Daniel 9:26, 27 explained through New Test verses? YES? or no

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I am so happy that I don't know all the things everyone else does about this world.  For me, the words of God have to sit correct with the words of God and I will believe 'the History of Mankind' when it has been purified 7 times, until then, what ever aligns with GODS WORDS is correct what ever doesn't,  isn't.  Easy as that.  


I must admit I don't understand how you see the crucifixion 'in the midst of the 70th week' when we are told it is after the 62 weeks.  

It the sacrifice and oblation that ceases in the midst of the week, not when the crucifixion and resurrection*.  It is when I see the two witnesses being sent to earth, right before Satan arrives in person with his angels.  

Not sure how that even becomes a thought, it seems straight forward.  The sacrifice and oblation CEASE when the image is set up.  What 'ceases' when the whole world is deceived into believing Christ has returned and the worship of the image is the worship of HIM?  

REMEMBER WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT SACRIFICE?  

Hosea 6:4 O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Hosea 6:7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

GOD WANTS OUR LOVE and wants us to KNOW WHO HE IS.  He wants us to love and know Him so well that WHEN AN IMPOSTER comes along and WITH LIES and deception tries to  take our LOVE and prayers away from HIM, we know Him so well that we are like 'kill me because YOU ARE NOT MY GOD and I will never say that you are'.  It's NOT LIKE Satan hasn't done it before, is it?  So, GOD wants those who love Him to STAND UP FOR HIM AND HIS AWESOMENESS.  He doesn't want ANYONE to sway us because HE IS SO FAR ABOVE what anyone else could ever even pretend to be, HE PROBABLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT COULD HAPPEN AT ALL.  



offer sacrifice
From zabach; properly, a slaughter, i.e. The flesh of an animal; by implication, a sacrifice (the victim or the act) -- offer(- ing), sacrifice.
 

gift, oblation, meat offering, present, sacrifice
From an unused root meaning to apportion, i.e. Bestow; a donation; euphemistically, tribute; specifically a sacrificial offering (usually bloodless and voluntary) -- gift, oblation, (meat) offering, present, sacrifice.


I believe my post showed the order I believe everything takes place and why, and I think you may have told me before how you came to your belief, so if it isn't too hard could you either repeat it or share the post again?  See where we go separate ways and figure out why, IF you don't mind.  

but either way THANK YOU for the reply, because even when we disagree, you never make me feel bad,  and I truly appreciate that.  


*I believe THOUGH I have never seen it written that when Christ rises from the dead and all those who are saved follow Him out of there, and Satan finds out that NEVER AGAIN will he have any power over a saved soul, and they won't even step near Hades at the death of their flesh body,  THAT is what makes Him mad and the war in heaven begins with HIM accusing us day and night to GOD.  Just thoughts and I can't see another one.  All seemed well enough when he was going to and fro in Job.....

Thank you for your response. I am in the middle of something with Daniel 9 right now and I don’t want to lose the thought. I would like to take time reading this post and answering it the best I can… later on this evening… Charlie 

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for your response. I am in the middle of something with Daniel 9 right now and I don’t want to lose the thought. I would like to take time reading this post and answering it the best I can… later on this evening… Charlie 

Today tomorrow next week  no hurries no worries.  Lots of time I am in the middle of a response and next thing I know I am reading an entire book.  Usually somewhere in the is something relevant I would have never thought of myself so let the Lord lead on...God bless your study

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AND AFTER, not during.  Have you taken that into account?  Because it matters.  

Which by your wrong assumption or theory could be ad infinitum, or 200 years or 1000 years or 2000 years. To be honest this is MIND BOGGLING to me that anyone would even dare argue this, its like a 5th grader arguing with Einstein abut his theory of relativity. Your argument is just not remotely possible. You try and bend all known facts to make the HE Jesus, it is not Jesus !! ALL THREE are MARKERS !!!

