Jesus' Sacrificial Death

[HisWordIsSufficient]

That is why Jesus' sacrifice, although he did not 'suffer' as much I guess as you would have like him to, was so important. He did it for us.

Joanie

I certainly would not have "liked him to" suffer more than he did...!!! Not even at all if it were possible! im sure u didnt mean it that way but i just had to add that.

As far as i see it, it doesnt matter what we think He did or didnt go through, it was bad enough and Jesus didnt HAVE to do it, He chose to, for us. For me. For you. He didnt ask for sympathy or a medal. He asked that we live a perfect eternal life in heaven by believing and knowing Him...What a wonderful God! The sacrafice was huge, and it was all for us. I think thats wonderful!

Yea, that wasn't really how I meant to put it, I was kind of referring to the 1st post of this topic when I said that.

I agree with you and how you said it. I'm not really gifted with putting my thoughts out there in just a few words and getting out all of what I want to say to. But what you said is pretty much what I meant. He gave his life for us because He wanted us to be able to be in Heaven with Him forever, and for that I praise Him every chance I get.

its all good dear

Jesus is the best!!

[tdrehfal]

I have a bone to pick with this central Christian doctrine that Jesus paid the debt for the sins of everyone when he was crucified by the Romans. Maybe it is really just symbolic, or maybe God is powerful enough that He made it all make sense somehow. But, to me, it is sign that the whole religion is just a religion, nothing more. Please let me explain.

According to the Gospels, Jesus died a horrible death. I went to a Christian school where I was given a doctor's study about how torturous this sort of death was. So Jesus went through that, he died, and then his soul went to either heaven or hell, or he just hung out in the grave for three days. Then he came back to life, just as he was before, only with wounds in his hands and side.

Now I can't really see the difference between this and your normal Roman crucifixion followed by a three day sleep. However, this is supposed to be God's ultimate sacrifice. Sure, it may be a great sacrifice. I would feel bad too if I sent my kid to a hyper-abusive daycare center for a day followed by a three-day stint in a hospital bed. But it seems to me that there are greater sacrificies being made by human beings all over the planet. I don't know if you have seen that photo of the bony little African girl scrounging for food in the groung while a vulture waits for her to collapse in a bundle, but that is the sort of life that would count as a much bigger sacrifice in my opinion.

Here is another angle to it: for every human being who doesn't accept this method of payment for their life of sin, they are sent to Hell. I don't know what sort of Hell this is. Maybe there are literal fires, or maybe Hell is just a lonely miserable place, but here is how Jesus describes it in Luke 16:22-24:

...the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Be this metaphorical or literal, this is supposed to go on for an everlasting time, or at least "age-during." Jesus' torment lasted a day. It could have lasted a million years, but it wouldn't really compare to an infinite time.

I have heard some Christians say that the death and torment of God himself counts for more than the death and torment of mere humans. Is this the explanation you take? It seems to be a cop-out more than anything. God seems to be anything convenient for explaining things that are otherwise hard to explain. I have my own explanation.

I think the crucifixion of Jesus was not really intended by either Jesus or God. I suspect that Jesus was a mere mortal who was the leader of his own religious sect. His teachings angered the sanhedrin, and they had him crucified. Such an execution was embarassing to Christians, but they soon adopted a doctrine that Jesus thwarted the executioners and miraculously came back to life, and they even cleverly tied it together with prophecy in Isaiah.

And I think my explanation makes more sense than the doctrine that God made the ultimate sacrifice that lasted three days. I really see no reason that Jesus couldn't have died forever. That would count as a greater sacrifice on par with the sacrifices that happen on Earth every day. Or how about Jesus goes to Hell for eternity, just like everyone who doesn't accept his gift? That would certainly leave me impressed. It would make God look like less of a hypocrite. I was told in church that Jesus came back to life because he conquered death, and at the same time God made some sort of huge sacrifice. But you shouldn't have it both ways. It just doesn't make sense.

Christs's death on the cross is part of God's plan of salvation which was established before the foundation of the earth.

God's desire in the death of his Son wasn't singleminded, that is, just to punish sin. It was also to defeat death and the

grave, redeem humanity to give eternal life to all. It's not just about what god wanted to do to about sin, it's about what

God wanted to for us, because he loves us. In the garden we were in union with him. He is the Lord of Hosts, his spirit

dwelled in Adam and Eve who were in perfect union with god before the fall. When man fell and death entered into the

world through Adam, that union was broken, condemning man by the laws of morality that God in his perfection has

established. God is sinless, and cannot have be in union with sin.

Hell was not created for man, but for the devil and his angels.

Men were NEVER intended to go to hell. The bible clearly states this.

Christ became a man, lived a human life, humbled himself, though he was God he left his home above

to live as one of us, perfect and blameless, he became sin for us. God wanted to redeem humanity

and He himself proved that it is possible to live as one of us and commit no sin.

Christ's ressurection is the defeat of death itself, for the wages of sin are death, but the free gift of

God is eternal life.

He defeated death and the grave, took the keys to death and Hades.

He broke the power of sin over man.

He destroyed the works of the devil.

He restored the perfect union between man and God that once existed prior to the fall.

Without the resurrection, his death would be utterly pointless. God's plan isn't Hell, but eternal life.

He will not violate our free will, if we choose hell he will give us hell.

The depth of God is so much greater than we can ever understand. It goes beyond our trivial understanding of

what a sacrifice is, as though the glorious plan of salvation can be likened unto primitive peoples who sacrifice

animals or even human beings to false gods.

Noone can really fathom what it is like to have the sins of the whole world heaped upon them, every sin

ever commited from the beginning to the end and I am sure it goes beyond any suffering we could

understand, for God himself who never knew sin had to become the very thing he hated.

He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.

He offers the gift of eternal life to you freely.

Choose life, so that you might live. For he came so that you may have life, and have it more abundantly.

[ONE WHO WISHES TO LOVE GOD]

I haven't got any facts on your topic yet, but will concider a major study, there is however one thing that no words can debate, and that is the love and the realness of God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.