IF 'the dead' DEAD are not resurrected, who are we to rule and reign over for the 1000 years.

[Selah7]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

So the people in the millennium sin and die?

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

- Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)

Hi, John.  This is my understanding about what happens during the millennium after Satan loses the battles of Armageddon and Hamon-Gog and is bound for 1,000 years.

The 1000-year period known as the Millennium comes before the Great White Throne Judgment.   First of all, there are no second chances, but throughout this time of teaching, those who have never been taught will learn the truth of God's Word. Many people today have either had no education at all or have received false doctrine. They don’t know the truth of God's Word; but throughout the Millennium, every one of these people will have the chance to discover the truth and make their own decisions about whether to follow God or Satan. Since Satan will be let loose for a little while at the end of the millennium, everyone will have the opportunity of choosing God or not. Those who choose God will go through the second resurrection. Those who don’t by the end of this 1,000-year period will perish at the second death.

-Selah 

[Hobie_]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:25 PM, Michael37 said:

The opinion continuum has its variations.

I agree  with the translations that support the tribulation martyrs being the last saints on earth, after whose execution the wrath of God is exacted on the beast, the false prophet, and  those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

Rev 19:11-15  Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war.  (12)  He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.  (13)  He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.  (14)  The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.  (15)  And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

But it only strikes down the unrighteous wicked who are following evil, the saints with Gods seal are not harmed...

Revelation 7:1-3 King James Version

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

Revelation 9:4 King James Version

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, Hobie_ said:

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Yes, Scripture indicates the sealing of these Jewish servants of God precedes the seventh seal judgments.  

Rev 7:4-8  And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:  (5)  From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,  (6)  from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,  (7)  from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,  (8)  from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, and from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

[JohnD]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:02 AM, Selah7 said:

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

- Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)

Hi, John.  This is my understanding about what happens during the millennium after Satan loses the battles of Armageddon and Hamon-Gog and is bound for 1,000 years.

The 1000-year period known as the Millennium comes before the Great White Throne Judgment.   First of all, there are no second chances, but throughout this time of teaching, those who have never been taught will learn the truth of God's Word. Many people today have either had no education at all or have received false doctrine. They don’t know the truth of God's Word; but throughout the Millennium, every one of these people will have the chance to discover the truth and make their own decisions about whether to follow God or Satan. Since Satan will be let loose for a little while at the end of the millennium, everyone will have the opportunity of choosing God or not. Those who choose God will go through the second resurrection. Those who don’t by the end of this 1,000-year period will perish at the second death.

-Selah 

Cutting to the chase. I used to believe the traditional view of the thousand year reign (which you seem to believe pretty much the same way as I did) along with passges like:

Isaiah 65:20 (KJV)
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

But it kept ending up in Revelation 20 with a repeat of Armageddon. And when I discovered the "thousand" year reign is actually (in the Greek) "thousands" years reign... coupled with passages like:

1 John 3:2 (KJV)
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And:

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The kingdom is here now. Has been since the Lord was crucified, raised and ascended.

John 18:36 (KJV)
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Matthew 6:10 (KJV)
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

It's here.

John 6:29 (KJV)
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is his will. And it is being done on Earth as it was in heaven.

Revelation 20 (we must remember) is Hebrew thinking expressed in Greek language.

Western thought is progressive, linear. 1,2,3,4... 

In Middle Eastern thinking, A then C the back to A then B....

Note every use of the word "thousand" is plural in the Greek meaning thousands...

Revelation 20 (KJV)
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit(1) and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season(2).
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(1) This "angel" (actually messenger / Angel of the LORD is none other than Jesus Christ himself):

Revelation 1:17–18 (KJV)
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

The "bottmless pit" is the abyss / great gulf between the place of suffering and Abraham's Bosom in Sheol (Luke 16:19-31).

(2) The abyss is Judas' "own place" (Acts 1:25). 

Verse 4 jumps ahead to a time after severe persecution of the Church (Revelation 12:17-13:18).

Verse 5 defines this interval between the crucifixion of the Lord and his second coming as the first resurrection (meaning Jesus' resurrection) ← New Covenant / Church Age

Verse 6 describes believers in Jesus having eternal life now reigning with him now.

Then the beast is released in the last days / conclusion of the time of the Gentiles (Revelation 11:2). Then the focus will be on Israel again (Jeremiah 30:7).

[JohnD]

The Kingdom of Heaven / Kingdom of God is at hand, near (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 10:7), within (Luke 17:21) ...

