enoob57 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 29, 2022 21 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Actually you are sort of right, in terms of the ideas, though I would say that Augustine got his ideas from the Bible. However, I was referring to the T.U.L.I.P. specifically. I never see people discussing Augustinianism or the 5 points of Augustine! It is a scattered mess with a lot of confusion and people claiming to be calvinist and don't hold to the systematic of the five tenets making even more confusion! Most do not want to bother with the detail and so no resolve can occur and it is what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: t is a scattered mess with a lot of confusion and people claiming to be calvinist and don't hold to the systematic of the five tenants making even more confusion! Most do not want to bother with the detail and so no resolve can occur and it is what it is... As much as we disagree on the merits/demerits of the "systems", I heartily agree that there is more confusion and misunderstanding. Some things require a considerable investment, before one has enough understanding to even take a position on rational grounds. I believe that the Spirit can give understanding, but the variety of opinions, tells me that that is not operational for everyone, or, they just are not listening. People like you Steven, I am not willing to toss into the category of not thinking, not studying, and Spiritless, so I have to default to doing my best to understand with my mind, and give everyone a benefit of a doubt on some topics, and admit that I do not know it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 29, 2022 The Holy Spirit does not author confusion. Men do that. My experience tells me that there may be more misunderstanding than confusion on the topic of election. If we come to the discussion carrying and firing a high powered doctrine gun, there is too much noise to be able to listen and hear another. We must be willing to be wrong and to look at ALL of what scripture has to say and face it squarely. Typically, that high powered doctrine gun is narrowly focused and seldom changes aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 29, 2022 7 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: As much as we disagree on the merits/demerits of the "systems", I heartily agree that there is more confusion and misunderstanding. Some things require a considerable investment, before one has enough understanding to even take a position on rational grounds. I believe that the Spirit can give understanding, but the variety of opinions, tells me that that is not operational for everyone, or, they just are not listening. People like you Steven, I am not willing to toss into the category of not thinking, not studying, and Spiritless, so I have to default to doing my best to understand with my mind, and give everyone a benefit of a doubt on some topics, and admit that I do not know it all. Do we still have the ability to open a debate forum so that you and I can discuss the issues as brothers in Christ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 hours ago, enoob57 said: Do we still have the ability to open a debate forum so that you and I can discuss the issues as brothers in Christ? Are you referring to the Soapbox Debate Forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 29, 2022 56 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Are you referring to the Soapbox Debate Forum? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 hours ago, enoob57 said: yes Yes, it seems to still be there, has not been used in a long time. As I recall, our format was to have a moderator (not that active, but still) who framed the debate, what it was about, what it was limited to, how it would be conducted, rules, etc. The debaters would then present their back and forths. I have some reservations about it. One is, at the moment, I might be the only available moderator, not sure, other people on "staff" might have the authority. Otherwise it seems sort of questionable in principle, that a moderator, would be one of the participants. It would also be encouraging, if the moderator, whoever he/she is, would not be too invested in the topic, that narrows the field a lot, but maybe it is not the problem I think it is, or maybe a solution exists if it is. My second reservation is, that basically it seems like nog one knows about of visits the Soap Box, and if this were to happen, seems like a lot of effort, for a a small audience. I would hope that such a debate would be about enlightenment and edification, not some ego driven contest. Also, there is another aspect of this . . . I'll get back to this post in a moment . . . OKAY, back. I just went and looked the forum over, to see how it has been done in the past etc. One thing I noticed, is that moderators have participated in the debates they moderated. After looking at that, it does not seem to be the issue I thought it might be. I like the feature that the debate is between two individuals, without interruptions and sidetracking from observers, that would be refreshing! One thin I didn't like is that people can use the little reputation emojis (or whatever they are called) in the lower right hand corner of the posts. My thinking here is that that gives readers ways to thumbs up or thumbs down posts, it is sort of like applauding or booing in a live debate, which distracts from the merits of the posts themselves, and just lets people root for the home team. We have cliques of people here that seem to follow topics thumbs up or oy vey people almost as if they are coordinating their responses, I find that disturbing, but it is what it is, not too big a deal though I guess. I guess I would be willing to do it, but we'd have to agree on the topic, any ground rules, etc. before we could enter into such a thing, if it is not you and I, and you are itching for a "fight" (LOL), you can debate someone else. If you want to explore this further, I suggest you message me, we could hash out the detail in that. This is not the place. However, as you saw (probably) I started a thread, open to all, with the intent of seeing if the Calv/Armin thing can be discussed on it's merits from scripture, with a more neutral starting point that is typical, and hopefull people more willing to actually hear each other (and more importantly the scriptures) with an attempt to do so with open minds and hearts, trying to set their biases aside for awhile. Being that I think people have a sin nature, lol, I am not that optimistic, but I am am hopeful that they can let their new nature win out. You are welcome to participate in that if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I would hope that such a debate would be about enlightenment and edification, not some ego driven contest. I can assure you that only God's Word is priority within my motivations... all else is superfluity of cessation... we could have some good conversation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 19 minutes ago, enoob57 said: I can assure you that only God's Word is priority within my motivations... all else is superfluity of cessation... we could have some good conversation! That would be cool, I got your message, and responded to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 29, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.55 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2022 19 hours ago, enoob57 said: It is a scattered mess with a lot of confusion and people claiming to be calvinist and don't hold to the systematic of the five tenants making even more confusion! Most do not want to bother with the detail and so no resolve can occur and it is what it is... 1) If someone does not hold to the 5 Solas and TULIP, then he is not what men would call a "Calvinist" (not that any of it came from Calvin!). 2) A landlord would like tenants, but a Bible believer would prefer "tenets". 3) Most who believe what the Bible teaches about what men call "Calvinism" pay great attention to detail; and far more than the opponents, who usually prefer proof-texting and rationalisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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