Cntrysner Posted November 17, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 224 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: I see that in the letter to the church in Philly ("I will keep you from the hour of trial coming upon the whole world"). And to me it's clear that Revelation 14 also speaks to this as it starts with the appearance of a multitude of first fruits and then just a little later presents a harvest of believers who are taken to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (plus another harvest of wrath/unbelievers). When we are placed into Christ’s body we become firstfruits of the Spirit (Jas 1:18). We died with Him and Resurrected with Him (Rom 6:5) and we even ascended with Him (Eph 2:5-6). If we consider these things to be true (identity in Christ) we can believe Paul understood to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Co 5:8). In all this there is no need to die again or resurrect again but only to ascend to Him when we enter the valley of the shadow of death. Multiple firstfruits ascensions (rapture), absolutely. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted November 17, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 500 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 210 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Vine Abider said: Not sure what you're trying to convey here - in the bolded part & other . . . (care to clarify?) So, as we've been discussing, I just see in various places in scripture that there's conditions stated, and then a reward the Lord gives His children, for a higher level of maturity. I see that in the letter to the church in Philly ("I will keep you from the hour of trial coming upon the whole world"). And to me it's clear that Revelation 14 also speaks to this as it starts with the appearance of a multitude of first fruits and then just a little later presents a harvest of believers who are taken to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (plus another harvest of wrath/unbelievers). Much is said in the NT about maturity of believers, that is, there are conditional rewards for what we do with this grace we've been given, once we accept Him and are born again. Christians are encouraged to properly grow in Christ and those that do get rewarded. Therefore, there are results for not growing and maturing. I see that this is also true concerning the rapture, whereas certain ones will ripen first and be taken before others. But, regardless what we each see concerning these things, the bottom line is always be faithful in the few things the Lord has given you and BE READY SO THAT DAY NOT COME UPON YOU LIKE A THEIF IN THE NIGHT! Playing find the rapture is a luxury that many in the world do not understand. I understand you have found many. I believe that it is dangerous to add things that cannot be there. No one can divorce the rapture from the resurrection and still have biblical integrity. The resurrections are fixed in time and cannot be moved to fit doctrine. How many mature people have been raptured as a reward to this point? I see none. Does that change for special classes? Regarding the first fruit, Jesus was that. Anything after that cannot be titled first fruit. That at best would be second fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 17, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 203 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,476 Content Per Day: 6.16 Reputation: 2,326 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Online Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, seeking the lost said: Playing find the rapture is a luxury that many in the world do not understand. I understand you have found many. I believe that it is dangerous to add things that cannot be there. No one can divorce the rapture from the resurrection and still have biblical integrity. The resurrections are fixed in time and cannot be moved to fit doctrine. How many mature people have been raptured as a reward to this point? I see none. Does that change for special classes? Regarding the first fruit, Jesus was that. Anything after that cannot be titled first fruit. That at best would be second fruit. I think we're clear now on your opinion. Some see things differently. Let's not accuse and judge one another for things seen differently, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,561 Content Per Day: 12.15 Reputation: 3,350 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2022 There is only one rapture mentioned in 1 Corinthians 11.26............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 203 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,476 Content Per Day: 6.16 Reputation: 2,326 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Online Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 27 minutes ago, farouk said: There is only one rapture mentioned in 1 Corinthians 11.26............ And that's one verse. Read through some of my posts on this thread to see many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,561 Content Per Day: 12.15 Reputation: 3,350 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2022 Just now, Vine Abider said: And that's one verse. Read through some of my posts on this thread to see many others. I don't see how the work of Christ at the Cross - once for all - applies so differently to various believers in the church that the end result is supposedly more than one rapture of the church............ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2022 18 minutes ago, farouk said: I don't see how the work of Christ at the Cross - once for all - applies so differently to various believers in the church that the end result is supposedly more than one rapture of the church............ This one thread alone will show you a few different theories about the rapture. Do a search, or just mosey around the different forums, and you will be exposed to much more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 203 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,476 Content Per Day: 6.16 Reputation: 2,326 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Online Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, farouk said: I don't see how the work of Christ at the Cross - once for all - applies so differently to various believers in the church that the end result is supposedly more than one rapture of the church............ The Lord promises to keep the overcomers, in the church in Philadelphia, from the hour of trial to come on the whole world. There are conditions given there for this - He says, "Because you have kept . . ." etc. This is a special condition with a promise for meeting that condition. In Revelation 14, it starts out with a group of people who are called first fruits. Then in verse 14-16 there is a harvest to the Lord in the clouds. (after that then the harvest of wrath) The picture in the OT was there were fruits that ripened before the harvest. So that's just a couple instances in scripture that the Lord will reward maturity/ripeness with a special reaping . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 203 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,476 Content Per Day: 6.16 Reputation: 2,326 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Online Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 On 11/17/2022 at 3:08 PM, seeking the lost said: Regarding the first fruit, Jesus was that. Anything after that cannot be titled first fruit. That at best would be second fruit. I forgot to address this - If you read Revelation 14, you see this said of a group of people: "They were purchased from among mankind and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted November 19, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,461 Content Per Day: 8.10 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2022 10 hours ago, farouk said: There is only one rapture mentioned in 1 Corinthians 11.26............ We need a definition of what exactly "rapture" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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