enoob57 Posted December 10, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 10, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 12:12 PM, Ghostdog said: sometimes when im reading the ot ill come across a verse that mentions a book thats not in the bible if the bible we have the complete word of God then why mention these other books? and where are these books? Yes, The Bible is complete because God has sealed it Revelation 22:17 (KJV) [17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. [18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. [20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. [21] The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. However, to coin an old phrase 'The half has not been told' The half has not been told! (evangelical-times.org) yet in reality God has told us everything in His Word that is sufficient for living here 2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadworm Posted December 27, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 27, 2022 The Bible is most incomplete. (1) The Bible contains verses about the sanctity of human life, but never directly condemns abortion. That omission is striking in view of the first-century condemnation of abortion in Didache 4:2: "Thou shalt not procure an abortion." (2) The Bible urges us to seek "spiritual gifts (1 Cor.12:31; 14:1)," but gives us no specific guidance on how to do so. (3) The Bible instructs us to "walk in the Spirit" and be "led by the Spirit," but does not offer specific instructions on how to do this? Countless other important examples could be given. This problem illustrates why Catholics reject Sola Scriptura in favor of reliance on both Scription and Tradition guided by the Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted December 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted December 27, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 11:12 AM, Ghostdog said: sometimes when im reading the ot ill come across a verse that mentions a book thats not in the bible if the bible we have the complete word of God then why mention these other books? and where are these books? John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Many of those other books you mention are out there to be read. But suffice it to say, there had to be a limit somewhere as to how big a canon was too big. For example, the Book of Jasher alone is about the same length as the all the books from Genesis through Joshua. Enoch is by no means a short book either. However, all the essentials of the faith can be found in the 66 books. For the relatively few believers who "labor in the word and in doctrine" (1 Tim. 5:17), those other sources can be of real value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted December 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.30 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, Deadworm said: The Bible is most incomplete. (1) The Bible contains verses about the sanctity of human life, but never directly condemns abortion. That omission is striking in view of the first-century condemnation of abortion in Didache 4:2: "Thou shalt not procure an abortion." (2) The Bible urges us to seek "spiritual gifts (1 Cor.12:31; 14:1)," but gives us no specific guidance on how to do so. (3) The Bible instructs us to "walk in the Spirit" and be "led by the Spirit," but does not offer specific instructions on how to do this? Countless other important examples could be given. This problem illustrates why Catholics reject Sola Scriptura in favor of reliance on both Scription and Tradition guided by the Spirit. [1] Abortion? How about "Thou shall not kill". [2] The Bible says that the spiritual gifts are the Holy Spirit's business. In other words, He decides what gifts we should have. The two verses you cited don't say "seek" in my Bible - they say "eagerly desire the greater gifts". That's different than "seek". I also looked on biblehub.com and can't find any Bible that says "seek". [3] How to walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit? It's not rocket science, Deadworm. Start by obedience. "Walk" mean your daily life. Live out the fruit of the Spirit that the Bible clearly defines. To say that the Bible leaves us dumbfounded as how to obey the Holy Spirit's direction just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted December 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Certainly the Holy Scripture is complete and is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted December 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 953 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,579 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,055 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Hi, As I understand it this day; Bibles transliterated into English language are the best efforts of men. Are they complete? Not likely. Are they inaccurate? Perhaps somewhat. Are they sufficient a reveal of Yeshua from Genesis through Revelation ? Yes, yes they are! As to the statement in Revelation "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near".... It is followed within it's text with the admonition to not be adding to this prophecy. It does not state one cannot add nor subtract from the Bible. The Bible has been reorganized by many a scholarly group. The admonition not to add to this prophecy pertains to the prophetic reveal given John, and not the Bible which is far more than simply prophecy in it's entirety. The Bible is the reveal of Yeshua, sufficient for the reader and hearer of it to hear, heed, and be turned about to Yeshua when called specifically by the Holy Spirit to do so. It is understood only by the agency of God the Holy Spirit. The divisions of the separate books written separately by men over vastly separated periods of time may all be inspired for human hands to write by God, but are they - as divided today in English language into chapters, passages, and verses, inspired and also numbered directly by God? Evidently not, but they are the work of men with good purpose serving God's will who acknowledge their work is not inspired but is their best efforts to convey that which has been inspired. Is the Bible 66 books? Might it be the same content is not divided out into that number of books but is still the Bible the reveal of Jesus from beginning to ending? Sure, and it has been so longer than it has been separated into 66 books. Is there missing information that may have been inspired? Is 1 Corinthians not really 2 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians not really 3 Corinthians with there being another letter perhaps inspired by God from Paul to the church at Corinth? Yes, I do believe the inspired letters state one existed. The original King James version formed by committee over a period of time had more Books of the Apogcrypha included than did the version assembled by Rome. Each group battled back and forth over the number of those books to be included with eventually the KJV later being printed without any Apocryphal books at all. The Bible as available to us today can be relied upon, and is used by the Holy Spirit to bring enlightenment of God to all that will be saved in receiving Jesus ( Yeshua) as their Lord God and personal savior. Obviously these are my present conclusions. There was a day when I would have said the Bible is inerrant and consists of 66 books written by God using many human authors. I was saved by the call from the Holy Spirit and led to use one of those 66 book Bibles which I use to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadworm Posted December 28, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Jayne said: [1] Abortion? How about "Thou shall not kill". You ignore the question of what "kill" means here. For example, it's OK to kill animals for food. And progressive Christians point to 5 verses in God's Word that imply a fetus is not a "person:" https://reverbpress.com/religion/bible-supports-abortion/ So it's standoff without the first-century prohibition of divorce in Didache 4:2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 28, 2022 According from God they are 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadworm Posted December 28, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2022 Jayne: "[2] The Bible says that the spiritual gifts are the Holy Spirit's business. In other words, He decides what gifts we should have. The two verses you cited don't say "seek" in my Bible - they say "eagerly desire the greater gifts". That's different than "seek". I also looked on biblehub.com and can't find any Bible that says "seek"." I know Greek and you don't: the Greek in 1 Cor. 12:3 [3] How to walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit? It's not rocket science, Deadworm. Start by obedience. "Walk" mean your daily life. Live out the fruit of the Spirit that the Bible clearly defines. To say that the Bible leaves us dumbfounded as how to obey the Holy Spirit's direction just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadworm Posted December 28, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2022 Just now, Deadworm said: Jayne: "[2] The Bible says that the spiritual gifts are the Holy Spirit's business. In other words, He decides what gifts we should have. The two verses you cited don't say "seek" in my Bible - they say "eagerly desire the greater gifts". That's different than "seek". I also looked on biblehub.com and can't find any Bible that says "seek"." I know Greek and you don't: the Greek in 1 Cor. 12:31 and 14:1 is "zeloo" which means "strive for earnestly." The NRSV gets it right. So my question stands: How do we "strive for" or "seek" the spiritual gifts? Paul never tells us. [3] How to walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit? It's not rocket science, Deadworm. Start by obedience. "Walk" mean your daily life. Live out the fruit of the Spirit that the Bible clearly defines. To say that the Bible leaves us dumbfounded as how to obey the Holy Spirit's direction just wrong. Nope. Paul never offers such a simplistic answer. In any case, "obedience" is far too vague and mechanical. Nor are "the fruit of the Spirit" a matter of fleshly striving; they are fruit of the Spirit, not of human striving. Paul never tells us exactly how to pursue the Spirit so as to manifest all 9 fruit. That's why they are so rare among Christians. If it were as simplistic as you imply, why are the Corinthian manifestations of tongues of the flesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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