Daniyel 9:25 Know 3045 z8799 therefore and understand, 7919 z8686 [that] from x4480 the going forth 4161 of the commandment 1697 to restore 7725 z8687 and to build 1129 z8800 Yærûšälaim יְרוּשָׁלִַם 3389 unto x5704 the Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 the Prince 5057 [shall be] seven 7651 weeks, 7620 and threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks: 7620 the street 7339 shall be built 1129 z8738 again, 7725 z8799 and the wall, 2742 even in troublous 6695 times. 6256

9:26 And after 310 threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks 7620 shall Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 be cut off, 3772 z8735 but not x369 for himself: and the people 5971 of the prince 5057 that shall come 935 z8802 shall destroy 7843 z8686 the city 5892 and the sanctuary; 6944 and the end 7093 thereof [shall be] with a flood, 7858 and unto x5704 the end 7093 of the war 4421 desolations 8074 z8802 are determined. 2782 z8737

So, we get a measurement from one MARKER to the next MARKER the Wall to Jess DEATH !! And the verses are not divided correctly, half of verse 26 goes with verse 25 and the other half goes with verse 27.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks(49 Years), and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (he DIES after 434 YEARS not AFTER 437 1/2 years), but not for himself: 

 

and the people(Rome) of the prince(look.....SMALL p, means this is the Anti-Christ)  that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (SMALL p guy) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Jesus IS the sacrifice, why would he stop Israel from worshiping himself as God? Makes no sense at all in that light) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is really, really bad Eschatology sister. 

 

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And just like Jesus told them NOT A STONE LEFT STANDING, that prophecy was fulfilled when the Romans did come and destroy the temple,

What are you even talking about? The 70th week CAN NOT START until the Anti-Christ and Israel during the END TIMES comes to an AGREEMENT which will last for 7 years. The Temple being destroyed has nothing to do with the 490 year Prophecy whatsoever.

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AND THE END shall be with a flood,  why are you going back to the Roman Army?  They already completed their thing.  WHAT lies were they telling?  They weren't lying to anyone about anything.  

Because that is what the VERSE MEANS, people (Roman Armies) of the prince to come (Anti-Christ who 2000 some odd years later will make the 7 Year Agreement with Israel).....HE....HE....HE makes an Agreement with MANY (Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region Nations. The verse tells us where Israel will be for that 2000 year period after the FLOOD (Army) destroys Jerusalem and carries them off it is called DESOLATIONS. 

Desolation 

#8074 שָׁמֵם shamem {shaw-mame'}

 a primitive root; TWOT - 2409; v
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) to be desolate, be appalled, stun, stupefy
    1a) (Qal)
        1a1) to be desolated, be deflowered, be deserted, be appalled
        1a2) to be appalled, be awestruck
    1b) (Niphal)
        1b1) to be desolated, be made desolate
        1b2) to be appalled
    1c) (Polel)
        1c1) to be stunned
        1c2) appalling, causing horror (participle)

Israel is judged, she is left DESOLATE, toted off to all the Nations of the world. Verse 26s Desolations are 70 AD, verse 27s Desolations are of the Anti-Christ, BOTH are spoken about remember, the People (Romans) of the prince to come (2000 years later) will destroy Jerusalem with a flood (Army) and leave her DESOLATE. Then 2000 years later we see this HE (A.C.) make an AGREEMENT with Israel and the MANY, and he will again bring DESOLATION unto Israel, this time for 1260 days, just as Dan. 12:7 tells us will happen.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;(1260 days)  and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BUT if that didn't get your attention and bring you to the time and UNTO THE END of the war desolations are determined

WHAT IS THE WAR?  Same war from the very beginning of the book to the very end.  There was NO WAR with the Romans, there was destruction of the temple.  

I shant go through all of your quotes of verses because you do not eve fit the right verses with the right understandings of said verses. 

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And so the last week will be about the rising up from the sea of SATANS LAST KINGDOM on earth.  It will start to come together and then the deadly would RIGHT SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK.  

ALSO, in the middle of the week THE IMAGE for WORSHIP is set up,  If the whole world is not worshipping the IMAGE, you can bet all offerings to GOD have ceased.  There is no LOVE/SACRIFICE going in HIS direction because there has been a FALLING AWAY and shortly the man of sin will be revealed by the brightness of the Lords Return.  

THAT WAR will end with the WRATH OF GOD BEING POURED OUT ON THOSE WHO have been deceived.  

The 70th week can not start until after the Church Is Raptured. PERIOD.

The WHOLE WORLD is not conquered by the Anti-Christ, 1/3 of it burns up, he only conquers the 7 Heads territory, he comes from the 10 Horns territory (E.U.) The supposed FALLING AWAY is the Departure of the Church in 2 Thess. 2:1-6. The Church is long gone by the time the Beast comes to power. 

