Judgement and Righteous Judgement

[debrakay]

Today I am seeking knowledge and wisdom from the Lord regarding judgement and righteous judgement.  I hope the Lord will use my brothers and sisters to help me in my search for when two or more are gathered together, there he is!

Jesus says in John 7:1  “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Luke repeats Jesus' words in Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

In John 7, Jesus is at the Festival of the Tabernacles and tells the people "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” (John 7:24)

In the last week I was called a judgmental Christian and told I was doing dishonor to the Lord and making all Christianity look bad. I was told that we are not to judge others, period.  These are words from another Christian whom I do not know but claims Christianity as their belief.  I honestly admit I could have used more wisdom in my words.  I should have been much wiser in how I stated my thoughts and my opinion.  Of course the subject was regarding a certain political figure who also claims Christianity and also the medical choices of other Christians.  No hot topics there, right?

I explained the politician does not seem to show any kind of fruit from his walk with Jesus and that in much of the Gospel's Jesus over and over preaches and teaches that his people will be known by their fruit.  The fruit is those whose lives, minds, and hearts have been changed by sharing our love and knowledge of Jesus with others.  By bringing them to the saving grace of Jesus.  By salvation from sins by the power of the cross and the blood shed by Jesus Christ.  We are known by our fruit.

Matthew 7:20 'Therefore by their fruits you will know them.'

There we are back in Matthew 7 the same chapter with judgement and judging.  Righteous judgement of sin is allowed but should be done in grace and carefully in this world today.  The Holy Spirit has told me that I could have and should have chosen better words.

The other topic about medical choices was of course related to abortion and vaccines.  I had stated that by the power of the Holy Spirit we are lead to make Godly choices.  In Ephesians 3 Apostle Paul speaks about the mystery's revealed by the Holy Spirit.  Revelation of many things can come for those who are filled with the Holy Spirit and willing to listen to him.  Abortion is killing and killing is a sin.  There is no wiggle room in this conversation.  

Deuteronomy 32:39 '‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.'

From the very beginning of everything Covid I have felt the Holy Spirit saying this is evil.  This is man doing something evil.  This is a move of Satan.  I can't explain it but everything about it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  As I have watched what men (mankind) have done to the entire population of the world I have had nothing but apprehension and suspicion.  Nothing about any of it sets easy on my spirit.  For 2 1/2 years my spirit has been on edge and causes me daily grief.  I do not fear it as my life has been in the hands of the Lord for decades and I have zero fear of death.  I have no fear for my immediate family as they also understand and listen to the Holy Spirit leading them.  My fear is for others who blindly do as they are told by mankind.  Do I trust mankind?  I do not.  Especially in this day and age of power, greed, lust, evilness and selfishness.  All I see are the days of Noah repeating at a very rapid pace.  Satan has escalated his plans to defeat mankind and take the souls of many.  He is on the final warpath and it is so obvious to me.

This what I voiced about medical choices and got called judgmental for my thoughts and opinions.  Part of who I am is speaking out and not being silent about the world the Lord has placed me in.  I love people and I like conversation.  I love knowledge and wisdom.  I love the Lord with all of my heart and soul.  I love that he loves me. I share him whenever and wherever I can.  I have been like this all of my life and have never heard the Lord tell me to change this part of me.  

I will continue to learn to chose my words with more wisdom before I speak them or type them.  I suspect I will still be called judgmental by others. Praise the Lord because I feel a weight lifted off of me for this one!  

 

 

 

[Alive]

25 minutes ago, debrakay said:

Today I am seeking knowledge and wisdom from the Lord regarding judgement and righteous judgement.  I hope the Lord will use my brothers and sisters to help me in my search for when two or more are gathered together, there he is!

Jesus says in John 7:1  “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Luke repeats Jesus' words in Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

In John 7, Jesus is at the Festival of the Tabernacles and tells the people "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” (John 7:24)

In the last week I was called a judgmental Christian and told I was doing dishonor to the Lord and making all Christianity look bad. I was told that we are not to judge others, period.  These are words from another Christian whom I do not know but claims Christianity as their belief.  I honestly admit I could have used more wisdom in my words.  I should have been much wiser in how I stated my thoughts and my opinion.  Of course the subject was regarding a certain political figure who also claims Christianity and also the medical choices of other Christians.  No hot topics there, right?

