"with longsuffering" (in Ephesians 4:2)

[com7fy8]

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

This is about how our Father desires that we relate with each other who are children of God.

He wants us to have "longsuffering" ready, while we share with others who really are Christians.

Because God knows that even ones who are very good for us can at times be wrong.

And instead of throwing out a real friend or a good leader, have "longsuffering" ready so we do not just give up on someone who has been wrong.

Yes, please give scripture and your experience which has helped you with this, and the right way to apply this 

Thank you; God bless you, too.

 

 

[DPMartin]

15 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

This is about how our Father desires that we relate with each other who are children of God.

He wants us to have "longsuffering" ready, while we share with others who really are Christians.

Because God knows that even ones who are very good for us can at times be wrong.

And instead of throwing out a real friend or a good leader, have "longsuffering" ready so we do not just give up on someone who has been wrong.

Yes, please give scripture and your experience which has helped you with this, and the right way to apply this 

Thank you; God bless you, too.

 

 

 

Biblically tolerance is not longsuffering, and longsuffing is not tolerance. The Lord God is longsuffering for the fulfillment of His Word. For example, by Hebrew calendar standards it took approx. 3760 years for Jesus to come into the world when in genesis the Lord said this about the coming of Jesus:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 

 

[com7fy8]

9 hours ago, DPMartin said:

Biblically tolerance is not longsuffering,

I would say this is right. Thank you 

[AdHoc]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:00 AM, com7fy8 said:

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

This is about how our Father desires that we relate with each other who are children of God.

He wants us to have "longsuffering" ready, while we share with others who really are Christians.

Because God knows that even ones who are very good for us can at times be wrong.

And instead of throwing out a real friend or a good leader, have "longsuffering" ready so we do not just give up on someone who has been wrong.

Yes, please give scripture and your experience which has helped you with this, and the right way to apply this 

Thank you; God bless you, too.

 

 

In Ephesians 4 we have TWO unities. One depends upon the other, and BOTH are vital for the gospel. In John 17:11, 21-23 our Lord prays that we Christians would be ONE as He and the Father are one. I verse 23 our ONENESS would be the proof that God has sent Jesus Christ - so great is the call to ONENESS.

The Unity of the Spirit
The first unity is that of the holy Spirit. He has laid the foundation and we are put into this unity. It is not that we must create it. It is already there.

The Gifted Ones
The Chapter goes on to show that the gifts for building the Church are given to men, and that they are given after the ascension.

The Unity of the Faith
The purpose of the unity of the Spirit is to bring together - DESPITE DIFFERENCES - the believers. This unity creates a platform for the gifted ones to function and be heard. The unity of the Spirit and the gifted ones must be maintained "'TILL" we come to the unity of THE FAITH. The word "'TILL" implies that time will go by. A Local Assembly might have to maintain the unity of the Spirit for 20 or 30 years 'TILL the majority, or all, believe the same thing. Verse 14 describes what THE FAITH is. It is doctrine. It is what we believe.

Anyone who has been on this, or another Forum for less than a week, can tell that there is no unity of THE FAITH. The most common reasons are (i) the teachers teach what they think - not what the bible says, and (ii) saints break the unity of the Spirit when they disagree. Christianity is rife with division and the proof of Christ having come is trashed. Just recently, a dear member of this Forum decided against communicating with me because they (no names) did not agree on a point - ONE POINT! Most of us settle on a system of belief after a decade or more. But that is just not long enough to be anchored. Expect the Lord to give you more revelation - and expect that you will have to change your cherished view again (and again).

There are two types of Christian in this matter. (i) Those who have studied and can sustain a debate, and (ii) those who have heard and perhaps studied, but are overwhelmed by the sheer size of the Bible. It is here that the virtues of; "all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" comes into play. The knowledgeable must appreciate that they have received this knowledge as a gift and can make no claim of superiority. The learner, or student, must forebear with the knowledgeable without being jealous. It takes BOTH sides to apply these crucial virtues.

This of course does not mean that you are to relinquish your right to differ. Questions are the foundation of learning. Debate your point energetically. If a teacher is obviously wrong - don't leave. Give him TIME. The Lord's gospel is counting on you.

