promises of the first Covenant. The Covenant of Promise gave Israel the Land if the males were circumcised. The Covenant of Law kicked Israel out of the Land if they broke the Law.

So up until now, the Covenant of Law has had its effect and Israel have been defeated, deported and dispersed. But God's honor is at stake. What about the other Covenant of Promise? THREE things are necessary for Israel to be recovered;

1. Israel must have their sins forgiven. So our Lord Jesus dies for the "sins of the world" (1st Jn.2.2) and so His death can be applied by God if He wants to (Rom.9:15-18)
2. Israel must turn back to what had them chastised - the Law (Deut.30:1-5)
3. Israel must have a New Covenant of Law which is more effective than that of Sinai (Jer.31:31-33)

But we know that Israel will embrace the Beast. So what does God do? He raises up a REMNANT and treats then as REPRESENTATIVE of Israel (Rom.9:27, 11:5, 13). This remnant was at Elijah's time, was at Paul's time and will be present at the end of the age. They are the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8.

On this basis does God protect and recover Israel AFTER their chastisement is over.

And what of the antichrist Israeli goverment and all of its followers. Are they also saved? Or are all those unbelievers destroyed? 

Today about 2 percent of Israel say they belive in Jesus. I don't expect that persentage to change much  because there are roughly 9 million people in Israel and 144,000 are saved. 

What happens to the goverment which the Jews have replaced the king of Israel with and its followers? 

https://biblehub.com/amos/5-26.htm

Edited April 16, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Diaste]

57 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

John says an antichrist is someone who rejects Jesus as Christ(the Messiah). He also said an antichrist claims the Christ(Messiah) has not come. 

98 percent of the people in Israel are antichrist according to John's definition of an antichrist. Several people on this board keep saying Russia is going to attack those antichrist and God will protect them. This makes no sense whatsoever. Why would God protect the antichrist when they reject Christ. 

Jesus said whosoever believes in him will be saved. But some of these people on this board are saying that everyone in Israel who don't believe in him will be saved from Russia. 

Yes its a contradiction. 

Do they believe the antichrist goverment that is sitting on the throne in Israel governing Israel will be safe forever? 

Right. This fits with the Gog/Magog/Russia invasion at the end when they are destroyed by the Coming of the Lord. If Gog/Magog/Russia happens first then it's the Lord that does it and essentially protects Antichrist[contradiction, as you said.] and reveals Himself to the nations, while Antichrist remains in charge for 7 years[contradiction]. And the Gog/Magog/Russia coalition is supposed to be the armies of Satan and Antichrist[contradiction].

I'm with you on this. 

[Hobie_]

22 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Why do people believe God would protect the antichrist Israeli goverment from Russia? 

Where was the Israeli goverment as the Christians were persecuted all through the ages, no they are not the antichrist and will never be, as they cannot fulfill the prophecy as what it did from the ancient times, till today. The papacy and its leader fit like a glove and will show themselves as the antichrist power... https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-protest-pope-francis-good-friday-reconciliation-gesture/

[tim_from_pa]

20 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

I don't remember Jesus saying that he who rejects him will be saved. Yet there are people who say the antichrist in Israel will be saved from Russia. 

This is a crazy world we live in with crazy people teaching crazy things. The 

Well, this gets off on the subject asking if Israel are God's chosen people and are the covenants to them still good yet?  The answer is yes, but if you notice all the promises to Abraham and later to King David are earthly, physical promises which pave the way for Messiah and His Kingdom that is to come here on Earth.  What I am saying to make this as short as possible is that they one day WILL be saved and enjoy the Lord's Salvation.  It's just that all of them did not come to Him yet, and for that matter, all the Gentiles as well. The problem with chosen is a dual theme.  One is chosen for the physical, earthly promises to which lead to the second one becoming a son of God by faith in Jesus.  The same thing happened with Israel regarding this dual concept.  There was the northern house of Israel that inherited the birthright of becoming many nations, etc as promised to Abraham and there is Judah (with Benjamin) who has the kingly promises and thus Jesus came from Judah. This is the "grace" part of the nation.  But only those from Judah (the Jews) ever returned to the land.  So when I speak of Israel, most people think I am talking only about Jews but I am not.  There are other physical seed of Israel.  When one can see only on facet of the situation, it becomes a contradiction to them.

Pragmatically speaking, if this bothers you about salvation later, it can be noted that the Lord seals 12,000 from each tribe who won't receive the mark.  I'm sure there's those who are in the Lord's hiding who turn to Him during these terrible times.  You can't place the entire nation on the same plane.  His promises are indeed good an will bring it to pass and indeed, make Jerusalem the world capital one day.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Hobie_ said:

Where was the Israeli goverment as the Christians were persecuted all through the ages, no they are not the antichrist and will never be, as they cannot fulfill the prophecy as what it did from the ancient times, till today. The papacy and its leader fit like a glove and will show themselves as the antichrist power... https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-protest-pope-francis-good-friday-reconciliation-gesture/

The Israeli goverment was not for approximately 2000 years. 