I explained the politician does not seem to show any kind of fruit from his walk with Jesus and that in much of the Gospel's Jesus over and over preaches and teaches that his people will be known by their fruit.  The fruit is those whose lives, minds, and hearts have been changed by sharing our love and knowledge of Jesus with others.  By bringing them to the saving grace of Jesus.  By salvation from sins by the power of the cross and the blood shed by Jesus Christ.  We are known by our fruit.

Matthew 7:20 'Therefore by their fruits you will know them.'

There we are back in Matthew 7 the same chapter with judgement and judging.  Righteous judgement of sin is allowed but should be done in grace and carefully in this world today.  The Holy Spirit has told me that I could have and should have chosen better words.

The other topic about medical choices was of course related to abortion and vaccines.  I had stated that by the power of the Holy Spirit we are lead to make Godly choices.  In Ephesians 3 Apostle Paul speaks about the mystery's revealed by the Holy Spirit.  Revelation of many things can come for those who are filled with the Holy Spirit and willing to listen to him.  Abortion is killing and killing is a sin.  There is no wiggle room in this conversation.  

Deuteronomy 32:39 '‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.'

From the very beginning of everything Covid I have felt the Holy Spirit saying this is evil.  This is man doing something evil.  This is a move of Satan.  I can't explain it but everything about it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  As I have watched what men (mankind) have done to the entire population of the world I have had nothing but apprehension and suspicion.  Nothing about any of it sets easy on my spirit.  For 2 1/2 years my spirit has been on edge and causes me daily grief.  I do not fear it as my life has been in the hands of the Lord for decades and I have zero fear of death.  I have no fear for my immediate family as they also understand and listen to the Holy Spirit leading them.  My fear is for others who blindly do as they are told by mankind.  Do I trust mankind?  I do not.  Especially in this day and age of power, greed, lust, evilness and selfishness.  All I see are the days of Noah repeating at a very rapid pace.  Satan has escalated his plans to defeat mankind and take the souls of many.  He is on the final warpath and it is so obvious to me.

This what I voiced about medical choices and got called judgmental for my thoughts and opinions.  Part of who I am is speaking out and not being silent about the world the Lord has placed me in.  I love people and I like conversation.  I love knowledge and wisdom.  I love the Lord with all of my heart and soul.  I love that he loves me. I share him whenever and wherever I can.  I have been like this all of my life and have never heard the Lord tell me to change this part of me.  

I will continue to learn to chose my words with more wisdom before I speak them or type them.  I suspect I will still be called judgmental by others. Praise the Lord because I feel a weight lifted off of me for this one!  

 

 

 

I think besides exercising a measure of wisdom, when speaking of such things--the Lord is looking on the heart in terms of making judgements about others.

[debrakay]

On 7/16/2022 at 9:51 AM, Alive said:

I think besides exercising a measure of wisdom, when speaking of such things--the Lord is looking on the heart in terms of making judgements about others.

Do you believe we not to speak out to fellow believers regarding sin or regarding spirituality?  Is it their heart or my heart the Lord is looking at?  If I am being prompted by the Spirit to speak out shouldn't I be obedient?  Is it really judgement to voice an opinion or a belief?

Sorry for all of the questions.  I'm just trying to figure this out as best I can.  I generally run my comments through my heart first, then my mind and my mouth.  Once in a while it's out my mouth too fast but my heart always feeling the prick of the Holy Spirit to say something otherwise I pass on by.  

[Alive]

30 minutes ago, debrakay said:

Do you believe we not to speak out to fellow believers regarding sin or regarding spirituality?  Is it their heart or my heart the Lord is looking at?  If I am being prompted by the Spirit to speak out shouldn't I be obedient?  Is it really judgement to voice an opinion or a belief?

Sorry for all of the questions.  I'm just trying to figure this out as best I can.  I generally run my comments through my heart first, then my mind and my mouth.  Once in a while it's out my mouth too fast but my heart always feeling the prick of the Holy Spirit to say something otherwise I pass on by.  

To be clear…are you asking about correcting a brother or sister?

[tim_from_pa]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:24 PM, debrakay said:

Today I am seeking knowledge and wisdom from the Lord regarding judgement and righteous judgement.  I hope the Lord will use my brothers and sisters to help me in my search for when two or more are gathered together, there he is!