Christianity IS this Kingdom. Has been since Christ died on the cross.

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Galatians 3:24–28 (KJV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Ephesians 2:11–22 (KJV)
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Romans 11 (KJV)
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Thus the LORD at long last realizes his goal:

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.**

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Romans 9:6 (KJV)
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 2:28–29 (KJV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise*** is not of men, but of God.

*** Yehudah / Judah = praise (see law of first mention Genesis 29:35)

See also:

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Males and females can become this kind of circumcision...

There is a physical Israel and a Spirit Israel. Born physically Jewish but not Spiritually.

All must be reborn / born from above / Spirit Judah / Spirit Israel in the New Covenant Kingdom of Priests.

[DeighAnn]

27 minutes ago, JohnD said:

See also:

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Males and females can become this kind of circumcision...

There is a physical Israel and a Spirit Israel. Born physically Jewish but not Spiritually.

All must be reborn / born from above / Spirit Judah / Spirit Israel in the New Covenant Kingdom of Priests.

Without a complete understanding of the beginning, it is impossible to rightly divide the words of God.  

This is obvious because what is proposed here has no accounting of the promises and covenants made with Gods people to which ALL the children of God become the inheritors of aka if you are Christs then you are Abrahams seed and heirs....  KNOW WHY?  Because God has had a plan from the very beginning, and though it gone through changes, it still remains the same. 

The UNCONDITIONAL Covenants must be understood and the difference between them and the CONDITIONAL Covenants and if not then we end up with a complete lack of understanding.  We have to remember THEY tried to make themselves ONE KINGDOM again and GOD SAID NO. 

GOD divided them for a purpose and when WE try and treat them as 'ONE' in our understanding, we become the ONES doing what GOD SAID not to do.  

There will NEVER be any understanding of HIS TRUTH until we clearly understand the basics laid out in the Old Testament.  Things like 

Abrahamic Covenant
Davidic Covenant
National Covenant
The LAND of Israel
The Nation of Israel
The House of Israel
The House of Judah
The Whole House of Israel/The House of Jacob

The blessings given to the children
The blessings given to the heads of the tribes individually

The scattered sheep who don't know who they are - the purposes they serve
The tribe who will always know who they are, their blindness and reasons for it.


So yes, we are born again while on this earth, but THE KING was killed and now is at the RIGHT HAND OF GODS THRONE until all enemies made his footstool and only at the 2ND ADVENT when He will sit upon the THRONE of DAVID here on earth and bring in the kingdom that John the Baptist proclaimed was coming to be HERE ON EARTH.  

As of YET not all things are. The 'gathering' of the lost sheep will continue until the 'many sons are brought in', then will come the end of this age.  We are still "in gathering" mode up until the very end.  WHY do you think the 2 witnesses are sent?  (And for sure Gods wrath isn't going to fall on them any more than it will on anyone who is under His wing) 
 

Heb 2
8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12  As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

13  I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14  And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Maybe things to think about

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

And don't we have the hindsight as to exactly what this meant.  

We know THE LOST SHEEP heard/hear HIS VOICE and became/become the 'church/body of Christ/not one lost', obviously they weren't blinded at all, and the House of Judah is still 'under the law' hence they WERE and have been blinded all this time.  

And when will THE BLINDNESS OF THE HOUSE OF JUDAH BE REMOVED?  

WHEN the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.  So when the last 'gentile/scattered sheep has come to faith SO THEN WILL THE HOUSE OF JUDAH no longer be blinded and will be grafted back in. 

THE TWO STICKS shall be made one.  Just like it is written.  


 

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, JohnD said:

1 John 3:2 (KJV)
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It doth NOT YET appear...WE shall be....

 

14 hours ago, JohnD said:

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And yes we have been but UNTIL THE KINGDOMS of the world become HIS, we are still in the gather the 'sons' mode.

 

14 hours ago, JohnD said:

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Yes, we are 'born again' and seek to become holy THROUGH tribulations, chastisements, persecutions....PRIESTS study and learn GODS WAYS so they can then teach them, being 'born again' is the BEGINNING of the journey, not the end, hence the 'ewes and sheep' or milk and meat.


It is all perspective, but our perspective HAD BETTER come from GODS WORDS and his vantage point and not our own 

[Linkin]

On 10/19/2022 at 5:28 AM, DeighAnn said:

I personally have no idea whatsoever,  what many Christians believe, and I know nothing about Greek Mythology.  Whether they teach 'ascending' to heaven or they don't, has no bearing on what is written in the words of God, WHICH I DO have, and have an idea about.  But thank you for sharing.  

