How mutation adds information to a population genome

[The Barbarian]

6 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Then theres the mantis shrimp in a league by itself.

Nothing has better vision rather natural or manmade I find that incredible.

And other things produce heat as hot as the sun.

It sees several more primary colors than we do.   But it lacks the ability fo form a sharp image.   Doesn't need that. We only have three (a few of us now have the ability to see a 4th primary color) and that seems good enough.

After decades of exhaustive study, scientists have concluded that human tetrachromacy is real. Some people have a truly superhuman range of color vision. In fact, there are two distinct types of tetrachromacy. In some cases, it’s genetic. But in some rare cases, it can also be an acquired trait. While it’s difficult to test, enough tetrachromats have stepped forward that scientists now have visual and genetic tests for the condition.

One percent of the world’s population is thought to be tetrachromatic.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/331169-human-tetrachromacy-is-real-heres-what-we-know

[The Barbarian]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

You obviously knew what I meant and it's fitting. And this it the 3rd time you have appealed to the fallacy. "Even honest creationists..." implying I'm not an honest creationist but if I was then I would think the same. 

You edited my statement in a way that makes   it seem like that.    But it's not what I said, is it?    What I actually said was (part you removed is in red):

I'm merely pointing out that even honest creationists who know about the evidence, admit the fact that we have all these transitionals, indicating evolution.

I'm thinking maybe you didn't read it very carefully, and were simply mistaken, rather than trying to twist what I wrote.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't care what anyone says that isn't evolution. If man came from fish then the scripture is wrong.

The evidence, as some of your fellow YE creationists admit, is that man evolved from other hominids.  

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

On 5/26/2022 at 8:45 AM, The Barbarian said:

Since God is a spirit, and has no body, the image of God in us is in our minds an souls, not in any bodily appearance.

Sure He does. God in the Flesh, Jesus Christ. 

No, Jesus says that a spirit has no body.  

John 4:24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.

Luke 24:39 See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have.

Jesus has a body because He is wholly man as well as wholly God, he does not have a body because He is God.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's just some common characteristics that perform tasks in multiple conditions and environments. Vertebrates are going to have similar structures, made that way from the beginning. Similar attributes do not provide evidence of 4 billion years of evolution.

You've confused "looks alike" with homologies that show evolution.   For example, bird wings and bat wings look enough alike that the Bible says bats are birds.    But the "look alike" is not the standard for homology.   The two kinds of winds are very different.   On the other hand, the arms of a human, forelegs of a horse, wings of a bat, and flippers of a whale are homologous, made of the same tissues and mediated by the same genes in all of these, showing common descent.  

And as you have seen, this indicates common descent of living things on Earth.

 

[teddyv]

10 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

You keep interjecting that but God started with the Earth, created the immediate Atmosphere, divided the water and caused Land to appear, THEN HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.

 

That is totally opposite of the Big Bang Theory.   Earth/Our Galaxy does not even come into play until BILLIONS of years after the Initial Expansion of Space.

 

Face it, the 2 Concepts of Creation and BBT are nowhere close and it's Demonic to pose they represent the same thing.

Reading with the mind of the contemporary audience, "the waters" most likely are symbolic of and referring to chaos. 

Treating Genesis 1 as a scientific treatise seems wrong-headed, playing into our culture and influences of philosophical modernity. I am far more convinced that it is worldview and identity building for the new nation of Israel. That does not mean there are no fundamental truths that are relevant to us now.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Heaven_Bound said:

You keep interjecting that but God started with the Earth, created the immediate Atmosphere, divided the water and caused Land to appear, THEN HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.

No.   Think about it.   The universe had to be made first.   Only later was the Earth made.  We know precisely how.   It was a cloud of gas and dust collapsed by the shock wave of a supernova explosion.    Would you like to know how we know that?

1 hour ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Face it, the 2 Concepts of Creation and BBT are nowhere close

They fit nicely together.   Indeed, a Christian minister first realized that there was an initial expansion a moment of creation.   And an atheist scientist denounced his theory as "the Big Bang",  because it implied a creation.

It's not "demonic" to deny the Big Bang; such a denial is just an expression of unwillingness to accept creation on God's terms.

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, teddyv said:

Reading with the mind of the contemporary audience, "the waters" most likely are symbolic of and referring to chaos. 

