Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Chapter 7 is clearly about the Jewish tribes, I think most all agree (if that is remotely possible).  The other 144,000 is in chapter 14.  The only thing similar is the 144,000 number.  The description is completely different.

Also, I tend to think the number in chapter 7 is literal, as it spells-out specifically how many from each tribe; the number in chapter 14 then may be figurative . . . most commentators don't seem to know. But this is just an unsubstantiated hunch. In any case, most all agree it is a number showing ultimate completion times a thousand.

Key Points from these chapter 14 verses:

1. The Father & Son's name written on them is similar to Rev 3:12 where He tells overcomers in Philly, "I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name."

2. Virgins are also depicted in the 10 wise & unwise virgins parable in Matthew 25.

3. First fruits in the OT are taken directly into the House of God.  They are multiple in number.

So just these three points may open the door (just even a teensy bit perhaps?) that these could be ones other than the 12 tribes depicted in chapter 7 . . . 

Here is my answer to your three points:

1. Chapter 7 tells us that the 144,000 are sealed on their foreheads, but what that seal is in left out.  Chapter 14 tells us what is on their forehead, "His Fathers name".   That's the seal.
2. If you reread chapter 14:1-5, you will find specifically that the virgins are males, as we read "These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins."
3. The first fruits of the OT speak of setting aside a tithe for Gods work.  Though it is a shadow of what will come, scripture is specific that first fruit spoken of in Revelation 14:4 are those of the 144.000, not the multiple in number, as in the church.

To answer your question, nope, it doesn't open any door, even a "teensy bit".

[OneLight]

28 minutes ago, farouk said:

Oops, thanks; this was a typo; this was of course John 16.33 compared with the great tribulation in Matthew 24.

John 16:31-33 speaks of everyday tribulation, not what was being spoken of in Matthew 24.  Matthew 24 if far more devastating then just having trials and tribulation.  In fact, Jesus said in verse 21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."

[seeking the lost]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

If you are referring to the 144,000 in chapter 14 being the same number as those in chapter 7, those two groups are described completely different, therefore are likely not the same.  (The ones in chapter 7 are clearly Jews.)

You and FreeGrace have said Christ is the only first fruit, and chapter 14 shows that's not the case.  Just like my orange tree - we're getting several first fruits now, but the majority won't ripen for another month!

The number seems similar or maybe the same.  This is a further clarification of who they are and how precious they are to the Father.

There is nothing in the text or context that indicate that they were raptured.   Rapture is defined as those who have not seen death are caught up and changed.  As significant as that is surely the Spirit would not leave that to speculation.  As important as that would be it seems like the text would say clearly, "These did not die but were caught up".

We do see things differently.  My encouragement to you is to not see things that are not there.

[DeighAnn]

16 minutes ago, farouk said:

DeighAnn In any case, I do think 1 Cor. 11.26 which speaks of the Lord's coming does definitely refer to the church.

I am sure it does as there has been A LOT of 'lost sheep' hearing His voice over the past 2 thousand years (along with the whomsoever woulds of the Gentiles) and that isn't going to stop until He returns as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords.  

Certainly, He isn't going to LEAVE the right hand of the Father in heaven UNTIL it is time to sit upon the throne of David here on earth.  Not going to be any 'disobedience' from Him.  

and we KNOW THAT can only come AFTER Satan and his angels are cast to His 'footstool' aka earth, at least if we are going by what is written as being what is meant.  
 

[OneLight]

15 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Exactly!  We all think we've got something and think we know something (think Job's response, etc.) better than the Lamb who is shepherding us!  No sheep would be that dumb.  But, of course, sheep is what the Bible calls us followers in many places - so maybe we're a "special" breed of sheep . . .

We are likened to sheep because sheep knows their masters voice and follow him.  If another tries to call them, they won't go as the voice is not familiar to them.  Likewise, when we hear His voice, we follow Him, not false teachers, false preachers, false anything, as we don't recognize their voice.  The only voice we should listen to and know is His voice, and follow Him.

[missmuffet]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

We are likened to sheep because sheep knows their masters voice and follow him.  If another tries to call them, they won't go as the voice is not familiar to them.  Likewise, when we hear His voice, we follow Him, not false teachers, false preachers, false anything, as we don't recognize their voice.  The only voice we should listen to and know is His voice, and follow Him.

As I have found in many of your threads OneLight I totally agree. 

[Vine Abider]

16 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Here is my answer to your three points:

1. Chapter 7 tells us that the 144,000 are sealed on their foreheads, but what that seal is in left out.  Chapter 14 tells us what is on their forehead, "His Fathers name".   That's the seal.
2. If you reread chapter 14:1-5, you will find specifically that the virgins are males, as we read "These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins."
3. The first fruits of the OT speak of setting aside a tithe for Gods work.  Though it is a shadow of what will come, scripture is specific that first fruit spoken of in Revelation 14:4 are those of the 144.000, not the multiple in number, as in the church.

To answer your question, nope, it doesn't open any door, even a "teensy bit".

1. The point is, it could point to others, like in Philly

2. I think you take "virgins" as not defiled with women, so therefore they must be men, too literally.  For instance, you can be married and still be undefiled, as in Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled." So virgins just means that they are single for the Lord, therefore not necessarily male.

3.  Please restate and clarify, mainly the last sentence.

Thx

[Vine Abider]

15 minutes ago, OneLight said:

We are likened to sheep because sheep knows their masters voice and follow him.  If another tries to call them, they won't go as the voice is not familiar to them.  Likewise, when we hear His voice, we follow Him, not false teachers, false preachers, false anything, as we don't recognize their voice.  The only voice we should listen to and know is His voice, and follow Him.

Well AMEN to that!

[Vine Abider]

8 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

As I have found in many of your threads OneLight I totally agree. 

Are y'all inferring that I'm a false teacher since I may see certain things a little differently?

[OneLight]

7 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

1. The point is, it could point to others, like in Philly

I have no idea what you are referring to.  Where is there are reference of 144,000 in "Philly"?

7 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

2. I think you take "virgins" as not defiled with women, so therefore they must be men, too literally.  For instance, you can be married and still be undefiled, as in Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled." So virgins just means that they are single for the Lord, therefore not necessarily male.

Scripture is very clear in what it is saying about the 144,000.  Why is it so unclear to you, so much that you feel the need to seek explanations elsewhere?

7 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

3.  Please restate and clarify, mainly the last sentence.

Thx

My third point was following your suggestions of the first fruits mentioned in the OT. 

My last sentence was referring to your last sentence "So just these three points may open the door (just even a teensy bit perhaps?) that these could be ones other than the 12 tribes depicted in chapter 7 . . . "