Jesus says in John 7:1  “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Luke repeats Jesus' words in Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

In John 7, Jesus is at the Festival of the Tabernacles and tells the people "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” (John 7:24)

In the last week I was called a judgmental Christian and told I was doing dishonor to the Lord and making all Christianity look bad. I was told that we are not to judge others, period.  These are words from another Christian whom I do not know but claims Christianity as their belief.  I honestly admit I could have used more wisdom in my words.  I should have been much wiser in how I stated my thoughts and my opinion.  Of course the subject was regarding a certain political figure who also claims Christianity and also the medical choices of other Christians.  No hot topics there, right?

I explained the politician does not seem to show any kind of fruit from his walk with Jesus and that in much of the Gospel's Jesus over and over preaches and teaches that his people will be known by their fruit.  The fruit is those whose lives, minds, and hearts have been changed by sharing our love and knowledge of Jesus with others.  By bringing them to the saving grace of Jesus.  By salvation from sins by the power of the cross and the blood shed by Jesus Christ.  We are known by our fruit.

Matthew 7:20 'Therefore by their fruits you will know them.'

There we are back in Matthew 7 the same chapter with judgement and judging.  Righteous judgement of sin is allowed but should be done in grace and carefully in this world today.  The Holy Spirit has told me that I could have and should have chosen better words.

The other topic about medical choices was of course related to abortion and vaccines.  I had stated that by the power of the Holy Spirit we are lead to make Godly choices.  In Ephesians 3 Apostle Paul speaks about the mystery's revealed by the Holy Spirit.  Revelation of many things can come for those who are filled with the Holy Spirit and willing to listen to him.  Abortion is killing and killing is a sin.  There is no wiggle room in this conversation.  

Deuteronomy 32:39 '‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.'

From the very beginning of everything Covid I have felt the Holy Spirit saying this is evil.  This is man doing something evil.  This is a move of Satan.  I can't explain it but everything about it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  As I have watched what men (mankind) have done to the entire population of the world I have had nothing but apprehension and suspicion.  Nothing about any of it sets easy on my spirit.  For 2 1/2 years my spirit has been on edge and causes me daily grief.  I do not fear it as my life has been in the hands of the Lord for decades and I have zero fear of death.  I have no fear for my immediate family as they also understand and listen to the Holy Spirit leading them.  My fear is for others who blindly do as they are told by mankind.  Do I trust mankind?  I do not.  Especially in this day and age of power, greed, lust, evilness and selfishness.  All I see are the days of Noah repeating at a very rapid pace.  Satan has escalated his plans to defeat mankind and take the souls of many.  He is on the final warpath and it is so obvious to me.

This what I voiced about medical choices and got called judgmental for my thoughts and opinions.  Part of who I am is speaking out and not being silent about the world the Lord has placed me in.  I love people and I like conversation.  I love knowledge and wisdom.  I love the Lord with all of my heart and soul.  I love that he loves me. I share him whenever and wherever I can.  I have been like this all of my life and have never heard the Lord tell me to change this part of me.  

I will continue to learn to chose my words with more wisdom before I speak them or type them.  I suspect I will still be called judgmental by others. Praise the Lord because I feel a weight lifted off of me for this one!  

 

 

 

I find nothing wrong in what you stated except if I missed something.  Could we say it better?  Sure I guess we all could and apologize as "my bad" if the words came out odd.  But when I read between the lines it sounds like with the COVID stuff you were calling the shots and people took offense at that.  You were probably correct, but people don't want to see truth.  Demons feed off of fear and/or anger.  I actually had people mad at me for not being afraid like they are.  Cautious, yes, but fearful no lest the fear becomes your focus of attention and breaks the the first commandment "You shall have no other gods before me."  For you see, if we fear, we are not fearing the Lord only, but something else which we are now calling something that allows to reign in our lives. It's a form of idolatry when you think about it.  I also understand what you are saying about medical.  Like politics, economics even a lot of religion it's a worldly, tyrannical system.  Their dietary and preventative advice stinks. I could go on and on about that in itself, but time now prevents me.

