Heleadethme Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Starise said: I see Catholicism as an enemy to true Christianity and as such, it needs to be brought to light. Yes there are divisions in the Catholic church, Greek Orthodox and so forth. I don't see them varying a lot in their core beliefs. This isn't to say there aren't believers in the Catholic church either, yet that isn't the jist of the discussion which was Catholic .vs Christian. The discussion is about CATHOLICISM .vs CHRISTIAN and when we take it down to the nitty gritty CATHOLICISM is in direct rebellion to the Scriptures in many areas. Some here want to bring people into this. Almost as if we are picking on individuals. No. We are looking at what Catholics teach. To look at a teaching compared to scripture should be no disservice to anyone. While I agree with @Marathoner that God reaches out to us not using religion, religion is what we are evaluating and so we should feel no guilt in evaluating it. And I'll admit I am confused with some of the comments. Some here say they are not Catholic, yet are staunchly defending them as if they are Catholic and even have plans to attend a Catholic church. I don't think it's fair to accuse persons who have been Catholics for 30 years or more of ignorance of the Catholic faith or belief systems. Basically I see contradictions all over the place here. How can you be not for something but not against it? I hear you. And now here's me getting some things of my chest: CatholicISM is not of God and leads many souls astray. If that offends anyone here, they don't have to participate in this thread if they don't want to. We are certainly free to discuss this or any subject as that is what forums are for. Instead of pointing out the errors and dangers of the Catholic belief system, for the benefit of those reading or participating, this thread has become about chastising and accusing those who are trying to point them out. Jesus said to think not that He came to bring peace on the earth but a sword. Elsewhere scripture says to turn away from those who have a form of Godliness but deny the power. Also says those who have not the Spirit of God are none of His. Which brings us to where the inspired word of God says to be not unequally yoked with unbelievers...but to come out from among them to be received by Him. One would think that efforts to return to or remain according to the plumbline of God's word in our faith and walk ought to be helped, not opposed. It's murky and puzzling as to where some folks stand. We're either on the side of the truth or we're not. GOD is not the author of confusion, and I hope I'm mistaken, but to me it seems as though efforts are being made to throw sand in our faces on this subject. If anyone wants to start a thread pointing out the errors with Protestantism or Protestant Evangelism, they are free to do so, and I probably would contribute to it too, Lord permitting, but that isn't what this particular thread happens to be about. And I want to say also that neither is this some sort of competition between Catholicism or Protestantism as some seemed to be trying to frame it. Edited May 24, 2022 by Heleadethme 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,269 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,891 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Starise said: Well I'm getting a queasy feeling responding because I am picking up on a 'them' and 'us' approach. I wish it could be an 'us' approach. What do WE Christians believe and why. In this case I am forced to look at something that wants to be Christian but has many issues and I'm addressing a person who seems to be fascinated with it. You seem to like historical insight which I also find interesting. I'm also very concerned with where things are in the here and now. If anything I see the Catholic church (not necessarily the RCC) getting WORSE and more apostate over time right along with many Protestant churches. Since we are addressing the Catholic church up against Christianity, then when we look at the differences .vs the similarities it's crazy how different it is. Authoritative tradition? Whose authority are we talking about? Because if you talk to a Catholic this is THEIR tradition.If you talk to a practicing Jews this is THEIR tradition. I don't look at something as represented by something else. I look at the pure deal. For me the pure deal is the bible which shows how many of the ancient practices were simply replaced by the blood of Christ. I see the Lord has simplified it for us. Narrowed it down. Truly our savior is not trying to add more burdens to us. He is taking them away through Jesus.Simplification. No longer do we need all of these rites and priests. The way to the cross is based on acknowledgement and obedience, is not difficult. I know for a fact some prefer a feeling of awe in a church service made possible by long robes, tall hats, incense, chants in Latin done in large buildings that look like works of art. Something about all of that seems more spiritual. Closer to God Himself. To me this is all inert icing on a bland cake. I look for authenticity, even if it wears blue jeans. In fact I prefer that over the other because there's nothing to hide behind. It's all about Jesus. A synagogue is anywhere Jesus is and two or three are gathered together. Jewish tradition and bible tradition are two different things. When God saved me he didn't point me to a rabbi. One of the the nicest posts I've read on this