Those Who Are Convinced Christ Will Return In Their Lifetime

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I believe the two witnesses will be Enoch/Elijah who never experienced death, fire from their mouth means that at their spoken words like Elijah calling fire down from heaven

I believe the false prophet can use man's technology in calling fire from heaven, many different ways it could be?

Missiles, I'm sure. 

Have you considered the two witnesses may be gentiles? 

Revelation 11: 2-3

But exclude the outer court, do not meassure it, because it has been given to the gentiles. They will trample of the holy city 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth. 

 

I don't see where the discussion changed. Looks to me like the two witnesses are either gentiles or leaders of those gentiles. 

If I'm not mistaken, those gentiles are the second beast with two horns. AKA the false prophet. 

 

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Missiles, I'm sure. 

Have you considered the two witnesses may be gentiles? 

Revelation 11: 2-3

But exclude the outer court, do not meassure it, because it has been given to the gentiles. They will trample of the holy city 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth. 

 

I don't see where the discussion changed. Looks to me like the two witnesses are either gentiles or leaders of those gentiles. 

If I'm not mistaken, those gentiles are the second beast with two horns. AKA the false prophet. 

 

Revelation chapter 11 teaches the (Two Witnesses) will be individuals that have physical bodies that die, and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, their bodies will be raised before a world watching

The (Two Witnesses) will be representing the Lord Jesus Christ on earth in plagues as seen in the Revelation, they aren't the (False Prophet) as suggested, who is aligned in partnership with (The Beast) in evil deception

Edited May 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[Joulre2abba]

14 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Have you considered the two witnesses may be gentiles? 

Revelation 11: 2-3

But exclude the outer court, do not meassure it, because it has been given to the gentiles. They will trample of the holy city 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth. 

 

I don't see where the discussion changed. Looks to me like the two witnesses are either gentiles or leaders of those gentiles. 

If I'm not mistaken, those gentiles are the second beast with two horns. AKA the false prophet. 

Your assertion that the two witnesses are gentiles is problematic.

The verse you cite says that they are clothed in sackcloth. That is distinct to the Jewish culture concerning prophets. Such as John the Baptist.

The gentiles who trample the outer court would refer to those who built the dome of the rock on the pavement where the Jewish Temple used to occupy.

- "If I'm not mistaken, those gentiles are the second beast with two horns. AKA the false prophet."

A: You are mistaken indeed. Because you seek to connect the two witnesses to being gentiles with your only reference of them as being obviously evil. Plus you somehow erroneously manage to change two witnesses to the one second beast who has two horns on his head.

However, if you follow the two witnesses along in their time on the earth. They are the two olive trees (anointed of God) who oppose the anti-christ and the false prophet.. till they are killed then are resurrected and ascend into heaven.

While the anti-christ and the false prophet are thrown into hell by one of God's strong angels.

[Joulre2abba]

5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I believe the two witnesses will be Enoch/Elijah who never experienced death, fire from their mouth means that at their spoken words like Elijah calling fire down from heaven

I believe the false prophet can use man's technology in calling fire from heaven, many different ways it could be?

Missiles, I'm sure. 

The speculation train has completely gone off it's track and tries to move forward by spinning it's wheels in the tall thick grass.

Why would the people marvel at seeing missiles? Have they been living under a rock that missiles are something that they've never seen before?

By injecting actual scripture.. In the OT Elijah called fire down from heaven.. however that does not mean that it was modern weaponry of missiles (mwm).

Even with putting the action into the future.. that still doesn't mean that mwm would be used. The text doesn't compare the fire to be like or as something else.

So the reader is grammatically stuck with "fire".

Besides the fire comes out of their mouths. So if missiles are coming out of their mouths as you use your modern assertions.. the two witnesses would have to be transformed into (I'm not a war arsenal expert) whatever military apparatus the missiles are put in till they are blasted out. Yet Rev.11:3 states that the two witnesses will prophesy .. and that they are clothed in sackcloth. Clearly they are people.

I wonder what your brain imagines when you read in Rev.19:12 that Jesus' eyes are a flame of fire. What is being talked about there.. bursted fireworks instead of gloriously glowing pupils?

[Joulre2abba]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If you say that we are in the time of the ten toes, then the breaking into the toes must be history that you can look back on and put some kind of date or estimate the of the time period of when it happened.

When is the approximate date or time period of when the feet divided into the toes?

I haven't got the information on easy copy/paste from a prewritten notepad. Just look at when the Roman Empire faded out and the ten kingdoms showed up. The ten being the first ten nations to join the E.U. Just archive the news reports.. They (Brussels +) are the iron/strength while (Greece +) are the weak/clay. The iron tyrannically enforces harsh policies onto the clay.

The UK/Brexit is mentioned in Daniel.. (1 of 3) that will leave. There's talk that Italy may be Italexit. And also Germany (Gerexit?)

