Starise Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,079 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,554 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2022 I am writing this to get thoughts on the criteria you might use to either accept or reject person who claims a word from God, a special dream or vision. One place in the bible says this: Joel 2:28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. And almost word for word here: Acts 2:17 “’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. This is I believe, a reminder of the original comment in Joel. We also have this: 2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. 21 For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.… There are many who are coming out with "visions and prophecies". I put this in quotes because this is their claim and not necessarily proven. One such prophetic dream I recently read claims there will be a terrible tsunami very soon and bad things coming for the US and Japan all very soon. Others made claims of even more extreme government upheaval than we have seen to date. In most of these good news is nowhere to be found. Instead a dire and dark future is predicted. Many of these self described prophets are claiming to be Christians. How do we know for sure when a prophet is false or when one is legit? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2022 30 minutes ago, Starise said: How do we know for sure when a prophet is false or when one is legit? I once met someone who claimed to be a prophet, yet when he talked about his "gift" he talked about it almost as a circus sideshow trick. At no time did he give the Lord glory or credit for it, instead he said "I did this". For that one, I thought he was likely a false one. There was another I met who was known to be a prophet, gave God the glory, and came up to me to give me a message. That one I thought was likely to be for real. The current thinking among many is that its ok for a prophet to be less than 100% accurate, but scripturally, one had to be completely accurate. Deuteronomy 18 21 And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not follow nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,264 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 2,301 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Starise said: How do we know for sure when a prophet is false or when one is legit? If what they say comes to pass, they are legit. Quote Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ESV But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. For most of our modern prophets, they seem greatly rooted into eschatology. So many continue to fail or make such vague "prophecies" that even a hamster with Alzheimer's would get it right. So many of these people have no idea what they have got themselves into. This is more likely what "taking the Lord's name in vein" really means - presuming to speak on behalf of God. What I believe some may not realize is that the prophetic books were only retained and preserved because what was spoken had come to pass. We know from scripture that there were many false prophets but there is no record of their prophetic words. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,079 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,554 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, ayin jade said: The current thinking among many is that its ok for a prophet to be less than 100% accurate, but scripturally, one had to be completely accurate. I agree. Fortune tellers are some of the devil's prophets and they often are hit or miss, or very vague in what they say. Answers that could lean in several directions. Back in OT times, the same kinds of prophets were out and about many of them claiming to be the prophets of God and telling the Jewish people lies, which they were sometimes prone to believe. While I didn't state this very clearly in my opening post, I am mainly questioning those who claim to be Christians since those who are not are not even on my radar. You DID address this group in the Deuteronomy reference. There seem to be two types of these prophets- Those who are solidly in the Christian community, those selling books to Christians, making the church speaking circuit, Christian broadcasting etc. and those who are basically witches or close, who are not in the Christian community, but will claim some form of Christianity or association to it. Many in the first group have in fact, been incorrect in their prophecies. This should be a red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,079 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,554 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, teddyv said: If what they say comes to pass, they are legit. For most of our modern prophets, they seem greatly rooted into eschatology. So many continue to fail or make such vague "prophecies" that even a hamster with Alzheimer's would get it right. So many of these people have no idea what they have got themselves into. This is more likely what "taking the Lord's name in vein" really means - presuming to speak on behalf of God. What I believe some may not realize is that the prophetic books were only retained and preserved because what was spoken had come to pass. We know from scripture that there were many false prophets but there is no record of their prophetic words. Great comments on this Teddy. What I find unfortunate about the 'wait-and-see' approach is that we have to wait to see. Many have trusted a person, given up their livelihoods and belongings only to be fooled. We seem to have a bunch of pastors spewing bad eschatology. While they may not be claiming to be prophets, the results are the same. They are putting incorrect, inaccurate ideas about the future out there. On the dreaming dreams and seeing visions end of things, if you go to YouTube you will see dozens of people who post videos claiming to have had dreams and visions from the Lord. Many of them repeatedly and others only one or two times. One young man who claims these sorts of things has over 300,000 viewers. This is not