forum. I believe you allowed the spirit some freedom here. Thanks for the time and effort, Starise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,269 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,891 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, Heleadethme said: I hear you. And now here's me getting some things of my chest: CatholicISM is not of God and leads many souls astray. If that offends anyone here, they don't have to participate in this thread if they don't want to. We are certainly free to discuss this or any subject as that is what forums are for. Instead of pointing out the errors and dangers of the Catholic belief system, for the benefit of those reading or participating, this thread has become about chastising and accusing those who are trying to point them out. Jesus said to think not that He came to bring peace on the earth but a sword. Elsewhere scripture says to turn away from those who have a form of Godliness but deny the power. Also says those who have not the Spirit of God are none of His. Which brings us to where the inspired word of God says to be not unequally yoked with unbelievers...but to come out from among them to be received by Him. One would think that efforts to return to or remain according to the plumbline of God's word in our faith and walk ought to be helped, not opposed. It's murky and puzzling as to where some folks stand. We're either on the side of the truth or we're not. GOD is not the author of confusion, and I hope I'm mistaken, but to me it seems as though efforts are being made to throw sand in our faces on this subject. If anyone wants to start a thread pointing out the errors with Protestantism or Protestant Evangelism, they are free to do so, and I probably would contribute to it too, Lord permitting, but that isn't what this particular thread happens to be about. And I want to say also that neither is this some sort of competition between Catholicism or Protestantism as some seemed to be trying to frame it. I wish I had the wisdom/ability you have to put things in such succinct perspective. You and Starise have posted the heart of what I think many here were trying. We all love catholics. We disagree with what they are taught. Thanks mucho, Heleadethme... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,890 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,777 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Starise said: I dislike when I do my best to explain and someone tells me I didn't explain Oh well I tried my best. No animosity here from me. Can you please tell me EXACTLY where you are in terms of belief right now? What do you believe to be true? For those you disagree with why? I guess I am having some difficulty pinning down what the source of the issues might be? I won't try to figure you out. I'll see if you will tell me what's going on? You have already said you take issue with what we've said, but I'm not sure what it is we said that was offensive? I didn't want an us .vs them. That was my point. I don't enjoy conflict believe it or not. I did not like the personal questions in more than one way. The members were invited to contribute to this thread. The contributions not to be used as a fishing bate, and pass judgment on others, with the moto, if you don't joint us in speaking about the Catholic church they way we do, then we will someone who was with us, it's not one of us because he was not one of us from the beginning. This is a discussion group, a discussion for discovery, to point out misinformation without prejudice to the participants. NO one is on trial, and we should not put anyone on the defensive mode, as this is not about the person and about them, and no one should be accused or been harassed in such way as to be put in a position to having to respond to interrogative questions, as this is not the reason or the subject of the thread... Making comments about the person and asking personal question....think about that, without prejudice. Edited May 24, 2022 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,890 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,777 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) This is what often happens, and results to having the thread get locked up... We can learn a lot from this types of threads. Hearing both sides...and hearing how the non Catholics view their brothers in Christ because of their faith in Jesus Christ and who also are sharing in the same scriptures. But not sharing in the same culture. What is the Catholic culture, how their sins are forgiven, and is there a need to have forgiveness of sins after someone has died... Can a believer in the Catholic culture die and be found still in his sins? When Luther protested he used the Bible he had recieved from the RCC. They did not accused him for reading the bible, but because the Job to bring the change is that of the active Pope, if those who control the Cardinals would let him. The active Pope can introduce his own teaching and change traditions he does not have to follow anyone...and Luther was not a Pope...and offence was taken. He talked to them, and they made changes...but not the change Luther was asking. Edited May 24, 2022 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,666 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: I did not like the personal questions in more than one way. The members were invited to contribute to this thread. The contributions not to be used as a fishing bate, and pass judgment