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation chapter 11 teaches the (Two Witnesses) will be individuals that have physical bodies that die, and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, their bodies will be raised before a world watching

The (Two Witnesses) will be representing the Lord Jesus Christ on earth in plagues as seen in the Revelation, they aren't the (False Prophet) as suggested, who is aligned in partnership with (The Beast) in evil deception

Do you believe everyone who calls Jesus lord will enter the kingdom of heaven or only those who do God's will and listen to what his son has taught? 

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

The speculation train has completely gone off it's track and tries to move forward by spinning it's wheels in the tall thick grass.

Why would the people marvel at seeing missiles? Have they been living under a rock that missiles are something that they've never seen before?

By injecting actual scripture.. In the OT Elijah called fire down from heaven.. however that does not mean that it was modern weaponry of missiles (mwm).

Even with putting the action into the future.. that still doesn't mean that mwm would be used. The text doesn't compare the fire to be like or as something else.

So the reader is grammatically stuck with "fire".

Besides the fire comes out of their mouths. So if missiles are coming out of their mouths as you use your modern assertions.. the two witnesses would have to be transformed into (I'm not a war arsenal expert) whatever military apparatus the missiles are put in till they are blasted out. Yet Rev.11:3 states that the two witnesses will prophesy .. and that they are clothed in sackcloth. Clearly they are people.

I wonder what your brain imagines when you read in Rev.19:12 that Jesus' eyes are a flame of fire. What is being talked about there.. bursted fireworks instead of gloriously glowing pupils?

The word fire which comes out of a military commanders mouth is just that. 

"FIRE" 

Anyone can say "FIRE". 

But the armed forces who takeaway the daily sacrifice will cause fire to come down from heaven by either of the commanders just saying the word fire. It's a common practice. 

They can even place the abomination of desolation in any city they wish and kill everyone in that city. 

They will in fact destroy many cities in that manner. 

Let's keep in mind who is in control of Jerusalem for those 42 months before we believe they are holy. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-39.htm

He doesn't sound like Elijah to me. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Revelation Man]

On 5/24/2022 at 2:20 AM, Joulre2abba said:

Your assertion that the two witnesses are gentiles is problematic.

The verse you cite says that they are clothed in sackcloth. That is distinct to the Jewish culture concerning prophets. Such as John the Baptist.

Of course, he is down the rabbit hole on a bunch of things. It is what it is.

On 5/24/2022 at 2:20 AM, Joulre2abba said:

The gentiles who trample the outer court would refer to those who built the dome of the rock on the pavement where the Jewish Temple used to occupy.

 

Not really. You are conflating two different things. What John is told to do in Rev. 11 (most don't see this tbh) is to give the PARAMETERS of the coming Two-witnesses, just like Jesus was told to ONLY GO to the Jewish peoples (Israel/Lost sheep) via his ministry. The Outer Court is the place Gentiles were allowed to come and pray unto God, they could not enter the Temple, nor of course the Holy of holies. Now recognize the words John is told to write, "MEASURE" that is very important, John is told to measure something, and in essence it is the coming Two-witnesses callings or their Ministries on earth. 

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The Wailing Wall is a part of the old Gentile Court the Gentiles were allowed to come to and pray etc. etc. So, John is giving us the Two-witnesses parameters of who they are called unto via their ministry, their job is to get Israel to REPENT. Malachi 4:5-6 says as much, Behold I will send you Elijah BEFORE the great and dreadful day of the Lord, and he will turn Israel back unto God.

So, the measurement is THER CALLING, go to the Jews ONLY, for only THEY can worship in the temple and at the altar, LEAVE OFF the Gentile Court means the Two-witnesses have not been sent to preach repentance unto the Gentiles, but to pray down Judgment against them.

 

Only Jews could go into the Temple, and Altar area. The building above is the Temple, the area surrounding it is the Gentile Court. John is being shown by Jesus/God whom the Two-witnesses are being sent unto in Rev. 11:1-3.

On 5/24/2022 at 2:20 AM, Joulre2abba said:

A: You are mistaken indeed. Because you seek to connect the two witnesses to being gentiles with your only reference of them as being obviously evil. Plus you somehow erroneously manage to change two witnesses to the one second beast who has two horns on his head.

Yes, he is mistaken on a lot of his End Time Eschatology. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:05 AM, Joulre2abba said:

I haven't got the information on easy copy/paste from a prewritten notepad. Just look at when the Roman Empire faded out and the ten kingdoms showed up. The ten being the first ten nations to join the E.U. Just archive the news reports.. They (Brussels +) are the iron/strength while (Greece +) are the weak/clay. The iron tyrannically enforces harsh policies onto the clay.

The UK/Brexit is mentioned in Daniel.. (1 of 3) that will leave. There's talk that Italy may be Italexit. And also Germany (Gerexit?)