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT IN THAT DEATH IS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE THEY ARE LOVING THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH,  SO PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR SOULS, THOUGH THEIR FLESH IS REMAINING ALIVE.  (except Gods elect given up for 10 day trial)


WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Rev. 2 is about the Church Age Saints, not the 70th week. The 10 DAYS (COMPLETION) means there will be tribulation for the ENTIRE Church Age, as Jesus confirms in John 16:33.

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I see how you see the 1260 days.  And this is where we disagree.  I see the spiritual deaths and you see physical deaths.  BUT if it were Christ and not the Instead of, He would not be 'putting people on trial' and 'killing massive people who didn't worship Him, HE WOULD BE TEACHING.  So that would be the example Satan would most try and emulate.  Satan is performing MIRACLES.  He is transformed into an ANGEL OF LIGHT.  

That is only done to try and TRICK the Jews in the Petra/Bozrah area (3-5 million not 144,000 which is a CODE) into coming out where they can kill them. 

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The 'mass' killing taking place, the hardships for the world, the times of TROUBLE like wars and death, THAT isn't heavenly at all, that is EARTHLY.  

WHAT were we told?  Not by the PRE TRIB DOCTRINE but in the words of God?

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

He is trying to kill EVERY Jews because that would make all God's Prophesies a lie. Its that simple. 

 

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It saddens God to see you judging His servants. Though 'saddens' doesn't really cover it, does it?

I think it's simply amazing you can even see us from way up there

You will see when you get to Heaven, all Eschatology you traded in was in error. 

 

God Bless. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Charlie744]

28 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Which by your wrong assumption or theory could be ad infinitum, or 200 years or 1000 years or 2000 years. To be honest this is MIND BOGGLING to me that anyone would even dare argue this, its like a 5th grader arguing with Einstein abut his theory of relativity. Your argument is just not remotely possible. You try and bend all now facts to make the HE Jesus, it is not Jesus !! ALL THREE are MARKERS !!!

Daniyel 9:25 Know 3045 z8799 therefore and understand, 7919 z8686 [that] from x4480 the going forth 4161 of the commandment 1697 to restore 7725 z8687 and to build 1129 z8800 Yærûšälaim יְרוּשָׁלִַם 3389 unto x5704 the Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 the Prince 5057 [shall be] seven 7651 weeks, 7620 and threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks: 7620 the street 7339 shall be built 1129 z8738 again, 7725 z8799 and the wall, 2742 even in troublous 6695 times. 6256

9:26 And after 310 threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks 7620 shall Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 be cut off, 3772 z8735 but not x369 for himself: and the people 5971 of the prince 5057 that shall come 935 z8802 shall destroy 7843 z8686 the city 5892 and the sanctuary; 6944 and the end 7093 thereof [shall be] with a flood, 7858 and unto x5704 the end 7093 of the war 4421 desolations 8074 z8802 are determined. 2782 z8737

So, we get a measurement from one MARKER to the next MARKER the Wall to Jess DEATH !! And the verses are not divided correctly, half of verse 26 goes with verse 25 and the other half goes with verse 27.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks(49 Years), and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (he DIES after 434 YEARS not AFTER 437 1/2 years), but not for himself: 

 

and the people(Rome) of the prince(look.....SMALL p, means this is the Anti-Christ)  that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (SMALL p guy) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Jesus IS the sacrifice, why would he stop Israel from worshiping himself as God? Makes no sense at all in that light) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is really, really bad Eschatology sister. 

 

What are you even talking about? The 70th week CAN NOT START until the Anti-Christ and Israel during the END TIMES comes to an AGREEMENT which will last for 7 years. The Temple being destroyed has nothing to do with the 490 year Prophecy whatsoever.

Because that is what the VERSE MEANS, people (Roman Armies) of the prince to come (Anti-Christ who 2000 some odd years later will make the 7 Year Agreement with Israel).............HE.......HE.......HE makes an Agreement with MANY (Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region Nations. The verse tells us where Israel will be fir that 2000 year period after the FLOOD (Army) destroys Jerusalem and carries them off it is called DESOLATIONS. 