Seems you sensed something wrong long before the COVID.  I did too, for a few decades.  There were odd years that looking back I find potentially prophetic.  1962 was a weird year although I was just a youngster then.  That blew up to the social unrest of the late 60's and early 70's (in which today is the same on steroids).  1979 was a very weird year for me.  There were demonic forces building up to set the stage politically for what we are witnessing now.  Of course 2001, 2011, and lately 2020 (and there are other years that stick out in my mind.  I noticed things happen every "duo decade", so that's around 1960, 1980, 2000, 2020.  2011 was between them.  Notice lately how there governments of this world want certain things done by 2030??  I think you get the idea.  I have a forum friend for almost 20 years now and I asked her, "Are you getting one of those ominous feelings again?" to which she often replied in the positive.  These sensations you are getting no doubt is your sensitivity to the spirit world, "for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but..."  You get the idea.

[Alive]

18 hours ago, debrakay said:

Do you believe we not to speak out to fellow believers regarding sin or regarding spirituality?  Is it their heart or my heart the Lord is looking at?  If I am being prompted by the Spirit to speak out shouldn't I be obedient?  Is it really judgement to voice an opinion or a belief?

Sorry for all of the questions.  I'm just trying to figure this out as best I can.  I generally run my comments through my heart first, then my mind and my mouth.  Once in a while it's out my mouth too fast but my heart always feeling the prick of the Holy Spirit to say something otherwise I pass on by.  

Regarding the sentence in bold text above.

Yes and no. This depends on much and these sorts of things are better dealt with within the context of a local assembly of believers, but not always. Regarding sin--yes--we have scripture to guide us and I will post a few below. Regarding the spirituality of another brother? This is problematic and fraught with danger for the one who would speak out so.

Much depends on the 'spirituality' and maturity of the individual speaking out. We all need to take care in 'touching the ark'. Years ago, we used this analogy to learn the importance in taking care when 'touching' the work of God in another brother. Not to reach out to steady that ark, when God is capable of keeping His own. Much of this also can be affected by our own hearts on a given matter or situation.

In short: be sure it is the Spirit doing the prompting. Sometimes all it takes is to pause--take a breath and pray quietly with open ears. And remember, we all make mistakes. We are all a WORK in progress.

Love.

Some scriptures to look at as principles to guide our behavior......

1Cor. 16:14 (NAS20S) All that you do must be done in love.

Matt. 18:15 (NAS20S)   “Now if your brother sins , go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶ “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that ON THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY MATTER MAY BE CONFIRMED. ¹⁷ “And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. ¹⁸ “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Matt. 7:3 (NAS20S) “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 “ Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and look, the log is in your own eye? 5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye!

Gal. 6:1 (NAS20S)    Brothers and sisters, even if a person is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual are to restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you are not tempted as well.

 ^{Rom. 14:4 (NAS20S) Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.}

Edited July 18, 2022 by Alive

[missmuffet]

What does the Bible mean when it says, “Do not judge”?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

Jesus’ command not to judge others could be the most widely quoted of His sayings, even though it is almost invariably quoted in complete disregard of its context. Here is Jesus’ statement: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). Many people use this verse in an attempt to silence their critics, interpreting Jesus’ meaning as “You don’t have the right to tell me I’m wrong.” Taken in isolation, Jesus’ command “Do not judge” does indeed seem to preclude all negative assessments. However, there is much more to the passage than those three words.
 

The Bible’s command that we not judge others does not mean we cannot show discernment. Immediately after Jesus says, “Do not judge,” He says, “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs” (Matthew 7:6). A little later in the same sermon, He says, “Watch out for false prophets. . . . By their fruit you will recognize them” (verses 15–16). How are we to discern who are the “dogs” and “pigs” and “false prophets” unless we have the ability to make a judgment call on doctrines and deeds? Jesus is giving us permission to tell right from wrong.

 

Also, the Bible’s command that we not judge others does not mean all actions are equally moral or that truth is relative. The Bible clearly teaches that truth is objective, eternal, and inseparable from God’s character. Anything that contradicts the truth is a lie—but, of course, to call something a “lie” is to pass judgment. To call adultery or murder a sin is likewise to pass judgment—but it’s also to agree with God. When Jesus said not to judge others, He did not mean that no one can identify sin for what it is, based on God’s definition of sin.