uncommon. I will admit there are few on the Charismatic fringe I didn't bother with for more than a minute after I heard what they were saying. One is a woman who is making a Hollywood production of her prophetic views. On the other hand I would ask, If God gave me a vision and He expected me to get it out to the masses, how would I do that? I would probably use YouTube....and the rub for me is, I do believe some of them are legit. They really had dreams and visions just as the bible said. These visions really came from God Himself. These are often just ordinary individuals without production budgets who aren't interested in high play counts. The Lord layed something on their heart and they had the boldness to put it out there. I will be putting a few of them to the test. We are supposed to get a horrible water event the last part of this month. Something like a tsunami on the California coast. We are also supposed to get some terrible volcanic events out in the western US. I should know all of this by the end of August. If it happens I will look them up again. If it doesn't i'll throw them on the pile with the rest of the charlatans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,125 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,072 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Starise said: I am writing this to get thoughts on the criteria you might use to either accept or reject person who claims a word from God, a special dream or vision. One place in the bible says this: Joel 2:28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. And almost word for word here: Acts 2:17 “’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. This is I believe, a reminder of the original comment in Joel. We also have this: 2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. 21 For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.… There are many who are coming out with "visions and prophecies". I put this in quotes because this is their claim and not necessarily proven. One such prophetic dream I recently read claims there will be a terrible tsunami very soon and bad things coming for the US and Japan all very soon. Others made claims of even more extreme government upheaval than we have seen to date. In most of these good news is nowhere to be found. Instead a dire and dark future is predicted. Many of these self described prophets are claiming to be Christians. How do we know for sure when a prophet is false or when one is legit? When the Lord sent the Holy Spirit of God into the world after He ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne, the prophet of old passed. As you correctly observe this is the fulfillment of Joel 2:28: For the lost, the Spirit of the Lord convicts every one of their rebelliousness and trespasses. For those in Jesus Christ, God Himself dwells both with us and among us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Why did the prophet of old pass? Prior to the coming of Jesus Christ in this flesh, the Almighty poured His Spirit upon His servants the prophets and so the people either received the prophet of the Lord, or they did not. But everything changed when God poured His Spirit upon all flesh, so we understand that words of prophecy are a gift from our Father in heaven (who is the giver of all good gifts). The office of the prophet is a thing of the past for now that God is with us (Emmanuel), and He no longer hides His face from man, the word of the Lord may come upon anyone. Beware of anyone who comes declaring their status as a "prophet." The same can be said of all whose lives are hidden in the Son of the living God. We are all prophets of the Lord God Almighty. As for the word of the Lord? God does whatever He pleases, so His word may or may not declare what will come to pass. I do know this: when the Lord declares what shall come to pass, it unfolds precisely according to His words. I have witnessed this many times over the years. The "eschatological prophet" is a product of end times mania. Some are so obsessed by eschatology that their ears burn to hear words which are pleasing to them. Pay them no mind for what they have declared has been proven false. They presumed to speak for the Lord deceitfully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,079 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,554 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Marathoner said: When the Lord sent the Holy Spirit of God into the world after He ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne, the prophet of old passed. As you correctly observe this is the fulfillment of Joel 2:28: For the lost, the Spirit of the Lord convicts every one of their rebelliousness and trespasses. For those in Jesus Christ, God Himself dwells both with us and among us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Why did the prophet of old pass? Prior to the coming of Jesus Christ in this flesh, the Almighty poured His Spirit upon His servants the prophets and so the people either received the prophet of the Lord, or they did not. But everything changed when God poured His Spirit upon all flesh, so we understand that words of prophecy are a gift from our Father in heaven (who is the giver of all good gifts). The office of the prophet is a thing of the past for now that God is with us (Emmanuel), and He no longer hides His face from man, the word of the Lord may come upon anyone. Beware of anyone who comes declaring their status as a "prophet." The same can be said of all whose lives are hidden in the Son of the living God. We are all prophets of the Lord God Almighty. As for the word of the Lord? God does whatever He pleases, so His word may or may not declare what will come to pass. I do know this: when the Lord declares what shall come to pass, it unfolds precisely according to His words. I have witnessed this many times over the years. The "eschatological prophet" is a product of end times mania. Some are so obsessed by eschatology that their ears burn to hear words which are pleasing to them. Pay them no mind for what they have declared has been proven false. They presumed to