Jesus' Sacrificial Death

[Ovedya]

OK, Ovedya, here is that passage in Romans 5:

    5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

    6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

So here is the problem: Jesus' death lasted only three days.  I have to keep pointing out this problem, and I don't know why.  Are Christians so wound up in their doctrine that they are blind to this problem, as if it makes complete sense?  I'll put myself in Jesus' place.  There I am, getting the everloving snot kicked out of me, getting ripped to shreds, humiliated, and finally dying, like the way Mel Gibson showed it.  Three days later, I get up, stretch, visit my chums, and then elevate myself to heaven, where I enjoy an angelic massage, an orchestral symphony, and a fine bottle of Pinot Noir, for eternity.  I "died" for my sworn enemies.  With a condition.  Their lives are saved from everlasting punishment only if they become my willing followers, devoted completely to my will.  Shoot, I wish I could be in Jesus' position.  If I could give my enemies that sort of choice--I don't know about you--I would temporarily kill myself in a heartbeat.

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Know what, Tempest, trivializing Jesus' sacrifice in such a manner isn't going to win any points with anybody - especially to those of us that love the Lord Jesus. Your comments here are absolutely offensive.

It is obvious to me that you are not in any way serious about seeking answers here.

[TempestTossed]

Here are some additional facts regardgin Jesus' death to ponder:

1. Jesus was God. It was not that He was a lesser deity, He was God in the flesh.

2. Jesus suffering was not necessarily related to the amount of time He spent in the tomb. His suffering was related to the fact that He (Jesus) who knew no sin, became sin. In other words, even though Jesus never sinned and was perfect, God the Father placed all the punishment for all of the sins ever commited on His shoulders. For that moment the perfect fellowship God the Father and God the Son knew from all eternity was broken. God the Father literally turned His back on God the Son.

3. Jesus action was necessary because God is a Holy God. His sence of justice demands that sinful actions be dealt with in a just manner. Since all humans are sinful, there is no way that they can do anything tro satisfy God's justice. That is because everthing they would try, would fall short. Jesus was Holy (because He was God). His death satisfied God's holiness and justice (which none of us could do)

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Do any of those facts address the problem? I just can't see it. God turned his back on Jesus for three to four days. Then God welcomed Jesus back into Heaven. That sounds kinda like the "three days seems like an eternity to God" answer to the problem. Maybe this solves the problem in some bizarre theological sense, you know, just like any theological problem can be solved through God's mysterious ways. But it seems kinda hoaky to me. It just leaves a big question mark above my head.

[Gerioke]

Here are some additional facts regardgin Jesus' death to ponder:

1. Jesus was God. It was not that He was a lesser deity, He was God in the flesh.

2. Jesus suffering was not necessarily related to the amount of time He spent in the tomb. His suffering was related to the fact that He (Jesus) who knew no sin, became sin. In other words, even though Jesus never sinned and was perfect, God the Father placed all the punishment for all of the sins ever commited on His shoulders. For that moment the perfect fellowship God the Father and God the Son knew from all eternity was broken. God the Father literally turned His back on God the Son.

3. Jesus action was necessary because God is a Holy God. His sence of justice demands that sinful actions be dealt with in a just manner. Since all humans are sinful, there is no way that they can do anything tro satisfy God's justice. That is because everthing they would try, would fall short. Jesus was Holy (because He was God). His death satisfied God's holiness and justice (which none of us could do)

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Do any of those facts address the problem? I just can't see it. God turned his back on Jesus for three to four days. Then God welcomed Jesus back into Heaven. That sounds kinda like the "three days seems like an eternity to God" answer to the problem. Maybe this solves the problem in some bizarre theological sense, you know, just like any theological problem can be solved through God's mysterious ways. But it seems kinda hoaky to me. It just leaves a big question mark above my head.

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I would think you should be glad that God would welcome you into the kingdom even though you had turned your back on Him. God's grace is amazing, isn't it?

[EricH]

Would you offer your son as a sacrifice to save the life of a murderer?

The great sacrice doesn't lie within the torture but that it was GOD'S only SON.

[TempestTossed]

I would think you should be glad that God would welcome you into the kingdom even though you had turned your back on Him. God's grace is amazing, isn't it?

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God welcomes me back into his kingdom on the condition that I change my ways in his favor. No, that's not so amazing. But this is changing the subject.

[Gerioke]

I would think you should be glad that God would welcome you into the kingdom even though you had turned your back on Him. God's grace is amazing, isn't it?

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God welcomes me back into his kingdom on the condition that I change my ways in his favor. No, that's not so amazing. But this is changing the subject.

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How is it changing the subject? All God wants you to do is believe.

[TempestTossed]

EricH, I'll need time to make sense of what you said.

[Guest Zayit]

From the beginning of time, the only way to cleanse sin is with blood.  Only a sacrifice can rid you of your sins.  In the old tetament, animal sacrifices were used to cleanse but over time, man's sins were just too great to be appeased by the blood of animals.  So God needed a perfect sacrifice, something whose blood was perfect and pure.  The only answer possible was Jesus.  A sinless, lamb without blemish could cleanse the world of their sins.  So God sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins on the cross.  Blood HAD to be spilled for cleansing and Jesus gave up His life for this sacrifice.

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I'm sorry but this is very unreasonable understanding of the word. In the garden the L-rD told Adam that he could have everything around him except one thing, and that one thing would bring death upon him. His woman was fooled into partaking of it and then convinced him to do the same. He should have rechecked with G-d first for clarification but he didn't, that was his downfall, not eating of the fruit. But in eating of the fruit it brought death. He did not choose from the tree of Life which was also in the garden. Thus the first covering for sin was made by the L-rD when he killed two animals (most likely sheep) and used the skins to cover their shame. All the sacrifices for sin afterwards were for the same thing, atonement, but an animal can not fully atone for a human thus a perfect human blood would be needed for atonement.

Time had nothing to do with the change in the sacrifice, sin is sin, and it was the worst from the beginning. It did not accumulate and need a "stronger cleanser'. The L-rd proclaimed the atonement that would be made from that beginning when he spoke Genesis 3:15.

[Ovedya]

Zayit, I believe that you and Giaour are saying basically the same thing. The Lord established the pattern by which sin was to be dealt with in the garden (He slew only one animal, by the way), and the principal of that pattern was completed in Christ. In other words, an animal sacrifice was sufficient, but only as a caretaker, as a pattern of the reality confirmed in Christ. An animal sacrifice could only cover sins temporarilly. For the complete cleansing of sin a pure and perfect human had to willingly die.

[EricH]

EricH, I'll need time to make sense of what you said.

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Thats OK, it took me a while to come to terms with it