Marilyn C Posted December 12, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,252 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted December 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Vine Abider said: Thanks Marilyn! Can you provide verses for the first two paragraphs? Also, where does the Bema Seat of Christ come in? Lastly, the New Jerusalem has the 12 apostles as foundations . . . why wouldn't all of God's people be there? And the throne of God is there as per Rev 22:3. Hi VA, Good questions there. Here are my two paragraphs with scriptures. We, the Body of Christ who eagerly await the Lord`s return will one day be changed and caught up to meet the Lord together in the air. We then go to the third heaven, (angelic realm) where we take part in the coronation of the Lord as the visible supreme ruler with His Body who are also Kingpriests around His own throne. Heb. 9: 28 eagerly wait. 1 Thess. 4: 13 - 18 caught up. Rev. 3: 21 Lord`s own throne. Rev. 4: 2 & Ps. 2: 6, throne, authority SET in heaven. Acts 3: 20 & 21 restoration of rulership starts in the highest. There has been no visible ruler in the angelic realm since Lucifer was cast out. The Lord only is worthy to visibly rule there. The 24 elders are representative of the Body of Christ. (Rev. 4: 4) Presently the Lord is on the Father`s throne, (authority) but when His Body has been brought to maturity in Him then it will be time for Him to come for us and take us to His own throne which the Father will set up in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) Heb. 1: 3, Ps. 110: 1 Christ at the right hand of the Father on the Father`s throne. Eph. 4: 13 the Body is being brought to maturity, (perfect man) of Christ`s character, (Son of God) and His purposes. Ps. 2: 6, Rev. 4: 2 the Father will set up the Son`s own throne/authority in the third heaven, the highest. (Eph. 1: 22 all things under His feet.) The Bema seat, for rewards done in the power of the Holy Spirit, will be when we first go to heaven. Notice the 24 elders already are crowned, thus they received them before this grand celebration of the Worthy One. (Rev. 4: 4) Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: When we die we go to Heaven to where Jesus Christ is. Is that not good enough for you.. is that not what Jesus said repeatedly that I will take no one to me and to the Heavenly Father as he is in the body...that everyone has to die first....and then they will joint him in Heaven... Whether it will be imediatly or in a few minutes or in a few hours or in a few days and is not the same for a one, why it has to be the same for anyone....very legalistic approach. Why keep saying about the body and is our soul remain in the body or not...who cares about the body if someone was involved in an accident and die from starvation do you want them to look like that for all eternity...this is not fair. Why you are insisting for a yes or not. ..without first saying your thoughts to be in a position to see if our thoughts are align , if our stars are align, that's what people say to entertain them selves wanted to say if they are in agreement after a reasonable examination. If you want to know when you are in Heaven you will not be taught many things you are believing now...or you will not let you teach those things in Heaven... Your time in the body is finish when we die...but our time on earth who knows if Jesus sends us on a mission on earth as we have been taught from the scriptures as the servants of the Almighty God (this time) Jesus Christ...not as the Lord God Almighty of the Jews this time with the evidence of the wounds in his hands and the wound from the spear in his side.. one wound while he was still alive and he can feel the pain and one after he had died and he was already in the place of the dead.... Jesus died as a man..under the Law...did he remained in the body after he died? Of course not he went imediatly to the place of the dead he still had to complete his mission or his mission in the place of the dead.... After that and the resurrection many things have changed, they have become new... We as believers in Jesus Christ we go where Jesus is, thanks God he was raised from the dead and he is in Heaven and that's where we will be and follow him...that's what Jesus said where I will go to the Father you will also be...the Father is waiting for you, he already has prepared a place for you, he is anxious to meet you. Before the judgement he knows that you are going to him and he has a place prepared for you...are you afraid of something...he is anxious to meet you and how about you....he knows everything about you and he is still anxious to meet you... Why you are trembling like a leaf in that thought. He said that to make happy and not to make you feel like the way you were feeling thinking have I pass the exams or not. I don't want a huge answer that I could publish. I want a simple answer. I am done with this. I am just wondering if you believe in soul sleep. That is when a person believes that the body and soul stay in the grave. The soul does not immediatedly go to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 13,128 Content Per Day: 9.65 Reputation: 13,669 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: will not go into details, but there was a gate to enter Jerusalem during Jesus's time walking the earth named the “the eye of the needle.” A camel could pass through, but it had to be unpacked and specially trained to crawl through that gate, it was not impossible, but many could