Do Christians Still Have A Sinful Nature?

[Rukkus]

Trust and Obey said . . .

Because God is in us, that's why. Being in us means that we are still here. And, we are utterly unrighteous in and of ourselves.

Well that's the thing. We arn't in ourselves. We're in Christ (2Cor 5:17). And in Him there is no sin(1Jn 3:5)

Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God.

That's why we have been given His righteousness (Rom 5)

There is nothing in our flesh that can please God (Romans 8). And, our flesh was crucified, symbolically, per Gal 2,

What do you mean symbolically?

but we do struggle with it in a practical way (Romans 7).

Where does it say that we have to still struggle with the flesh in Romans 7?

[Rukkus]

Gentle Giant said . . .

We are tri-fold beings... Spirit, Soul (mind,will,emotions) and Body. When we are born-again/saved/converted (i don't care what terminology you use), it is our spirit that becomes a New Creation. The old sin nature of the human spirit no longer exists and in place is our re-generated human spirit that is filled with the Nature of God. That is where the "Old has passed away, all things have become New" would fit into this.

The Soul has NOT been changed, and still has it's sinful 'programming'.

The Body has NOT been changed, and still has it's sinful, lustful desires.

Well first, 2Cor 5:17 doesn't say it was just our spirit that became new. Second, it says "old things have passed away, all things have become new" it's a long jump to go from "all things become new" to just one thing becoming new, our spirit.

We now as new-born babes in Christ, must begin the process of transforming our soul by the renewing of our minds. (Romans 12:1,2 -- 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God

[Joy in the Journey]

All this to say you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection

Be blessed,

Tim

[Rukkus]

All this to say you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection

Be blessed,

Tim

Well . . . I'm not sure what that doctrine all entails. But if it means that in Christ there is no sin, then yes, I do believe that. But that's not why I'm here. I'm here to make sure the article is biblically sound.

[Joy in the Journey]

All this to say you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection 

Be blessed,

Tim

Well . . . I'm not sure what that doctrine all entails. But if it means that in Christ there is no sin, then yes, I do believe that. But that's not why I'm here. I'm here to make sure the article is biblically sound.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So- you repented once and that's it ? You no longer sin so you point it out in others instead huh ? Nice I think Jesus addressed such people...

Luke 18:11-14

11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men

[Rukkus]

Geioke said . . .

So are you saying that if you commit a sin after you've confessed and repented of that same sin, you are no longer a christian?

No, I'm simply saying that alot of Christians think that 1Jn 1:8 is a continual process. But John was just conveying the original Message (1Jn 1:5-10). Nowhere in 1Jn 1 does it say the believer must continually confess (or, acknowledge in Greek) their sins in order to be forgiven. Rom 4:4-8 says that by simply believing on Jesus makes you righteous, and righteousness is defined as your iniquities forgiven (verse 7) and then sin no longer imputed to you (verse 8). So, if God is no longer imputing sins (in Greek that simply means not held against you, or considered, or taken into account) to us, why do we think that we have to confess them in order to be? If you're already forgiven, and sins no longer imputed, how is God going to forgive you if He stopped holding them against you because of your faith in Jesus?

No, see, when we come to Christ we acknowledge our sins, don't we? So, according to 1Jn 1:8, now you're forgiven and cleansed (because you acknowledged your sin). Then you believe in Jesus, and according to Romans 4, from that point foreword, sins are not imputed to you. So if sins are no longer imputed . . . What are we doing going to God, telling Him our sins, in hopes of forgiveness? God can't forgive what He isn't holding against you. Not only that, God doesn't even remember your sin. The Bible says He won't. We may come to Him trying to remind Him, but the Bible says under the New Covenant, He won't remember them (Heb 8:12)

[Fiosh]

Geioke said . . .

So are you saying that if you commit a sin after you've confessed and repented of that same sin, you are no longer a christian?