The Israeli goverment was, and was not, and yet is. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And what of the antichrist Israeli goverment and all of its followers. Are they also saved? Or are all those unbelievers destroyed? 

Today about 2 percent of Israel say they belive in Jesus. I don't expect that persentage to change much  because there are roughly 9 million people in Israel and 144,000 are saved. 

What happens to the goverment which the Jews have replaced the king of Israel with and its followers? 

https://biblehub.com/amos/5-26.htm

According to Romans 11, Israel remain hard, blind and faithless till the fullness of the Gentiles. So there can be no talk of Israelites, as a nation, being reborn, being sons of God and having eternal life. Let's settle that forever. John 1:12-13 say that a man can only be born to the father if he believes. John 3:14-16 is clear. Without Faith a man can never possess eternal life. That is, the way back to the Tree of Life is ONLY by faith in Jesus.

But what about Israel (i) being forgiven their sins? (ii) Being resurrected from the dead? (iii) Being restored to their Land from the diaspora? (iv) Being the Nation where Jesus lives when He sets up His Kingdom on Earth? (v) Being Christ's servants? (vi) Being safe from their enemies? (vii) Being the leading Nation among Nations?

The answer to these is in the prophets. When Romans 11 says that "all Israel will be saved", it does not mean "saved" like a Christian. It means that Israel is restored to what God promised Abraham.

• A Christian has his sins forgiven by FAITH in Jesus. Israel have their sins removed because Jehovah can have mercy on who He likes
• A Christian is born again in his spirit (Jn.3.6). Israelites get new spirits (Ezek.11, 18, 36)
• A Christian is conformed to Christ (Rom.8:29). Israelites get a new heart
• A Christian is resurrected with "celestial glory". Israel are resurrected with "Terrestrial glory"
• A Christian can be a co-king with Jesus (Lk..19:17-19). Israel can never be kings (Matt.21:43)
• A Christian enters Christ's "joy" (Matt.25). Israelites are servants (Lk.1.74)
• A Christian becomes the Bride of Christ (2nd Cor.11.2). Israel are SUBJECTS of Christ their King
• A Christian has eternal life (2nd Pet.1:4). Israel have resurrection life
• Christians are rulers of the world. Israel will be lenders to the world

... and so on. God has made promises to Israel. These He will keep. But an Israelite can never enjoy the things that belong to the BELIEVER.

[Shilohsfoal]

13 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

According to Romans 11, Israel remain hard, blind and faithless till the fullness of the Gentiles. So there can be no talk of Israelites, as a nation, being reborn, being sons of God and having eternal life. Let's settle that forever. John 1:12-13 say that a man can only be born to the father if he believes. John 3:14-16 is clear. Without Faith a man can never possess eternal life. That is, the way back to the Tree of Life is ONLY by faith in Jesus.

But what about Israel (i) being forgiven their sins? (ii) Being resurrected from the dead? (iii) Being restored to their Land from the diaspora? (iv) Being the Nation where Jesus lives when He sets up His Kingdom on Earth? (v) Being Christ's servants? (vi) Being safe from their enemies? (vii) Being the leading Nation among Nations?

The answer to these is in the prophets. When Romans 11 says that "all Israel will be saved", it does not mean "saved" like a Christian. It means that Israel is restored to what God promised Abraham.

• A Christian has his sins forgiven by FAITH in Jesus. Israel have their sins removed because Jehovah can have mercy on who He likes
• A Christian is born again in his spirit (Jn.3.6). Israelites get new spirits (Ezek.11, 18, 36)
• A Christian is conformed to Christ (Rom.8:29). Israelites get a new heart
• A Christian is resurrected with "celestial glory". Israel are resurrected with "Terrestrial glory"
• A Christian can be a co-king with Jesus (Lk..19:17-19). Israel can never be kings (Matt.21:43)
• A Christian enters Christ's "joy" (Matt.25). Israelites are servants (Lk.1.74)
• A Christian becomes the Bride of Christ (2nd Cor.11.2). Israel are SUBJECTS of Christ their King
• A Christian has eternal life (2nd Pet.1:4). Israel have resurrection life
• Christians are rulers of the world. Israel will be lenders to the world

... and so on. God has made promises to Israel. These He will keep. But an Israelite can never enjoy the things that belong to the BELIEVER.

Amos speaking of the day of the Lord had said that because Israel has chosen a king and made the star symbol(as seen on the Israeli flag) to worship, that they would be cast out of the kingdom. Jesus also said they would be cast out. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

Fact is, the land the antichrist Israeli goverment reigns over does not belong to them. It belongs to the seed of Abraham which is Christ.