not pass through. Yes I was familiar with that. Many are not aware of it. 4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Yep, science and CERN are working feverishly to unravel the mystery of dimensions. It is a hard concept to understand and relate to. Spiritual beings are all around us, working for and against us, and we are unaware, all at the same time and space. Another topic, but I think that is what these UAPs (UFOs) are doing, deceiving, popping in and out of their dimension. If one reads the official government UAP report, it is laughable at the two most obvious explanations they omit. Dimensional & spiritual. The report adheres to evolution theory, but I believe it will in the future the word panspermia will be in frequent use. Lots of areas to get into there. I have not heard much about CERN lately. On witnesses- Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, They are watching us and probably taking notes. Ever since the government used occult practices to gain power, I think there has been some dimentional interest. I see most UFOs, portals and similar as being the same thing. Many of these so called craft that don't belong to us don't have the behavior of a machine. CE-5 is yet another serious quest by often unknowing people into the world of the occult. The devil's world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,894 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,778 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, missmuffet said: I don't want a huge answer that I could publish. I want a simple answer. I am done with this. I am just wondering if you believe in soul sleep. That is when a person believes that the body and soul stay in the grave. The soul does not immediatedly go to heaven. This is some reason to celebrate... This a different question and it does not take much to give an answer....I DON'T. In my old years and I have heard that people believing in that thing and I am still in a state of shock that it could be possible for believers to believe something like that.. And it is not about the simple believers who believe that but it is about the people who teach those things...and I am still trying to figure this out... I understand that there people who by doing good to others who are in need to use the good they do to take people CAPTIVES. To impose their will upon them and asked them for their loyal support in anything they asked them. Even for political reasons...they will tell them whom to vote for... I believe it is all politics and it is started from people who they do not want to remember...some memories are not good...they relived the trauma all over again...so there are many reasons why they have supporters...some they are born into that and just continue the family tradition and they want to keep the family together... This is my answer, and you must be able by what I wrote and my response to be able to have the answer you are looking for... Hope that you have the clear answer from my comments... If someone asked what you thing about this brother in this matter, you should be able to tell from your own understanding without the need to hear the specific words for words...and it counts...the point is from what I am posting do you believe that I believe in what you are calling "soul sleeping" . PS I DON'T and none of my family does, close or distant relatives and none of my friends, this is the reason that I never heard about it till I became a member in this fellowship. I am still wondering what kind of personal problem it is on the table, the solution to a personal problem for someone not to want to be with Jesus or to oppose to be with Jesus at the time of their death... Instead of praying and hoping that the Lord will sent his Angels to take him home to Heaven to their Heavenly Inheritance they hope for what for someone to come and cary them in their unconscious state to where? A place that do not know...and kept there..and are not allowed to choose the place and aprove it before they die. They cannot even recognize who is taking them... a blind trust to the unknown... But the point is that Jesus Christ has decided these matters and he never preached that or he asked his disciples to preach anything like that... Edited December 13, 2022 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: This is some reason to celebrate... This a different question and it does not take much to give an answer....I DON'T. In my old years and I have heard that people believing in that thing and I am still in a state of shock that it could be possible for believers to believe something like that.. And it is not about the simple believers who believe that but it is about the people who teach those things...and I am still trying to figure this out... I understand that there people who by doing good to others who are in need to use the good they do to take people CAPTIVES. To impose their will upon them and asked them for their loyal support in anything they asked them. Even for political reasons...they will tell them whom to vote for... I believe it is all politics and it is started from people who they do not want to remember...some memories are not good...they relived the trauma all over again...so there are many reasons why they have supporters...some they are born into that and just continue the family tradition and they want to keep the family together... This is my answer, and you must be able by what I wrote and my response to be able to have the answer you are looking for... Hope that you have the clear answer from my comments... If someone asked what you thing about this brother in this matter, you should be able to tell from your own understanding without the need to hear the specific words for words...and it counts...the point is from what I am posting do you believe that I believe in what you are calling "soul sleeping" . PS I DON'T and none of my family does, close or distant relatives and none of my friends, this is the reason that I never heard about it till I became a member in this fellowship. I am still wondering what kind of personal problem it is on the table, the solution to a personal problem for someone not to want to be with Jesus or to oppose to be with Jesus at the time of their death... Instead of praying and hoping that the Lord will sent his Angels to take him home to Heaven to their Heavenly Inheritance they hope for what for someone to come and cary them in their unconscious state to where? A place that do not know...and kept there..and are not allowed to choose the place and aprove it before they die. They cannot even recognize who is taking them... a blind trust to the unknown... But the point is that Jesus Christ has decided these matters and he never preached that or he asked his disciples to preach anything like that... You still didn't answer my question honestly. So I will assume you believe in soul sleep. Are you SDA, JW or Christadelphian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,501 Content Per Day: 6.14 Reputation: 2,352 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Excuse me for butting in; I know you are not addressing me. You are bringing up these thought-provoking topics worth studying; iron sharpens iron. I like using an analogy of a tire to understand our tri-part makeup better, and I need to use a book for dummies to know how to turn on my computer. Much less my understanding of a tri-part being. I see the rubber tire as our outer shell bodies; with mileage, time, and events, they wear down and eventually need to be recycled or buried. I use the innertube to represent our soul and air to animate (Holy Spirit) and allow the tire to move and press forward. The innertube and air are interrelated; once pressurized, it takes an outside force to divide and separate them. They are one as long as they last. Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [emphasis added] It sounds as if the soul and spirit are interconnected in some way. God divides them at physical death, then: Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. The soul is sent to one of two places to await the Bema Seat or GWT judgment. I am interested in alternate thoughts. I like the tire analogy and the explanation. There is a school of thought that the soul (inner tube) is not eternal and that the bible doesn't state that it is. (Rather, supposedly, it was a Greek thought that some in the early church brought in.) Taking that thought, those of Adam's race without Christ, are really walking dead (flat tires). That is, their souls and spirits are dead (flat, with no function). But when they are reborn after accepting Christ, the spirit is enlivened once more. 1st Corinthians 6:17 says, "He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." So our spirit gets regenerated - air comes into the flat tire. Howzat sound? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,894 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,778 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, missmuffet said: You still didn't answer my question honestly. So I will assume you believe in soul sleep. Are you SDA, JW or Christadelphian? I am sorry for you having a problem to understand my posting and I have post things contrary to your assumptions....so please if you want to say something about the issue at hand I will be happy to participate...if you have any questions like the other poster please just asked...the OP is very generous to us and we have a duty not to make him feel that we are taking advantage of his kindness rather than show appreciation for his generosity...so please..no more accusatory assumptions. My family had enough and are very upset, and are asking me to report you.. I am not going to ask things like, what is SDA and what is JW and the other one...and asking you to educate me in what they believe..also I am not interested to know about them and I do not have the time...and I did not ask to discuss about them...please to not force this discussion on me without my consent...as I did not participate in this thread to discuss about all those groups you are investigating...please keep the peace. God bless Edited December 13, 2022 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 16 hours ago, missmuffet said: What happens to their soul? The body only stays in the grave until they are resurrected. 1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. When we die, our flesh bodies (“natural bodies”) will return to dust and we will be “raised” into our spiritual bodies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,501 Content Per Day: 6.14 Reputation: 2,352 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi VA, Good questions there. Here are my two paragraphs with scriptures. We, the Body of Christ who eagerly await the Lord`s return will one day be changed and caught up to meet the Lord together in the air. We then go to the third heaven, (angelic realm) where we take part in the coronation of the Lord as the visible supreme ruler with His Body who are also Kingpriests around His own throne. Heb. 9: 28 eagerly wait. 1 Thess. 4: 13 - 18 caught up. Rev. 3: 21 Lord`s own throne. Rev. 4: 2 & Ps. 2: 6, throne, authority SET in heaven. Acts 3: 20 & 21 restoration of rulership starts in the highest. There has been no visible ruler in the angelic realm since Lucifer was cast out. The Lord only is worthy to visibly rule there. The 24 elders are representative of the Body of Christ. (Rev. 4: 4) Presently the Lord is on the Father`s throne, (authority) but when His Body has been brought to maturity in Him then it will be time for Him to come for us and take us to His own throne which the Father will set up in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) Heb. 1: 3, Ps. 110: 1 Christ at the right hand of the Father on the Father`s throne. Eph. 4: 13 the Body is being brought to maturity, (perfect man) of Christ`s character, (Son of God) and His purposes. Ps. 2: 6, Rev. 4: 2 the Father will set up the Son`s own throne/authority in the third heaven, the highest. (Eph. 1: 22 all things under His feet.) The Bema seat, for rewards done in the power of the Holy Spirit, will be when we first go to heaven. Notice the 24 elders already are crowned, thus they received them before this grand celebration of the Worthy One. (Rev. 4: 4) Marilyn. Thanks for this reply Marilyn! I'm quite busy, but plan to look at it in a few days when I get some free time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 13, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 349 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,515 Content Per Day: 2.69 Reputation: 5,415 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Vine Abider said: I like the tire analogy and the explanation. There is a school of thought that the soul (inner tube) is not eternal and that the bible doesn't state that it is. (Rather, supposedly, it was a Greek thought that some in the early church brought in.) Taking that thought, those of Adam's race without Christ, are really walking dead (flat tires). That is, their souls and spirits are dead (flat, with no function). But when they are reborn after accepting Christ, the spirit is enlivened once more. 1st Corinthians 6:17 says, "He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." So our spirit gets regenerated - air comes into the flat tire. Howzat sound? Zat sounds great. 😊 It is all only my understanding and how I paste it in my mind trying to form a mental picture and understanding. As with everyone else, our mileage varies. With that said, the following is the long way to make another observation: It appears the Lord did not need but desired two families acting and cooperating as one out of love (1 John). A spiritual family and a flesh-and-blood human family as His children, to share in His work, plans, administration, and purposes. Job 38:7 (KJV) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? We know the heavenly host was created before Adam. Adam was directly created by God and is, therefore, a son of God. By extension, we are sons of Adam (or sons of man). Because of sin and the fall, we can once again become the sons of God through redemption and the free gift of Salvation. Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of humanity only, not fallen angels who sinned and rebelled, and they are not eligible for forgiveness under the blood of Jesus. Angles were created immortal, as was Adam. God created and gifted immortality to His created beings, and nowhere does the Bible hint at annihilating or taking back that gift. Good explanation: Who Are Angels? (blueletterbible.org) The following is controversial, but it is the way I understand it. Genesis 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. I have reservations about the generally accepted view that this is the Trinity talking between themselves. Is one of the omniscient God Heads suggesting to the other two omniscient God Heads something? Or is the triune God speaking to an audience, the heavenly host? The angels had the privilege to witness most of creation, including that of Adam. This kingship is over the first heaven, not the second or third heavens. Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. [emphasis added] 5883 נֶפֶשׁ (ně·p̄ěš): n.fem.; ≡ Str 5315; TWOT 1395a, 2. LN 26 heart, the inner self, i.e., the essence of life, including thinking, feeling, willing, desiring; [1] Said another way. Our individuality and uniqueness, our free will (self-will), our likes and dislikes, our talents, our physical senses, the ability to reason and critically thinking, the ability to love and hate, the ability to move, function, and navigate (motor skills), etc. How many of the above attributes are seen in the rich man in Hades? All the above to say: Our soul and spirit are separated at physical death, the body goes to the grave, and the spirit returns to the Lord who gave it. Our soul, our person, defined above, temporarily goes to a place somewhere to await resurrection and judgment. It can never be annihilated because it was given to be immortal. If that status was changed, it was not immortal, to begin with. Perhaps my feeble fallible mind looks at this incorrectly, and I am off base? I seldom claim to have the correct exegesis. Maybe my thoughts and opinions border on eisegesis, so I always encourage to be like the Bereans. Do not take anyone’s word for the interpretation of scripture. [1] Swanson, James. Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) 1997: n. pag. Print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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