Yes.   The Mesopotamian myths had Tiamat, the evil goddess of chaos, as a goddess of water.   Uncontrolled water was symbolic of chaos.   

http://symboldictionary.net/?p=2973

Which actually fits what we know of the beginning pretty well.  Before the universe produced stars and planets, atoms and light emerged from the chaos of the singularity.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by The Barbarian

[ayin jade]

On 5/26/2022 at 4:38 AM, nobody said:

When first created He was able to move in both realms. God seek to demote him and did. Not knowing the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son from the highest realm Jesus did help Adam. I'll leave it at that, rest may be against what is wrote in the bible that is wrong.

Are you saying things in the bible are wrong?

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, Heaven_Bound said:

That is the issue, we're looking at this from a modern viewpoint when we should be looking at it from Moses' when he was given this to him by God.

Yes. YEC belies an underlying application of modern historical reckoning to a time and culture that had a much different view of their place in the cosmos.

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

And yet, when we observed stones weighing up to 80 tons a piece, that are perfectly cut in a multitude of shapes and angles fitting together like a puzzle so perfectly you cannot even slide a thin piece of paper through. 

The technology is not a mystery.   It required a lot of people and a lot of time. 

https://www.aracari.com/blog/aracari-team-insights/inca-walls/

4 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Running Water/Water-Wheel/Copper bars connected by the thousands = we're looking at an Ancient Generator that theoretically could produce Electricity in the Pyramids.

No sign of that at all.   Just stories people tell because they want to believe that early man wasn't capable of doing things with simple tools and methods.

 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

You edited my statement in a way that makes   it seem like that.    But it's not what I said, is it?    What I actually said was (part you removed is in red):

I'm merely pointing out that even honest creationists who know about the evidence, admit the fact that we have all these transitionals, indicating evolution.

I'm thinking maybe you didn't read it very carefully, and were simply mistaken, rather than trying to twist what I wrote.

The evidence, as some of your fellow YE creationists admit, is that man evolved from other hominids.  

No, Jesus says that a spirit has no body.  

John 4:24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.

Luke 24:39 See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have.

Jesus has a body because He is wholly man as well as wholly God, he does not have a body because He is God.

You've confused "looks alike" with homologies that show evolution.   For example, bird wings and bat wings look enough alike that the Bible says bats are birds.    But the "look alike" is not the standard for homology.   The two kinds of winds are very different.   On the other hand, the arms of a human, forelegs of a horse, wings of a bat, and flippers of a whale are homologous, made of the same tissues and mediated by the same genes in all of these, showing common descent.  

And as you have seen, this indicates common descent of living things on Earth.

 

I appreciate the convo. The topic no longer holds my attention. 

Thanks.

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

No, that is modern assumption. 

It's been known for some time.   You see, the Incas (for example) didn't know exactly how the walls were built.    Earlier civilizations did this.    It made no sense to them at first, because they didn't realize that it was done to prevent earthquake damage.   Stone age people weren't any less intelligent than we are, and they figured out how interlocking stones could minimize damage.  

2 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

An entire Cave measuring 70x70 in a complete 3 degree perfect angle where it is impossible to use running water nor stones so smooth to leave a surface finish better than less than 2 on a profilometer.   

That's not as good as we can do today, but of course, they didn't have the instruments we have.   

2 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

where it is impossible to use running water nor stones so smooth to leave a surface finish better than less than 2 on a profilometer. 

It's not hard at all.   It just takes lots of time and care and fitting.    No secret methods.

One way that would have made it easier:

1. place the stone to be cut on the ground, face-up;
2. place sticks and clay in the opening in the wall, and create a form identical to the opening;
3. place the form horizontally over of the stone to be cut;
4. use a weighed string (plum bob) to trace the shape of the opening onto the stone;
5. carve the perimeter of the stone;
6. use the plum bob to confirm that the stone was shaped exactly like the form, and hence the opening;
7. rotate the stone 90°, lift it, and shove it into place.

https://www.indra.com/~davide/IncaWalls/Index.html

It's important to know that perfect fits only were on the facing side:

Which makes sense, if they were indeed cutting it by templates.

2 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

And to your article, top dog stone masons have looked at the Inca' Structures and all have claimed it would be basically impossible to reproduce in modern technology.

I'd be willing to see a checkable list of those "top dogs" who couldn't figure it out.    Isn't that hard to do, really.

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by The Barbarian