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

In Ephesians 4 we have TWO unities. One depends upon the other, and BOTH are vital for the gospel. In John 17:11, 21-23 our Lord prays that we Christians would be ONE as He and the Father are one. I verse 23 our ONENESS would be the proof that God has sent Jesus Christ - so great is the call to ONENESS.

The Unity of the Spirit
The first unity is that of the holy Spirit. He has laid the foundation and we are put into this unity. It is not that we must create it. It is already there.

The Gifted Ones
The Chapter goes on to show that the gifts for building the Church are given to men, and that they are given after the ascension.

The Unity of the Faith
The purpose of the unity of the Spirit is to bring together - DESPITE DIFFERENCES - the believers. This unity creates a platform for the gifted ones to function and be heard. The unity of the Spirit and the gifted ones must be maintained "'TILL" we come to the unity of THE FAITH. The word "'TILL" implies that time will go by. A Local Assembly might have to maintain the unity of the Spirit for 20 or 30 years 'TILL the majority, or all, believe the same thing. Verse 14 describes what THE FAITH is. It is doctrine. It is what we believe.

Anyone who has been on this, or another Forum for less than a week, can tell that there is no unity of THE FAITH. The most common reasons are (i) the teachers teach what they think - not what the bible says, and (ii) saints break the unity of the Spirit when they disagree. Christianity is rife with division and the proof of Christ having come is trashed. Just recently, a dear member of this Forum decided against communicating with me because they (no names) did not agree on a point - ONE POINT! Most of us settle on a system of belief after a decade or more. But that is just not long enough to be anchored. Expect the Lord to give you more revelation - and expect that you will have to change your cherished view again (and again).

There are two types of Christian in this matter. (i) Those who have studied and can sustain a debate, and (ii) those who have heard and perhaps studied, but are overwhelmed by the sheer size of the Bible. It is here that the virtues of; "all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" comes into play. The knowledgeable must appreciate that they have received this knowledge as a gift and can make no claim of superiority. The learner, or student, must forebear with the knowledgeable without being jealous. It takes BOTH sides to apply these crucial virtues.

This of course does not mean that you are to relinquish your right to differ. Questions are the foundation of learning. Debate your point energetically. If a teacher is obviously wrong - don't leave. Give him TIME. The Lord's gospel is counting on you.

Good post, brother. In John, Jesus also mentioned our love for each other as an indicator of Christ.

I was thinking again just yesterday…actually with regularity, when reading the forum; a necessary ingredient for us all once we move beyond the simplicity of the cross, assuming we have that foundation, is to not hold doctrine as high towers. In other words, even when we are sure about a thing, to hold it loosely enough before the Lord in a true honest willingness to see more. 
Because its a mess, most important in the context of a local expression, is gathering with a corporate desire to know Christ only as Head.

And to know love. 
For these and other reasons, I say all doctrine must bow at the Cross.

Much of my foundation is in ‘Salvation is Relocation’. It is vital we get that right, because it prevents much error.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Good post, brother. In John, Jesus also mentioned our love for each other as an indicator of Christ.

I was thinking again just yesterday…actually with regularity, when reading the forum; a necessary ingredient for us all once we move beyond the simplicity of the cross, assuming we have that foundation, is to not hold doctrine as high towers. In other words, even when we are sure about a thing, to hold it loosely enough before the Lord in a true honest willingness to see more. 
Because its a mess, most important in the context of a local expression, is gathering with a corporate desire to know Christ only as Head.

And to know love. 
For these and other reasons, I say all doctrine must bow at the Cross.

Much of my foundation is in ‘Salvation is Relocation’. It is vital we get that right, because it prevents much error.

Amen! We are all on a journey, but at different stages. We mustn't insist on the others seeing what we have. The only time we have to act (and this is not valid for the Forum) is when a saint in the Assembly is in a sin that "leavens" the others - like sexual sin. But even the deepest and most crucial doctrine cannot be forced on another saint. The blasphemers on this Forum are adequately dealt with by the moderators. They keep order, not cause division.

[com7fy8]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Verse 14 describes what THE FAITH is. It is doctrine. It is what we believe.

Well, we have Ephesians 4:5 >

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" (Ephesians 4:5)

I think of how Paul says we need > 

"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6).

I would say this "faith" is not doctrine . . . belief . . . which is "working through love." But this faith is deeper than beliefs and ideas. 