No, I'm simply saying that alot of Christians think that 1Jn 1:8 is a continual process. But John was just conveying the original Message (1Jn 1:5-10). Nowhere in 1Jn 1 does it say the believer must continually confess (or, acknowledge in Greek) their sins in order to be forgiven. Rom 4:4-8 says that by simply believing on Jesus makes you righteous, and righteousness is defined as your iniquities forgiven (verse 7) and then sin no longer imputed to you (verse 8). So, if God is no longer imputing sins (in Greek that simply means not held against you, or considered, or taken into account) to us, why do we think that we have to confess them in order to be? If you're already forgiven, and sins no longer imputed, how is God going to forgive you if He stopped holding them against you because of your faith in Jesus?

No, see, when we come to Christ we acknowledge our sins, don't we? So, according to 1Jn 1:8, now you're forgiven and cleansed (because you acknowledged your sin). Then you believe in Jesus, and according to Romans 4, from that point foreword, sins are not imputed to you. So if sins are no longer imputed . . . What are we doing going to God, telling Him our sins, in hopes of forgiveness? God can't forgive what He isn't holding against you. Not only that, God doesn't even remember your sin. The Bible says He won't. We may come to Him trying to remind Him, but the Bible says under the New Covenant, He won't remember them (Heb 8:12)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must admit I didn't read the whole article and I only breezed thru all the posts.

Here's my 2 cents based on what I read in the Bible---all the verses have already been posted.

Although the bar is set unbelievably high.....we are called to strive to be perfect, compared to a holy God.....most of us never reach that goal.

If you think you have no sin, you need to get down on your knees and beg the Holy Spirit to reveal your sin to you. He will. Trust me. It's the prayer I dread to pray, because it is ALWAYS answered.

If you hope to grow in your relationship with Jesus Christ you must be prepared to open you eyes to the sin you hide from yourself, and eliminate it from your life.

You will be surprised how those things you never considered "sin", suddenly seem like filth to you.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Rukkus]

Fiosh said . . .

I must admit I didn't read the whole article and I only breezed thru all the posts.

Here's my 2 cents based on what I read in the Bible---all the verses have already been posted.

Although the bar is set unbelievably high.....we are called to strive to be perfect, compared to a holy God.....most of us never reach that goal.

What makes you think it has anything to do with you? The Bible says Christ has perfected us already, and in Him we are complete (Heb 10:14, Col 2:10). Christians tend to have a 'works consciousness' that it's about how hard you work, how hard you try. But the Bible says that once you get in Christ, all things become of God (2Cor 5:17-18). If you work, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But if you believe, and not work, it's counted as Righteousness. (Rom 4)

If you think you have no sin, you need to get down on your knees and beg the Holy Spirit to reveal your sin to you. He will. Trust me. It's the prayer I dread to pray, because it is ALWAYS answered.

I don't doubt that. But this is a different subject.

If you hope to grow in your relationship with Jesus Christ you must be prepared to open you eyes to the sin you hide from yourself, and eliminate it from your life.

do you have any scripture for these remarks?

You will be surprised how those things you never considered "sin", suddenly seem like filth to you.

Peace,

We talk all about this in our book "The End of The Sin Problem" you can find it free on our site.

[Gerioke]

Rukkus...it's a great article, and it's exactly what I've been clammering about for years. The majority of christians just want to pay lip service to their god. They seem to think that if they declare themselves born again, then they are. But that's about as absurd as every ZEN follower claiming they have had a SPIRITUAL AWAKENING, when very few of them ever do, even though they spend their entire lives trying.

The christian bible clearly states that:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" ~I John 3:9

"Whosoever is born of God sinneth not" ~ I John 5:18

Therefore, I sincerely doubt that if I ever meet someone who is either born again or has had a spiritual awakening, I'll know it, and wont have to ask.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So is that your excuse for not believing in God?

[Rukkus]

Joy in the Journey said . ..

So- you repented once and that's it ? You no longer sin so you point it out in others instead huh ? Nice I think Jesus addressed such people...

Luke 18:11-14

11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men