Desolation 

#8074 שָׁמֵם shamem {shaw-mame'}

 a primitive root; TWOT - 2409; v
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) to be desolate, be appalled, stun, stupefy
    1a) (Qal)
        1a1) to be desolated, be deflowered, be deserted, be appalled
        1a2) to be appalled, be awestruck
    1b) (Niphal)
        1b1) to be desolated, be made desolate
        1b2) to be appalled
    1c) (Polel)
        1c1) to be stunned
        1c2) appalling, causing horror (participle)

Israel is judged, she is left DESOLATE, toted off to all the Nations of the world. Verse 26s Desolations are 70 AD, verse 27s Desolations are of the Anti-Christ, BOTH are spoken about remember, the People (Romans) of the prince to come (2000 years later) will destroy Jerusalem with a flood (Army) and leave her DESOLATE. Then 2000 years later we see this HE (A.C.) make an AGREEMENT with Israel and the MANY, and he will again bring DESOLATION unto Israel, this time for 1260 dats, just as Dan. 12:7 tells us will happen.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;(1260 days)  and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

I shant go through all of your quotes of verses because you do not eve fit the right verses with the right understandings of said verses. 

The 70th week can not start until after the Church Is Raptured. PERIOD.

The WHOLE WORLD is not conquered by the Anti-Christ, 1/3 of it burns up, l he only conquers the 7 Heads territory, he comes from the 10 Horns territory (E.U.) The supposed FALLING AWAY is the Departure of the Church in 2 Thess. 2:1-6. The Church is log gone by the time the Beast comes to power. 

Rev. 2 is about the Church Age Saints, not the 70th week. The 10 DAYS (COMPLETION) means there will be tribulation for the ENTIRE Church Age, as Jesu confirms in John 16:33.

That is only done to try and TRICK the Jews in the Petra/Bozrah area (3-5 million not 144,000 which is a CODE) into coming out where they can kill them. 

He is trying to kill EVERY Jews because that would make all God's Prophesies a lie. Its that simple. 

 

You will see when you get to Heaven, all Eschatology you traded in was in error. 

 

God Bless. 

Since I began my study of the book of Daniel I can not tell you how many different interpretations are "out there" for MOST of the important prophetic verses in Daniel. I am going to speak in generalities for a movement since this will get my point across without bringing in actual interpretations - for the moment. I am going to ball park it - let's say there are 50 MAJOR prophetic verses in the 12 chapters of Daniel. Let's also estimate that 15 of these are interpreted in the exact manner by ALL the noted scholars, academics, theologians, students of the bible, etc. (whether they be from Augustine or Origen to Gill, Barnes, Clark, Newtown, Young, Walvoord, Goldingay, Collins, Baldwin, Henry, Benson, Ellicott, Kiel.... and on and on and on).  Meaning ALL these brilliant folks AGREE on 15 of the 50 MAJOR interpretations in Daniel. Now that really is not too difficult to imagine since those 15 will be all found within the first 5 or 6 chapters of Daniel. And within those early chapters, God is sort of spoon feeding us by identifying at least 3 of the 4 kingdoms and identifying the primary actors like Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.  So at the end of chapter 6 things look relatively good for these interpreters - some differences but they are in the same ball park.

Then we come to chapter 7 and "everything hits the fan". Now, there maybe multiple interpretations for many of the remaining 35 MAJOR prophetic verses in these chapters and each have the tendency to bend the prophetic verses in the later chapters into another direction that makes little sense. If their earlier misinterpretations must stand then their latter interpretations must follow.... or they lose consistency and continuity and do not advance the true underlying prophetic message that God wants Daniel to give us. How can so many brilliant commentators be quoted when they can not agree with each other?

This is why I decided to study Daniel - I was told that if I wanted to understand Revelation, I must understand Daniel. After reading and understanding the "accepted interpretations" from all these brilliant folks, I came to the realization that at least one group was wrong or both.... something is seriously wrong here.

Well, there is! There are no less than 35 MAJOR misinterpretations in Daniel that almost both sides have gotten grossly wrong. And without getting into details, here are the 3 primary reasons their interpretations are faulty:

1) They all claim the first 6 books of Daniel are historical and the last are prophetic. However, they still approach the last 6 as though they are historical - they are still searching their history books for the actors and events that were easily found within the first 6 chapters. They are not going t0 find them in our history books - because the last 6 chapters are figurative, spiritual, metamorphical.... Certainly there are still references to the first 3 kingdoms but they are but a brief mention at best....