And this faith works by means of God's own love . . . not just human love. So, people need more than correct beliefs; we need to be changed from our own human love and ways of loving, and discover how we become and live in God's love. This correct love and loving is deeper than just correct beliefs. And we see how ones can get tangled and mangled as they try to figure out and unite their ideas, but do not grow deeply in how God's love and correction effects our character.

Now you have talked about Ephesians 4:15 > 

"but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head---Christ---" (Ephesians 4:15)

So, yes we need to speak the truth, and this needs to be in God's love. And this ministers how God's love effects us in our character . . . so that "in all things" of Jesus we grow, since God's love is the same in character as Jesus is.

So, we are not only concerned about correct beliefs, but we minister the effect of God's own love to one another. And so the truth is not only the correct beliefs, but Jesus Himself is the "truth" (John 14:6) growing in us >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

But God's words of truth do minister this. As God's word "effectively works in you who believe," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 2:13. This effect depends on God in us working; it does not depend on how well humans can just understand and pick and choose beliefs.

Now I think of this > there are ones who do not talk about how to become changed by God to be and to love like Jesus. And so, their attention could be elsewhere. And so they can get into trouble and word-fussing and fighting and being hurt and feeling rejected . . . unable to ever get unity while their attention is so elsewhere!! But if we read and feed on how God's word means for us to be and to love like Jesus, I think we can get things straight about what is correct for this purpose.

And it is in God's love where we become able to get our understanding of doctrine correct > 

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

And if we are "speaking the truth in love" . . . we are in God's love, actually experiencing how God is in sharing with us. And so, our words are coming not only from scripture, but also from God and His love's realities which scriptures are talking about. And the meaning of what we say is not only some explanation, but how love in us is effecting us and having us live. I personally now find that any scripture can be used by God to help us to become like Jesus and discover how to love in sharing with God. There is the love meaning of any scripture . . . somehow 

So, people can get lost in trouble, if they are mainly dealing with intellectual and doctrinal meanings of words.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, com7fy8 said:

Well, we have Ephesians 4:5 >

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" (Ephesians 4:5)

I think of how Paul says we need > 

"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6).

I would say this "faith" is not doctrine . . . belief . . . which is "working through love." But this faith is deeper than beliefs and ideas. 

And this faith works by means of God's own love . . . not just human love. So, people need more than correct beliefs; we need to be changed from our own human love and ways of loving, and discover how we become and live in God's love. This correct love and loving is deeper than just correct beliefs. And we see how ones can get tangled and mangled as they try to figure out and unite their ideas, but do not grow deeply in how God's love and correction effects our character.

Now you have talked about Ephesians 4:15 > 

"but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head---Christ---" (Ephesians 4:15)

So, yes we need to speak the truth, and this needs to be in God's love. And this ministers how God's love effects us in our character . . . so that "in all things" of Jesus we grow, since God's love is the same in character as Jesus is.

So, we are not only concerned about correct beliefs, but we minister the effect of God's own love to one another. And so the truth is not only the correct beliefs, but Jesus Himself is the "truth" (John 14:6) growing in us >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

But God's words of truth do minister this. As God's word "effectively works in you who believe," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 2:13. This effect depends on God in us working; it does not depend on how well humans can just understand and pick and choose beliefs.

Now I think of this > there are ones who do not talk about how to become changed by God to be and to love like Jesus. And so, their attention could be elsewhere. And so they can get into trouble and word-fussing and fighting and being hurt and feeling rejected . . . unable to ever get unity while their attention is so elsewhere!! But if we read and feed on how God's word means for us to be and to love like Jesus, I think we can get things straight about what is correct for this purpose.

And it is in God's love where we become able to get our understanding of doctrine correct > 

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

And if we are "speaking the truth in love" . . . we are in God's love, actually experiencing how God is in sharing with us. And so, our words are coming not only from scripture, but also from God and His love's realities which scriptures are talking about. And the meaning of what we say is not only some explanation, but how love in us is effecting us and having us live. I personally now find that any scripture can be used by God to help us to become like Jesus and discover how to love in sharing with God. There is the love meaning of any scripture . . . somehow 

So, people can get lost in trouble, if they are mainly dealing with intellectual and doctrinal meanings of words.