 

Which I 100% believe as it is written 

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 

This tells us beyond any shadow of a doubt that when RAISED UP, it is in a body. 

 

John 3:13
And no one has gone up into heaven if not the out of heaven having come down, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 

To which I reply 
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

My questions for you
So, is Jesus standing there talking or is He in heaven?  If He is in heaven then men have ascended because He has come down and gone back up, correct?



 

The Spirit [figuratively] or Breath [literally] of God is what returns to Him. It is nothing to do with us as a person, it is His Breath, not ours.

Animals have the same Breath/Spirit as humans as recorded in Genesis.

If you think people fly away to heaven at death then that would be victory. You have no need of a body to exist.

However, Paul places the victory at the resurrection. 1 Cor. 15:51-55 [quoting from Isaiah 25:8 LXX].

Our Spiritual bodies: “Spiritual” does not mean non-material, but rather that which has been transformed by the holy Breath of God (cf. 1 Cor. 3:1; Gal. 6:1).

Eternal life only comes through the resurrection of the body.

Romans 8:20-25 .....Our hope is the redemption of our bodies..

v24  for in this hope we were saved

1 Cor 15:13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life.....

Daniel 12:13 Daniel will rest [die] then receive his reward at the end of the days [at the resurrection].

Job 19:25-26... even after his flesh has decayed at death Job will see his redeemer in the flesh at the resurrection NOT before. 

The verse also says Job will see him on the earth, ie ''land'', NOT heaven.

See also: Isaiah 26:19, Job 7:21, Psalm 7:5 all return to dust until the resurrection.

God comes to dwell with man  Man does not go to dwell with God

Rev. 21:3. Ezek 37:27, 43:7. Psalm 132:13-14.

 

Your question was referring to where Jesus was when he said that in John 3:13?

Jesus did not say that. It was an editorial comment made by John.

How can that be proved?

John 3:13  ''And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man.

The perfect tense of the verb requires that after ascending, the Son remained in the sky [heaven] at the time these words stated. This is proof that verse 13 was John’s commentary after the ascension rather than being part of Jesus’ dialogue with Nicodemus.

The Apostle John wrote this after the destruction of Jerusalem and the deaths of Peter and Paul. In Acts 2:34-35 Peter said that David had not ascended into the sky.

Jesus is seated at the right hand of The Father Psalm 110:1   ''until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet''.

He cannot leave heaven until the very end when He comes to restore the Kingdom.

Those that believe in a false rapture to heaven ''before the end of all things'' make this verse [Psalm 110:1] a lie.

The wedding of the lamb occurs at the beginning of the Kingdom [Rev. 19]. If Jesus takes His bride to heaven before the wedding of the lamb, he is made a fornicator by dwelling with his bride before the wedding.

Jesus coming in Revelation 16:15 ''as a thief'' is between bowl 6 and bowl 7. [cf. Matt. 24:43-44; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10].

Forgive me for not being able to reply again. I am quite bored with internet  discussions and it is just not for me. 

The most important thing is ''we make ourselves'' clean in God's site [Rev.19:7]. We have to rid ourselves of all filth or God will not welcome us into the Kingdom. Don't be fooled, into thinking a little prayer gets you into the Kingdom, it won't. 

The storm comes for us all. In the gospels, Jesus only took His true believers on the boat, the others were dismissed. They then went through a storm. 

Shadrach, Meshach, & Abednego did not worship the image and were willing to die for their God. 

When the mark and image of the Beast/Antichrist comes watch how few will be willing to go through the storm.

Tribulation starts in 2029 on Rosh hashanah. 2 witnesses will arrive then. It is the end of the Jewish Exile. The 70th Week of Daniel's prophecy. Leviticus 26 explains it. But it is not easy to find unless you have a good knowledge of the Bible. 70 years for the first exile and a multiplication of that number for the length of the second exile, which started in 70AD at the destruction of the Temple/Jerusalem and the Priesthood. Sorry for not explaining it in depth. Of course it will seem weird and unbelievable, but just wait for 2029 [September]. That is when the Bible is really going to come to life.

 

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, Linkin said:

The Spirit [figuratively] or Breath [literally] of God is what returns to Him. It is nothing to do with us as a person, it is His Breath, not ours.

 Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.


 the spirit, i. e. the vital principle by which the body is animated


Why would Jesus need to tell 'the breath of God' to FOLLOW HIM?