A Mis - Understood Topic: Timing of the Rapture

[iamlamad]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:31 AM, missmuffet said:

The rapture of the Church is imminent and could happen at any time. Nothing else needs to happen before the rapture. 

Finally -  something I can agree with!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MM,

Actually Matt. 24: 30 refers to the Lord coming in great power and great glory to deliver Israel and bring vengeance upon the rebellious. The Lord, who is now at the right hand of the Father, in the Godhead does certainly know when He will come at that time.

As to the rapture, the catching away of the mature Body to meet the Lord in the air, we are told -

`...exhorting (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as YOU SEE the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

`you, brethren, are NOT in darkness that this Day should overtake you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

We, the Body of Christ are seeing the Day (of the LORD God Almighty in judgment) looming. We see the world in lawlessness, the forming of the final gentile Global Government, and the Russian Federation on the move.

However before the Day of the LORD judgments, the Body of Christ will be caught away. The Lord will have built His `called out ones,` and they will have come to the maturity of faith in knowing the truth of Christ, His character and His purposes. 

We don`t measure the Body of Christ by man`s public meetings, but know that the Lord is well able to mature His Body over the centuries and across the world in humans hearts looking to Him.

regards, Marilyn.

I could add another scripture: He will deliver us from the wrath to come. I believe the rapture will come just before the 6th seal start of God's wrath. After all, it was very shortly after John saw that when He saw the raptured church in heaven, and wrote it in chapter 7. Good job, Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

You have the wrong perspective here.  True that David is both dead and buried, and his grave/sepulcher is still with us today.  v.34 - David saw what was in the future of things about Christ, and he David was not ascended yet.  This is about when David was alive in one of his psalms. You have read the verse backwards.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Of course David is in heaven now. If not in Spirit form, then with his resurrection body. My guess is, He was probably raised up with the elders when Jesus rose from the dead. It is only a guess. Many saints have SEEN David in heaven and returned to tell about it.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

New Jerusalem is not even mentioned or inferred anywhere in John 14.  Only that Jesus will be going to the Father, and that He Jesus will bring us to where He is, with the Father.  The 3rd heaven. Anything beyond that is pure speculation.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Not quite: wherever the mansions are, He will take us to them. I suspect they are in the Holy City.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I could add another scripture: He will deliver us from the wrath to come. I believe the rapture will come just before the 6th seal start of God's wrath. After all, it was very shortly after John saw that when He saw the raptured church in heaven, and wrote it in chapter 7. Good job, Marilyn.

Thanks iamlamad,

Glad we can agree there bro.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Not quite: wherever the mansions are, He will take us to them. I suspect they are in the Holy City.

Actually iamlamad we are further up than that - on the Lord`s own throne in the highest, the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) 

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

You have the wrong perspective here.  True that David is both dead and buried, and his grave/sepulcher is still with us today.  v.34 - David saw what was in the future of things about Christ, and he David was not ascended yet.  This is about when David was alive in one of his psalms. You have read the verse backwards.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The person speaking was Peter. The date was Pentecost 50 days after Christ's resurrection and 10 days after His ascension. David still dead. He is CONTRASTED to Christ Who was, on that Pentecost, ALIVE. David is still in Hades on that Pentecost. Christ is ASCENDED. David's Psalm was CONTRAST Christ, who would not stay in Hades and Whose Body would not rot and Who would be seated at the right hand of God, with David who would stay in Hades, whose body had rotted, who had not risen, and who had not ascended as Peter spoke.

Your theory of Paradise, a captivity, being taken prisoner to heaven is thus shown to be impossible, OR, David has been left behind. The language is simple and unambiguous and cannot be read "backwards". Every other reader whose mother tongue is English will agree that Acts 2:27-34 shows Christ dead and risen and seated at the right hand of God while David, His father, who died 1,000 years earlier, is still (i) dead, (ii) in Hades, (iii) his rotted body in his sepulcher, and (iv) him NOT ASCENDED.

[branchesofHim]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:25 PM, Montana Marv said:

The ten virgins watched and waited, we must also.  For they did not know when the Bridegroom was to come.  Neither do we.

Indeed. Shalom

Matthew 24:[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
[43] But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
[44] Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

The person speaking was Peter. The date was Pentecost 50 days after Christ's resurrection and 10 days after His ascension. David still dead. He is CONTRASTED to Christ Who was, on that Pentecost, ALIVE. David is still in Hades on that Pentecost. Christ is ASCENDED. David's Psalm was CONTRAST Christ, who would not stay in Hades and Whose Body would not rot and Who would be seated at the right hand of God, with David who would stay in Hades, whose body had rotted, who had not risen, and who had not ascended as Peter spoke.

Your theory of Paradise, a captivity, being taken prisoner to heaven is thus shown to be impossible, OR, David has been left behind. The language is simple and unambiguous and cannot be read "backwards". Every other reader whose mother tongue is English will agree that Acts 2:27-34 shows Christ dead and risen and seated at the right hand of God while David, His father, who died 1,000 years earlier, is still (i) dead, (ii) in Hades, (iii) his rotted body in his sepulcher, and (iv) him NOT ASCENDED.

29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
35     until I make your enemies your footstool.”’

Chances are very good that they did not look into David's grave to see if His bones were still there.  Perhaps David was one of these:

52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints (God’s people) who had fallen asleep [in death] were raised [to life]; 53  and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city (Jerusalem) and appeared to many people. 

I am convinced that this is when God raised up the elders of the Old Testament. Someone who has been to heaven but was allowed to return to his body SAW and talked with Father Abraham, and asked him why he looked different than many other of the saints in heaven. This is what Abraham told him:

 

"The church on earth and in heaven will soon unite in one great jubilee and celebrate the final and great victories of the cross of our Lord, at the resurrection of all the saints, from the days of Abel to the end of the age. The living saints of earth as you know will all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, [at the rapture] and with divine permission and arrangement, we in heaven will all go back to the cradle of our nativity and say good morning to the church on earth. Then the great resurrection shall occur. [The Old Testament saints will rise "on the last day" at the end of the 70th week.] Then will follow the earth’s great Sabbath. [The 1000 year reign.]  Although we have been here for long ages, yet we have looked with great interest towards this event. Tender memories cluster about the scenes of childhood and early youth, and we feel glad to know we shall soon visit the place of our early experience in the world and the scenes that witnessed our salvation from sin. And then we shall receive the fullness and completion of our salvation. The redemption of our bodies. A very few of us have already had our resurrection as you see in my own case."

"I have been waiting for some time to ask," I replied, "what made the great difference between your appearance and those other happy spirits and even my own?"

"All the elders," said he, "received their resurrection at the time our Lord was raised and with Him became the first fruits of those who slept; yet we ourselves shall be freshly arrayed along with you for the marriage of the Lamb, a great event to which we all are looking.""

I am convinced Since this does not disagree in any way with the written scriptures, I choose to believe it. Was David one of these saints? Only God knows at this time. Words in [] added by me. 

 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Actually iamlamad we are further up than that - on the Lord`s own throne in the highest, the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) 

I agree what we will be at the throne. John also agrees.

Rev. 7:9 After these things I looked, and this is what I saw: a vast multitude which no one could count, [gathered] from every nation and from all the tribes and peoples and languages [of the earth], standing before the throne and before the Lamb (Christ), dressed in white robes, with [d]palm branches in their hands;