2) Which bring us to the second flaw in their approach - despite everyone's contention the first 6 chapters are historical and the last 6 are prophetic, they still try to unpack them as though they should match the actors and events in our history books. No, they will never be found in our history books because these are prophetic / spiritual messages to us... God is not going to continue using His prophetic capital by giving us another 6 chapters we can match to our history books! This book is not about the 4 kingdoms, the kings of Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander or some min0r thug like AE..... this is His Story and He is using these 4 kingdoms to walk us through His Story - which in the last 6 chapters reveals the coming Messiah (the most important event that will ever take place on this earth), His crucifixion and His resurrection. Tell me, where is all of this in your interpretations? I don't believe I noticed the Messiah or this spectacular event in most of these scholarly interpretations - certainly not in yours. If you are not looking for the Messiah in the last 6 chapters of Daniel - you will not find Him... you will have to rely and the extra-biblical records at your disposal - our history books. Personally, I an assure you  that  you do not need ANY OTHER book to interpret Daniel than want is in the Tanakh. Otherwise, you will be adding common with the holy... God did not tell Daniel to place any asterisks in his chapters telling us to  wait until our future history books are printed to get the correct interpretation. 

3) Here is the third and it is also a Biggy! Because these same scholars can not agree on these 35 MAJOR interpretations, it is easy to see how they will lead them to an unintended interpretation somewhere in the latter verses or chapters of Daniel - they must try and make them fit - they must try and align all the "fence posts" in the same line... but this is impossible. Consequently, almost ALL and you are certainly no exception, turn immediately to the book of Revelation to try and find the verse that MIGHT fit with the verse in Daniel that is just too hard to understand and interpret... now Revelation drives a misinterpretation of Daniel or a missing interpretation of Daniel - and there are so many you can not imagine. Now, both Daniel and Revelation are fully corrupted and do not produce any "true" message from God.  Bits and pieces look like they may fit and then the speculation and story building begins - and yours is a perfect example where you think God is writing about the EU and some boogeyman figure and a third Temple and the Jews will again  be massacred... on and on. Do you realize who started the 7 year tribulation period? The Jesuits did in the  late 1500's because they were considered the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8. They came up with the futurist concept of throwing the last week of Daniel far into the future so they could not possibly be labeled as the "little horn". They were immensely successful and along with that concept came the "he" in 9:27 was not "He" but "he" this anti-Christ monster who will come at the beginning of this fictitious 7 year tribulation period. And then, in the "midst of that week" this "he" monster figure will renege on this ridiculous covenant that "he" will enter into with Israel..... you can make this stuff up - but we did and it is all because we are not looking for the One this book of Daniel is written about - Jesus.

I can assure you the 7 years represent the last week of Daniel and He fulfilled all 6 requirements He was given to by His Father.

The infamous 1260 days in Daniel is a gross misinterpretation. It does not mean 3.5 years. The times, time and 1/2 time does not mean 3.5 years. The 2300 evenings and mornings  MEAN EXACTLY what they say - days! The Prince (second prince) is Titus the Roman general who will destroy Israel. However, the "he" in 9:27 is indeed the Messiah. There is no boogeyman in Daniel - the ONLY ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE is clearly identified and labeled as the "little horn". He is the one who comes out of the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome - he is the one who will rise to  the top of the 4th beast kingdom (papal Rome) after the 4th beast of pagan Rome was slain and its body destroyed. He (the papacy) is the one who corrupts God's Word and has been doing so for 1500 years - he is right in front of us. 

There is also one more thing - I do understand your believe YOU BELIEVE you have been given prophetic vision or understanding and you make that quite well known - if fact, almost every chance you get.... I don't believe you have ANY ABILITY to learn or listen to  others.... And I am sure it is because YOU BELIEVE you are in the know..... You need to tell … and not learn or listen to others - it is not a good look.

I would respectfully request that you might take it down a notch when talking with people such as DeighAnn and who are clearly searching His Word for understanding and a sense of wonder in how He can put all these pieces together..... only the mind of God can do these things...

Charlie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I would respectfully request that you might take it down a notch when talking with people such as DeighAnn and who are clearly searching His Word for understanding and a sense of wonder in how He can put all these pieces together..... only the mind of God can do these things...

Charlie

Don't come with the ole crying game guilt trip game, give it a rest, liberals are bad enough, it just just makes me SMH to ne honest. 

