Why don't Jews believe in Jesus?

[Trust & Obey]

Fiosh, my understanding is that they rejected Yeshua as the Messiah because they were expecting a conquering Messiah, not a lowly one. They weren't expecting the Messiah to come and call into question their entire faith... their overly-legalistic observance of the law. Christ denounced all that they were and stood for. Therefore, they despised and rejected Him.

As a result, they have been smitten with blindness and God has turned His attention to the gentiles.

John 12:

37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:



[Fiosh]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I heard this cute little joke:

Two Jewish mothers were commiserating with one another.

The first says, "Oi vey!!! my son yod ( ) has turned Christian; I'm sick I tell you, sick! Can you believe it??

The other replies, "Oh no! My son, Shiloh, has also turned Christian!! What shall we do??

To which the first responds, "Let's call upon the Lord, and ask His advice".

"Lord, our sons have turned Christian, help us! "

Suddenly, they hear a booming voice from the heavens..........

"Be not dismayed. Mine too".

[Guest shiloh357]

It's hard for me to understand why Messianic Jews are in the minority.

[Guest yod]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I heard this cute little joke:

Two Jewish mothers were commiserating with one another.

The first says, "Oi vey!!! my son yod ( ) has turned Christian; I'm sick I tell you, sick! Can you believe it??

The other replies, "Oh no! My son, Shiloh, has also turned Christian!!  What shall we do??

To which the first responds, "Let's call upon the Lord, and ask His advice".

"Lord, our sons have turned Christian, help us! "

Suddenly, they hear a booming voice from the heavens..........

"Be not dismayed.  Mine too".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's cute!

[Fiosh]

yod,

Thank you for your extensive post and all the info. I am reading it now, and will need time to go thru it carefully and also look at some of the quotes in context.

One brief comment though.

Look at all the ugly things that are said about the RCC. Not only that we are hated by God; but even that we are the tools of Satan.

Yet, I still love Jesus, and accept Him as Lord, God and Saviour. And so does my Church.

Love,

Fiosh

PS. Glad my little joke didn't offend you.

[Fiosh]

Hi yod,

As you have so often reminded me....context, context, context.

I just spent some time reading thru the portion of Augustine's Epistle 82 from which you quoted.

Although, when read by itself, the statement does indeed sound hateful.

When taken in context it makes perfect sense. If you want to see for yourself, check out paragraphs 15-19. You can easily find it by doing a search.

Or is this link is not deleted, you can read it at http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102082.htm

Augustine was addressing those Jews who continued to think they could find salvation by the law, without the blood of Jesus. He was stating the simple fact that they were on the road to hell because they had rejected Christ.

I've heard much the same said on these boards to Mormons, JW's, Atheists, and RCs.

Interesting stuff. And just the incentive I need to delve into the 3 volume set of writings of the Church Fathers I just rec'd as a gift from my brother.

Thanks!

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

Your (mis-)quote:

Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.)

[Fiosh]

Your quote:

"Epistle of Barnabas" Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.)

Take heed to yourselves and be not like some piling up you sins and saying that the covenant is theirs as well as ours. It is ours, but they lost it completely just after Moses received it.

***************************************************

From Epistle of Barnabas:

from Chap. 4

And this also I further beg of you, as being one of you, and loving you both individually and collectively more than my own soul, to take heed now to yourselves, and not to be like some, adding largely to your sins, and saying, "The covenant is both theirs and ours."

But they thus finally lost it, after Moses had already received it. For the Scripture saith, "And Moses was fasting in the mount forty days and forty nights, and received the covenant from the Lord, tables of stone written with the finger of the hand of the Lord;" but turning away to idols, they lost it. For the Lord speaks thus to Moses: "Moses go down quickly; for the people whom thou hast brought out of the land of Egypt have transgressed." And Moses understood [the meaning of God], and cast the two tables out of his hands; and their covenant was broken, in order that the covenant of the beloved Jesus might be sealed upon our heart, in the hope which flows from believing in Him.

CHAPTER XIII.--CHRISTIANS, AND NOT JEWS, THE HEIRS OF THE COVENANT.

But let us see if this people is the heir, or the former, and if the covenant belongs to us or to them. Hear ye now what the Scripture saith concerning the people. Isaac prayed for Rebecca his wife, because she was barren; and she conceived. Furthermore also, Rebecca went forth to inquire of the Lord; and the Lord said to her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples in thy belly; and the one people shall surpass the other, and the eider shall serve the younger." You ought to understand who was Isaac, who Rebecca, and concerning what persons He declared that this people should be greater than that. And in another prophecy Jacob speaks more clearly to his son Joseph, saying, "Behold, the Lord hath not deprived me of thy presence; bring thy sons to me, that I may bless them." And he brought Manasseh and Ephraim, desiring that Manasseh should be blessed, because he was the eider. With this view Joseph led him to the right hand of his father Jacob. But Jacob saw in spirit the type of the people to arise afterwards. And what says [the Scripture]? And Jacob changed the direction of his bands, and laid his fight hand upon the head of Ephraim, the second and younger, and blessed him. And Joseph said to Jacob, "Transfer thy right hand to the head of Manasseh, for he is my first-born son." And Jacob said, "I know it, my son, I know it; but the elder shall serve the younger: yet he also shall be blessed." Ye see on whom he laid [his hands], that this people should be first, and heir of the covenant. If then, still further, the same thing was intimated through Abraham, we reach the perfection of our knowledge. What, then, says He to Abraham? "Because thou hast believed, it is imputed to thee for righteousness: behold, I have made thee the father of those nations who believe in the Lord while in [a state of] uncircumcision."

CHAPTER XIV.--THE LORD HATH GIVEN US THE TESTAMENT WHICH MOSES RECEIVED AND BROKE.

Yes [it is even so]; but let us inquire if the Lord has really given that testament which He swore to the fathers that He would give to the people. He did give it; but they were not worthy to receive it, on account of their sins. For the prophet declares, "And Moses was fasting forty days and forty nights on Mount Sinai, that he might receive the testament of the Lord for the people." And he received from the Lord two tables, written in the spirit by the finger of the hand of the Lord. And Moses having received them, carried them down to give to the people. And the Lord said to Moses, "Moses, Moses, go down quickly; for thy people hath sinned, whom thou didst bring out of the land of Egypt." And Moses understood that they had again made molten images; and he threw the tables out of his hands, and the tables of the testament of the Lord were broken. Moses then received it, but they proved themselves unworthy. Learn now how we have received it. Moses, as a servant, received it; but the Lord himself, having suffered in our behalf, hath given it to us, that we should be the people of inheritance. But He was manifested, in order that they might be perfected in their iniquities, and that we, being constituted heirs through Him, might receive the testament of the Lord Jesus, who was prepared for this end, that by His personal manifestation, redeeming our hearts (which were already wasted by death, and given over to the iniquity of error) from darkness, He might by His word enter into a covenant with us. For it is written how the Father, about to redeem us from darkness, commanded Him to prepare a holy people for Himself. The prophet therefore declares, "I, the Lord Thy God, have called Thee in righteousness, and will hold Thy hand, and will strengthen Thee; and I have given Thee for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open the eyes of the blind, and to bring forth from fetters them that are bound, and those that sit in darkness out of the prison-house." Ye perceive, then, whence we have been redeemed.