on others, with the moto, if you don't joint us in speaking about the Catholic church they way we do, then we will someone who was with us, it's not one of us because he was not one of us from the beginning. This is a discussion group, a discussion for discovery, to point out misinformation without prejudice to the participants. NO one is on trial, and we should not put anyone on the defensive mode, as this is not about the person and about them, and no one should be accused or been harassed in such way as to be put in a position to having to respond to interrogative questions, as this is not the reason or the subject of the thread... Making comments about the person and asking personal question....think about that, without prejudice. I don't believe asking a question to try and understand what's going on is a bad thing. I am not trying to pass judgement, God is my witness. In your rush to judge me YOU have passed judgement. I was simply attempting to understand where she was coming from because in all honesty I have no earthly idea. It seemed to me there were several opposing things going on in the discussion. I can't respond to a poster who I can't get a grip on what it is they are trying to put across. Harassed? Who was harassed here??????? Individuals participated in a discussion with concerns and others responded. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,890 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,777 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 We understand that RCC have prayers for having the sins forgiven for those who have died... That's suggest that they believe that a believer in Jesus Christ after he dies he is found in his sins... The question is not and also it is if this is truth... But also the question revolves to the protestant groups....what do they believe about this matter...can a believer in Jesus Christ be found in his sins at the time of his death. Or can his sins at the time of his death be counted against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,890 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,777 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Starise said: I don't believe asking a question to try and understand what's going on is a bad thing. I am not trying to pass judgement, God is my witness. In your rush to judge me YOU have passed judgement. I was simply attempting to understand where she was coming from because in all honesty I have no earthly idea. It seemed to me there were several opposing things going on in the discussion. I can't respond to a poster who I can't get a grip on what it is they are trying to put across. Harassed? Who was harassed here??????? Individuals participated in a discussion with concerns and others responded. A contributor has a right to privacy. A contribution is meant to informed. It does not necessarily has to reflect the views and beliefs of the contributor...it may be in an non prejudicial way...to hear both sides, or maybe they are more than two sides and actually they are... Paul found support from non Christians in Athens...they run to his side and took him with them, when some people started talking about him, and not about what he brought to their attention... Everything that happens it happens for a reason to discuss the issues and without be influenced as who is the one who is doing the talking, without letting personal preference persuade us to agree, because we do not want to expess our disagreement for our reasons. You gave me an insight to that and I am trying to exercise it with caution. Do some protestants hold the belief that the sins of a believer in Jesus Christ can be counted against him after he dies. The RCC, and the orthodox believe that...because they pray and do good deeds for their dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: I did not like the personal questions in more than one way. The members were invited to contribute to this thread. The contributions not to be used as a fishing bate, and pass judgment on others, with the moto, if you don't joint us in speaking about the Catholic church they way we do, then we will someone who was with us, it's not one of us because he was not one of us from the beginning. This is a discussion group, a discussion for discovery, to point out misinformation without prejudice to the participants. NO one is on trial, and we should not put anyone on the defensive mode, as this is not about the person and about them, and no one should be accused or been harassed in such way as to be put in a position to having to respond to interrogative questions, as this is not the reason or the subject of the thread... Making comments about the person and asking personal question....think about that, without prejudice. You seem to be misunderstanding. There is a fair amount of confusion on this thread and Starise was courteously trying to understand where you're coming from, that's all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 24, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: Can a believer in the Catholic culture die and be found still in his sins? If that person relies on catholic culture and not belief in Christ for salvation then yes that person dies lost in their sins. The same as anyone else who does not believe in Christ. Please note: I did NOT say all catholics do not believe in Christ. Nor did I say all catholics are unsaved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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