1.) Your whole theory is destroyed, why would I care what these "SO CALED" 35-50 Experts think? You miss everything. Why should I study those people who were mostly born in the WRONG TIME? God clearly told Daniel all this would be closed up until the very end, now why do I need to study people who were not from the VERY END TIMES (Now) ? They could not know. But I can, I am from the right TIME PERIOD (as in NOW). Thus I simply ask God to show me His truths and like a dog on a bone I will not take no for an Answer, Jacob Wrestled with God, it works, if God sees it is the right time to give understanding, He will, He is no respecter of men. So, your whole "THEORY" made no sense brother, why would anyone look to the past for insight which God has stated He was only going to give out at the VERY END? 

You are in error if you think Daniel is all about Jesus and that it is he that is seen fulfilling the Covenant in Dan. 9:27, it makes no sense honestly, he is killed after the 69th week and you guys can't see that means after 69 weeks, you add 3 1/2 years (half week) to the Prophecy. 

I know all of the book of Daniel and ALL of the book of Revelation. It is what it is, it is actually my calling of 37 years. I see a lot who love to dabble in Prophecy, but it is not their calling. I can tell right off the bat in most cases tbh. 

23 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The infamous 1260 days in Daniel is a gross misinterpretation. It does not mean 3.5 years. The times, time and 1/2 time does not mean 3.5 years. The 2300 evenings and mornings  MEAN EXACTLY what they say - days! The Prince (second prince) is Titus the Roman general who will destroy Israel. However, the "he" in 9:27 is indeed the Messiah. There is no boogeyman in Daniel - the ONLY ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE is clearly identified and labeled as the "little horn". He is the one who comes out of the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome - he is the one who will rise to  the top of the 4th beast kingdom (papal Rome) after the 4th beast of pagan Rome was slain and its body destroyed. He (the papacy) is the one who corrupts God's Word and has been doing so for 1500 years - he is right in front of us. 

All of this is wrong, I rejected everything here years ago, when I see people talking Papacy I know they do not understand Prophecy brother.  The 2300 is 2300 Evening and Morning Sacrifices, and if I go to the bathroom TWICE A DAY, how many days did it take me to go 2300 times?  https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_whistling.gif

 

This is simple stuff man.

You go off on your own journey. I do not spend my time trying to teach people who do this. It is what it is. I can chat of course, but I will not go all out to try and lead a horse to water if he refuses to be led. Its not my style. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't know much of what is written in history so it doesn't effect my beliefs much.  ALTHOUGH the Nation coming back into being did as it was a prophecy that needed to be fulfilled before any of the end times could even begin.  So I don't know what happened in 167AD.   What I am HOPING for is since we know the book of Daniel is being opened up to us, what parts of the New Testament are written that show what Daniel showed.  So I am going to go with,  'I'll take all of the above' if you have seen them.  If so I will thank you now.   Thank you.   

Jesus referred us to Daniel's information on this. "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),"

Daniel records

"And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week,i but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,j until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him" Dan 9

"29At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time will not be like the first. 30Ships of Kittimg will come against him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and rage against the holy covenant and do damage. So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation." Dan 11

"And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days." Dan 12

The one in Dan 11 is the one from 167 BC perpetrated by Antiochus IV; you can read about it here: https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1589-antiochus-iv-epiphanes

 

"A royal decree proclaimed the abolition of the Jewish mode of worship; Sabbaths and festivals were not to be observed; circumcision was not to be performed; the sacred books were to be surrendered and the Jews were compelled to offer sacrifices to the idols that had been erected. The officers charged with carrying out these commands did so with great rigor; a veritable inquisition was established with monthly sessions for investigation. The possession of a sacred book or the performance of the rite of circumcision was punished with death. On Kislew (Nov.-Dec.) 25, 168, the "abomination of desolation" (http://d3sva65x0i5hnc.cloudfront.net/V01p635001.jpg, Dan. xi. 31, xii. 11) was set up on the altar of burnt offering in the Temple, and the Jews required to make obeisance to it. This was probably the Olympian Zeus, or Baal Shamem"

It's an important part of history reflecting directly on eschatology. We are told we can understand it by looking at past prophecy and the past fulfillment of that prophecy.  Hence, Daniel's info on the A of D and the fulfillment should be noted.

This is what results.

"the transformation, by Antiochus Epiphanes, of the sacred Temple at Jerusalem into a heathen one."