I hear you brother. You have many good points here. It's 3 a.m. here and I'm off to bed. I might comment tomorrow, but you've covered your view pretty well. Take care.

[kwikphilly]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:21 PM, com7fy8 said:

Well, we have Ephesians 4:5 >

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" (Ephesians 4:5)

I think of how Paul says we need > 

"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6).

I would say this "faith" is not doctrine . . . belief . . . which is "working through love." But this faith is deeper than beliefs and ideas. 

And this faith works by means of God's own love . . . not just human love. So, people need more than correct beliefs; we need to be changed from our own human love and ways of loving, and discover how we become and live in God's love. This correct love and loving is deeper than just correct beliefs. And we see how ones can get tangled and mangled as they try to figure out and unite their ideas, but do not grow deeply in how God's love and correction effects our character.

Now you have talked about Ephesians 4:15 > 

"but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head---Christ---" (Ephesians 4:15)

So, yes we need to speak the truth, and this needs to be in God's love. And this ministers how God's love effects us in our character . . . so that "in all things" of Jesus we grow, since God's love is the same in character as Jesus is.

So, we are not only concerned about correct beliefs, but we minister the effect of God's own love to one another. And so the truth is not only the correct beliefs, but Jesus Himself is the "truth" (John 14:6) growing in us >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

But God's words of truth do minister this. As God's word "effectively works in you who believe," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 2:13. This effect depends on God in us working; it does not depend on how well humans can just understand and pick and choose beliefs.

Now I think of this > there are ones who do not talk about how to become changed by God to be and to love like Jesus. And so, their attention could be elsewhere. And so they can get into trouble and word-fussing and fighting and being hurt and feeling rejected . . . unable to ever get unity while their attention is so elsewhere!! But if we read and feed on how God's word means for us to be and to love like Jesus, I think we can get things straight about what is correct for this purpose.

And it is in God's love where we become able to get our understanding of doctrine correct > 

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

And if we are "speaking the truth in love" . . . we are in God's love, actually experiencing how God is in sharing with us. And so, our words are coming not only from scripture, but also from God and His love's realities which scriptures are talking about. And the meaning of what we say is not only some explanation, but how love in us is effecting us and having us live. I personally now find that any scripture can be used by God to help us to become like Jesus and discover how to love in sharing with God. There is the love meaning of any scripture . . . somehow 

So, people can get lost in trouble, if they are mainly dealing with intellectual and doctrinal meanings of words.

Blessings Comfy

This is the crux of the matter! This is why there is why we do not see a Unity of the Faith- too many looking in at themselves,leaning on their own understanding and forgetting to set their eyes up above,to Christ Jesus whilst we are kneeling at the foot of the Cross.... The place of repentance,humility,surrendeand submitting to Jesus Lordship - our Redeemer Lives!

One can study diligently morning, noon and night& yes,we are talking about Born Again Believers- our very own Brothers & Sisters - yet their " study" means little.... It's not going to make a difference for anyone without Holy Spirit taking the lead.

Why,if there is but ONE HEAD ,do all the members move in different directions? A disconnect,a short circuit,interference

The Heart & Mind of Christ is our source- there is our Love,our Unity,our connection and we all have access. .. the only hindrance is " self"

Thank you for this insightful msg- I'm thankful for Adhoc ,,& Alives input as well..... These types of threads do not seem to get much attention and this is where our attention should be rather than endless debating to prove who knows the most about Scripture,...  I personally don't care to know about Scripture,about the Word or Doctrine because I Know the Word,I Know Him- He is Truth and He Reveals as I study WITH Him leading the Way .....

Nothing I think I know is as important as WHO I Know- anyway,sorry I'm a bit off Topic but there's just such a rampant spirit of pride bombarding these Forums lately that it's hard to see the Love of Christ in the posters....& much patience and long-suffering is required,isn't it?

In His Love,Kwik

Thanks again,I'll come back to comment on Ephesians after some needed rest❤️

 

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Nothing I think I know is as important as WHO I Know- anyway,sorry I'm a bit off Topic but there's just such a rampant spirit of pride bombarding these Forums lately that it's hard to see the Love of Christ in the posters....& much patience and long-suffering is required,isn't it?

Oh the depths of our fallen nature! I'm guilty. The above is true prophecy according to 1st Corinthians 14:3. Thank you for it.