God used numbers all throughout the bible, Hebrew had only 4000 or so words and no vowels, so God used numbers with a purpose. The book of Revelation is a giant code book and the old testament is where we solve the encoded secrets. For instance the Woman in Rev. 12 can only be solved by turning to Gen. 37:9 where Joseph had a dream of the Sun, Moon and 11 Stars bowing down before him (he was the 12th star) thus as we all know it refers to Israel. Out of 404 verses in the old testament 289 have old testament verbiage in them.

10 means completion, 12 means fulness, 3 stands for God, 7 for Divine Completion, 6 stands for man, 8 for new beginnings etc. 

So, is there 7000 that God has saved himself of the Jews or is it 144,000 Jews? Or would both be correct by using God's CODES? In Zechariah 13:8-9 we are told 1/3 repent and call God their God and 2/3  refuse to repent and die. We know there are 10 million Jews living in Israel and 15 million in the whole world, so 3-5 million Jews will be saved, these are those Paul calls ALL Israel in Rom. 11.

So, how can 7000, 144,000 and 3-5 million all be the same? 

7 (Divine Completion) x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 7000

12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 144,000

They both simply mean ALL Israel who repents, or as Zechariah 13 says 1/3 of the Jews or 3-5 million Jews. So, it not 7000 its not 144,000 those are CODE WORDS just like Babylon is code for the WHOLE WORLD (Rev 16:19 says so), just like the Woman means Israel etc. etc. The 144,000 in Rev. 7 is the Jews who repented fleeing Judea unto the Bozra/Petra mountains/sheep fold where God will protect them for 1260 days. It is not just males either, just like the 10 Virgin Brides are not all female nor virgins, they are the whole Church, and half of the Church will not make the marriage via the pre trib Rapture. So, I understand how God uses numbers.

The 10 Commandments are a stand in for God's complete laws. There are two laws which Jesus stated that in them all can be fulfilled, (Love your neighbor as yourself, and love God with all of your heart) so 10 stands for all God's laws.

In Rev. 2:10 we see the church of Smyrna were told they would have tribulation 10 days, well that means for the complete church age. Jesus told us in John 16:33 that all time on earth is Tribulation. 

In Revelation we see that John writes about the 7 Spirits and 7 Eyes which simply means God SEES ALL and is EVERYWHERE. Divine Completion

The 10 toes and 10 horns mean Completion, not 10. The 7 Heads equal Divine Completion and means God will get Israel to repent at that time in which the 7th head is over Israel. The 10 horns represent Europe.

Look at Rev. 12s 7 Heads and 10 Horns, it tells us this is about Satan (Dragon Beast) because there are 7 CROWNS on the 7 Heads, and it being seen in heaven means its about Satan who resides in Heaven and is over the 7 heads.

The Rev. 13 Beast has the CROWNS on the 10 horns, and the Beast is not seen in Heaven but arises out of the [Mediterranean] Sea, thus its about 7 Kingdoms from Egypt, to Babylon, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ, and the LAST BEAST has 10 Horns and on those horns CROWNS. He is the Man Beast/Little Horn who arises in the E.U. amongst the 10 (COMPLETE Europe). Then conquers Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region like all the rest did.

The Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast has NO CROWNS, because he is not over Satan in the spiritual realm on earth, and he is not a human thus he can have no physical kingdom on earth. He does have one kingdom, but it is over the Bottomless Pit. He is Apollyon. 

The 10 in Daniel 2 and 7 represents COMPLETE Europe, not 10 kings or nations.

As per the 3, that is nuanced tbh and I never say I know something till I know it. The Beast in some manner overcomes three, so I don't see that tbh, as three nations pulling back. It could just mean the Fourth Beast took the place of the other three in Daniel and wound up ruling all the area in the end times. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Revelation Man

[truth7t7]

8 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

Your assertion that the two witnesses are gentiles is problematic.

The verse you cite says that they are clothed in sackcloth. That is distinct to the Jewish culture concerning prophets. Such as John the Baptist.

The gentiles who trample the outer court would refer to those who built the dome of the rock on the pavement where the Jewish Temple used to occupy.

- "If I'm not mistaken, those gentiles are the second beast with two horns. AKA the false prophet."

A: You are mistaken indeed. Because you seek to connect the two witnesses to being gentiles with your only reference of them as being obviously evil. Plus you somehow erroneously manage to change two witnesses to the one second beast who has two horns on his head.

However, if you follow the two witnesses along in their time on the earth. They are the two olive trees (anointed of God) who oppose the anti-christ and the false prophet.. till they are killed then are resurrected and ascend into heaven.

While the anti-christ and the false prophet are thrown into hell by one of God's strong angels.

It's my belief the prophets (Two Witnesses) returned will be (Enoch/Elijah) who never experienced physical death, I previously explained this in the thread