You can read more here: https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/353-abomination-of-desolation

The Dan 11 mention occurred in 169-167 BC. Rome put a stop to Antiochus IV Epiphanes march to Alexandria and furious Antiochus went back to Syria, stopping along the way in 167 BC to profane the Temple and persecute the Jews. 

So that's the "What and why." "When" is in the future. There is no Temple, even ostensibly, standing where this could occur; at least to my knowledge and understanding. https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

 

 

[truth7t7]

20 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Jesus referred us to Daniel's information on this. "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),"

Daniel records

"And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week,i but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,j until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him" Dan 9

"29At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time will not be like the first. 30Ships of Kittimg will come against him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and rage against the holy covenant and do damage. So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation." Dan 11

"And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days." Dan 12

The one in Dan 11 is the one from 167 BC perpetrated by Antiochus IV; you can read about it here: https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1589-antiochus-iv-epiphanes

 

"A royal decree proclaimed the abolition of the Jewish mode of worship; Sabbaths and festivals were not to be observed; circumcision was not to be performed; the sacred books were to be surrendered and the Jews were compelled to offer sacrifices to the idols that had been erected. The officers charged with carrying out these commands did so with great rigor; a veritable inquisition was established with monthly sessions for investigation. The possession of a sacred book or the performance of the rite of circumcision was punished with death. On Kislew (Nov.-Dec.) 25, 168, the "abomination of desolation" (http://d3sva65x0i5hnc.cloudfront.net/V01p635001.jpg, Dan. xi. 31, xii. 11) was set up on the altar of burnt offering in the Temple, and the Jews required to make obeisance to it. This was probably the Olympian Zeus, or Baal Shamem"

It's an important part of history reflecting directly on eschatology. We are told we can understand it by looking at past prophecy and the past fulfillment of that prophecy.  Hence, Daniel's info on the A of D and the fulfillment should be noted.

This is what results.

"the transformation, by Antiochus Epiphanes, of the sacred Temple at Jerusalem into a heathen one."

You can read more here: https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/353-abomination-of-desolation

The Dan 11 mention occurred in 169-167 BC. Rome put a stop to Antiochus IV Epiphanes march to Alexandria and furious Antiochus went back to Syria, stopping along the way in 167 BC to profane the Temple and persecute the Jews. 

So that's the "What and why." "When" is in the future. There is no Temple, even ostensibly, standing where this could occur; at least to my knowledge and understanding. https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

 

 

I Disagree with your claim that Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC fulfilled Daniel 11:37, he was a Polythestic Greek, the future figure seen in Daniel 11:37 will be a Hebrew/Jew

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

 

(Daniel) 11:37KJV

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 

Examples: God Of His Fathers

 

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV

22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

 

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV

10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

Edited June 11, 2022 by truth7t7

[Diaste]

12 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I Disagree with your claim that Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC fulfilled Daniel 11:37, he was a Polythestic Greek, the future figure seen in Daniel 11:37 will be a Hebrew/Jew

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

 

(Daniel) 11:37KJV

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 

Examples: God Of His Fathers

 

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV

22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

 

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV

10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

Antiochus IV was the grandson of Seleucus 1 Nicator and ruled Syria.

" King of Syria; reigned from 175 B.C.; died 164. He was a son of Antiochus the Great, and, after the murder of his brother Seleucus, took possession of the Syrian throne which rightly belonged to his nephew Demetrius. This Antiochus is styled in rabbinical sources http://d3sva65x0i5hnc.cloudfront.net/V01p634002.jpg, "the wicked."

He adopted Greek and Roman philosophy certainly.

" Antiochus combined in himself the worst faults of the Greeks and the Romans, and but very few of their good qualities"

However, the point was the confrontation by Rome in 168 BC, and his return to Syria and by 167 BC the lay over in Jerusalem where the A of D occurred and the Jewish people subjugated, not lineage. 

"n 168 BC, Antiochus led a second attack on Egypt and also sent a fleet to capture Cyprus. Before he reached Alexandria, his path was blocked by a single elderly Roman ambassador named Gaius Popillius Laenas who delivered a message from the Roman Senate directing Antiochus to withdraw his armies from Egypt and Cyprus or consider himself in a state of war with the Roman Republic. Antiochus said he would discuss it with his council, whereupon the Roman envoy drew a line in the sand around Antiochus and said: "Before you leave this circle, give me a reply that I can take back to the Roman Senate." This implied Rome would declare war if the King stepped out of the circle without committing to leave Egypt immediately. Weighing his options, Antiochus decided to withdraw. Only then did Popillius agree to shake hands with him.^[11] Ancient sources and traditional historiography describe this "Day of Elesius" as a great humiliation for Antiochus IV that unhinged him for a time. Some more modern historians conjecture that Antiochus may have been more reconciled to this than ancient sources indicate, as the Roman intervention meant that Antiochus had been given an excuse to not undertake a potentially long and costly siege of Alexandria. He could instead return with treasure and loot having weakened the Egyptian state at little risk and cost compared to a larger-scale invasion."

Grainger, John D. (2010). The Syrian Wars. Brill. p. 297–308. 

Portier-Young, Anathea (2011). Apocalypse Against Empire: Theologies of Resistance in Early Judaism. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. p. 130–134

The above occurred per Daniel 11,

"At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time will not be like the first. 30Ships of Kittimg will come against him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and rage against the holy covenant and do damage. So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation."

and is confirmed by historical record.

That was the point; to understand the A of D. I'm not concerned about AE's ideology, education, imprisonment, lineage, rearing or world view; just the facts of the A of D and what we should be understanding about it.

 

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Which by your wrong assumption or theory could be ad infinitum, or 200 years or 1000 years or 2000 years. To be honest this is MIND BOGGLING to me that anyone would even dare argue this, its like a 5th grader arguing with Einstein abut his theory of relativity. Your argument is just not remotely possible. You try and bend all known facts to make the HE Jesus, it is not Jesus !! ALL THREE are MARKERS !!!

I have no idea what you are saying.  How about you just stick to explaining Scripture and not what you think of me and my abilities because if you can't teach 'a child' YOU ARE DOING NO GOOD FOR GOD.  FEED MY LAMBS, not insult them. You have gone way off the reservation.    Do it HIS WAY or don't do it at all, you and everyone else will be the better for it.  So leave that 'stuff' out of it.

MY ARGUMENT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.  Don't like WHAT IS WRITTEN,  take it up with GOD.  The only KNOWN facts are what is written.  TAKE the verses and write what you believe fits under them.  THAT IS YOUR TASK.  If you can't do that,  then you can't help.  
 

Daniel 9 24 - 27  Hebrew

 Weeks Seventy are determined for your people for city your holy to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in righteousness everlasting and to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Holy Most

Therefore Know and understand from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince

weeks seven and weeks sixty and two again

and shall be built the street and the wall and Even in troublesome times

  
And after the weeks sixty and two shall be cut off Messiah, but not for Himself

(SO AFTER THIS, ALL THE HE'S ARE NOT CHRIST, BUT THE PRINCE JESUS TOLD US SHOULD COME).

and the city and the sanctuary shall destroy the people of the prince who is to come

and the end of it with a flood and till the end of the war are determined desolations

And he (NOT CHRIST BUT THE ANTI-CHRIST) shall confirm a covenant with many for week one but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

and on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate and Even until the consummation

and which is determined is poured out on the desolate

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


Do not be deceived by ANY MAN, SATAN IS COMING FIRST and will be here until 'the consummation'  when JESUS DESTROYS SATAN WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING and the wrath of GOD is poured out.   

 

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

and the people(Rome) of the prince(look.....SMALL p, means this is the Anti-Christ)  

WHERE DOES '(ROME)' come from?  IT ISN'T WRITTEN IN MY BIBLE.  SO YOU MUST HAVE ADDED IT.  

  You don't think ALL PEOPLE  who go against GOD are of the prince of the power of the air? 

How did  YOU to decide that THE ROMANS are the Anti Christs PEOPLE?   No one before or since?   Seriously different books...

 AND HERE I was going with 

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Malachi 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

27 And he (SMALL p guy) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Jesus IS the sacrifice, why would he stop Israel from worshiping himself as God? Makes no sense at all in that light) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is really, really bad Eschatology sister. 

I don't even know where you are getting that from. 

I  NEVER SAID THAT THE HE IS CHRIST.

I SAID  -   the IMAGE THAT HE (SATAN) SETS UP to be worshipped is what causes THE LOVE AND PRAYERS THAT WERE BEING MADE TO GOD TO GO TO THE IMAGE INSTEAD.  

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.