 

And the Bible’s command that we not judge others does not mean there should be no mechanism for dealing with sin. The Bible has a whole book entitled Judges. The judges in the Old Testament were raised up by God Himself (Judges 2:18). The modern judicial system, including its judges, is a necessary part of society. In saying, “Do not judge,” Jesus was not saying, “Anything goes.”

 

Elsewhere, Jesus gives a direct command to judge: “Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly” (John 7:24). Here we have a clue as to the right type of judgment versus the wrong type. Taking this verse and some others, we can put together a description of the sinful type of judgment:

 

Superficial judgment is wrong. Passing judgment on someone based solely on appearances is sinful (John 7:24). It is foolish to jump to conclusions before investigating the facts (Proverbs 18:13). Simon the Pharisee passed judgment on a woman based on her appearance and reputation, but he could not see that the woman had been forgiven; Simon thus drew Jesus’ rebuke for his unrighteous judgment (Luke 7:36–50).

 

Hypocritical judgment is wrong. Jesus’ command not to judge others in Matthew 7:1 is preceded by comparisons to hypocrites (Matthew 6:2, 5, 16) and followed by a warning against hypocrisy (Matthew 7:3–5). When we point out the sin of others while we ourselves commit the same sin, we condemn ourselves (Romans 2:1).

 

Harsh, unforgiving judgment is wrong. We are “always to be gentle toward everyone” (Titus 3:2). It is the merciful who will be shown mercy (Matthew 5:7), and, as Jesus warned, “In the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you” (Matthew 7:2).

 

Self-righteous judgment is wrong. We are called to humility, and “God opposes the proud” (James 4:6). The Pharisee in Jesus’ parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector was confident in his own righteousness and from that proud position judged the publican; however, God sees the heart and refused to forgive the Pharisee’s sin (Luke 18:9–14).

 

Untrue judgment is wrong. The Bible clearly forbids bearing false witness (Proverbs 19:5). “Slander no one” (Titus 3:2).

Christians are often accused of “judging” or intolerance when they speak out against sin. But opposing sin is not wrong. Holding aloft the standard of righteousness naturally defines unrighteousness and draws the slings and arrows of those who choose sin over godliness. John the Baptist incurred the ire of Herodias when he spoke out against her adultery with Herod (Mark 6:18–19). She eventually silenced John, but she could not silence the truth (Isaiah 40:8).

 

Believers are warned against judging others unfairly or unrighteously, but Jesus commends “right judgment” (John 7:24, ESV). We are to be discerning (Colossians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to preach the whole counsel of God, including the Bible’s teaching on sin (Acts 20:27; 2 Timothy 4:2). We are to gently confront erring brothers or sisters in Christ (Galatians 6:1). We are to practice church discipline (Matthew 18:15–17). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).

Edited July 18, 2022 by missmuffet

[Alive]

This is where Paul places some focus on spiritual maturity in matters related to making judgements.

Again, we have scriptures that can guide us for all things related to daily life and doctrine.

1Cor. 5:11 (NAS20S) But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what business of mine is it to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE EVIL PERSON FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

1Cor. 6:1 (NAS20S)   Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to form the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you anyone wise who will be able to decide between his brothers and sisters, 6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?

[debrakay]

23 hours ago, Alive said:

To be clear…are you asking about correcting a brother or sister?

Yes. Those professing Jesus Christ as savior.

[debrakay]

19 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

Seems you sensed something wrong long before the COVID. 

These sensations you are getting no doubt is your sensitivity to the spirit world, "for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but..."  You get the idea.

Thanks for responding Tim.  Yes, my family has laughed at me a lot in the past 40 years for my off the wall "spirit" sense.  They know me and know my heart is in the right place and they do listen and the laughter is "Hey, that's mom!" in love.  I'm in Oregon so that wrestle between good and evil has honestly been a battle.  I have had people say that I should move but my heart and mind (Holy Spirit) keeps telling me to stay and wage the good fight.  I am not a quiet little wall flower when it comes to spiritual warfare and work harder and harder on strengthening my armor.

Even when I get called out for passing "judgement" calls on fearful Christian brothers and sisters I am reminded that we are all at different levels of a spiritual walk with our Lord God.  He has to remind me repeatedly to take a breath, think for a few seconds or more, and respond in love not emotions.  You men have an advantage that your emotions do not normally run rampant. Us girls are built differently.