speak for the Lord deceitfully. I'll admit when I first started reading this, I thought you were going to say all prophecy has been done away with. I was pleased to read that you see this differently. It is the PROPHETS who were done away with, yet ( I'm sorry I have to be objective here) yet............don't we read of OT prophets who return in the book or Revelation? So it appears some of that old guard will return for a time to do the work of the Lord. Would like to hear your thoughts on this. I agree though, God can allow anyone to see His plans and lead these people to tell others what they have seen. Not dedicated prophets, but people who God reveals things to at His good pleasure. Housewives, factory workers, dentists...anyone. As a side note I hope doesn't derail the thread, word has it Muslims have seen visions that are leading them to the Lord. I had a dream last night but it was something weird about my neighbor offering me a free smoker. I don't think I am supposed to share that one. It could be the Lord leading me to purchase some meat to smoke though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,125 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,072 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Starise said: What I find unfortunate about the 'wait-and-see' approach is that we have to wait to see. Many have trusted a person, given up their livelihoods and belongings only to be fooled. We seem to have a bunch of pastors spewing bad eschatology. While they may not be claiming to be prophets, the results are the same. They are putting incorrect, inaccurate ideas about the future out there. On the dreaming dreams and seeing visions end of things, if you go to YouTube you will see dozens of people who post videos claiming to have had dreams and visions from the Lord. Many of them repeatedly and others only one or two times. One young man who claims these sorts of things has over 300,000 viewers. This is not uncommon. I will admit there are few on the Charismatic fringe I didn't bother with for more than a minute after I heard what they were saying. One is a woman who is making a Hollywood production of her prophetic views. On the other hand I would ask, If God gave me a vision and He expected me to get it out to the masses, how would I do that? I would probably use YouTube....and the rub for me is, I do believe some of them are legit. They really had dreams and visions just as the bible said. These visions really came from God Himself. These are often just ordinary individuals without production budgets who aren't interested in high play counts. The Lord layed something on their heart and they had the boldness to put it out there. I will be putting a few of them to the test. We are supposed to get a horrible water event the last part of this month. Something like a tsunami on the California coast. We are also supposed to get some terrible volcanic events out in the western US. I should know all of this by the end of August. If it happens I will look them up again. If it doesn't i'll throw them on the pile with the rest of the charlatans. I ignore those YouTube videos, brother. Why? If the Lord commands one to deliver His word to others, then His word shall be delivered directly from the lips of the speaker to the ears of the intended recipient(s) without the aid of something paltry like broadcasting. We remember Balaam's donkey, yes? We do indeed! Nothing is impossible to Jesus Christ who speaks for Himself (God is not an idol who is blind and mute), so why would the Lord need to rely upon a slew of "prophetic" YouTube videos to deliver His word? I've viewed some of them. The end of the world and all that over, and over again. Silly end-times mania. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,125 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,072 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Starise said: I'll admit when I first started reading this, I thought you were going to say all prophecy has been done away with. I was pleased to read that you see this differently. It is the PROPHETS who were done away with, yet ( I'm sorry I have to be objective here) yet............don't we read of OT prophets who return in the book or Revelation? So it appears some of that old guard will return for a time to do the work of the Lord. Would like to hear your thoughts on this. I agree though, God can allow anyone to see His plans and lead these people to tell others what they have seen. Not dedicated prophets, but people who God reveals things to at His good pleasure. Housewives, factory workers, dentists...anyone. As a side note I hope doesn't derail the thread, word has it Muslims have seen visions that are leading them to the Lord. I had a dream last night but it was something weird about my neighbor offering me a free smoker. I don't think I am supposed to share that one. It could be the Lord leading me to purchase some meat to smoke though. The office of the prophet was done away with, not prophecy; I'm glad you get where I was coming from with that. Here's something to consider. Remember John the Baptist, Elijah crying out in the wilderness? He wasn't Elijah himself, of course, but the mantle of Elijah was indeed upon him. That might be difficult for some to wrap their minds around. Again, God does as He pleases. If our Father in heaven is pleased to give gifts of prophecy to someone --- this is a mantle which He alone places upon their shoulders --- then it is what it is. Such a one has no need to announce themselves. I've been approached by brothers and sisters who delivered the word of the Lord to me, and they didn't have to say, "I'm here to speak the words of the Lord to you." I knew what I was hearing right away when they spoke the words. I'm referring to us, my friend. The unbeliever is a different matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.55 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 22, 2022 It occurs to me that perhaps, Lord willing, I will one day write about this subject--but I am not feeling it just now. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts