Question about biblical dress/modesty

[αγάπη]

5 hours ago, Starise said:

I think it's all really pretty simple. Is it something you would have used to your advantage to attract the opposite sex? 

If so, cover it up unless you are showing to to your husband in private.

Is the clothing such that if you bend over nothing shows from all angles? Low cut tops in stairwells don't work. I have been sitting across the table from a friends wife at a restaraunt and my eyes were just looking straight ahead but happened on a certain area of the chest. At that same time, she seen where my eyes were and she looked uncomfortable like she thought I might be specifically looking there. I wasn't. It was just that she was sitting in front of me and my eyes went down. I have to ask myself, if it made her uncomfortable , then why wear that dress to start with? 

Just never give any room for probems and you won't have any problems. There are plenty of unsaved women who could care less we man have to worry about. 

It is a well known fact that women who want attention use certain assets to their benefit, although I have never seen the value in attracting any sleeze ball that sees you or even a potential boyfriend if said boyfriend only likes you for those assets. If you marry and grow old together, I certainly hope there is more to it than that since those visual assets will go away or decrease eventually.

But I see it a lot working in a college town, especially in the summer. I have to ask myself, Is she selling herself? And on at least one occasion someone ran into a tree with a pickup truck because his eyes were not on the road. He would never admit it, but when classes change it's almost a skimpy fashion show on the sidewalk. These young women are young enough to be my daughters, so I digress. I like to think I am well past all of that now as a happily married man, but I feel sorry for those young dudes who are trying to make the right choices and get a decent education. 

It's the old bees to honey attractions thing and in order to be noticed 'some' women seem to lean a lot on the physical. This is probably a stereotype I have since I doubt this is all women, and Christian women especially I would hope are different. No you don't have to dress Mennonite or Amish, just not suggestively, because it 'suggests' things.

Just my .000002 from a man's perspective.

 

I agree, if we focus on not dressing in a way to make anyone else stumble, we should be doing well enough there. 

Thank you for your perspective! 😊

[αγάπη]

16 hours ago, Marathoner said:

That's to be expected, my friend. Most of us have been through this, and the Lord is faithful to bring us low so that we understand there is no righteousness in this flesh. The outside of the cup is nothing; the inside of the cup is everything.

Remember the words of the Lord from Matthew 23:26 regarding this matter. 

Thank you 😊 

[farouk]

1 hour ago, αγάπη said:

I know there are different opinions on salvation & whether we can ever truly lose it. 

I believe this person is coming from a place of, "faith without works is dead". No, the lack of dress is not what condemns me, but it is a lack of fruit that shows that I haven't truly been born again. 

Romans 8 and John's First Epistle are wholesome and searching passages to help those who struggle with assurance.

[αγάπη]

Just now, farouk said:

Romans 8 and John's First Epistle are wholesome and searching passages to help those who struggle with assurance.

I will read Romans 8, thank you! 😊 

[Neighbor]

19 hours ago, αγάπη said:

This specific person mentioned God clothing Adam & Eve, as well as I believe it was Paul talking about dressing modestly. I can't quote scripture on this, my apologies. 

I want to live as God wants me to; Obedience to his Word. 

Per this specific person, I must be in all obedience to God's Word or I am outside of His Grace. 

I suggest that it doesn't matter how you attire yourself there will be a misguided saint or a minion of Satan ready to correct you and mold you into their image. 

Be kind, if you can, to them; but don't bother yourself deeply over what they think you should look like. Let their error remain theirs, don't compound it by  complying for their sake as they will just come back with yet another correction for you to have to tend about yourself. It is just what some people do. Though I guess you could ask of them; "Are you the one the Holy Spirit has shared with me that will come along and provide me with an entire new wardrobe? Bless you if you are."

[αγάπη]

10 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

I suggest that it doesn't matter how you attire yourself there will be a misguided saint or a minion of Satan ready to correct you and mold you into their image. 

Be kind, if you can, to them; but don't bother yourself deeply over what they think you should look like. Let their error remain theirs, don't compound it by  complying for their sake as they will just come back with yet another correction for you to have to tend about yourself. It is just what some people do. Though I guess you could ask of them; "Are you the one the Holy Spirit has shared with me that will come along and provide me with an entire new wardrobe? Bless you if you are."

Thank you for commenting! 

A part of me is like, why did I even give them my attention over this matter at all, while another part is thinking, what if they are correct? 

I do try to be kind to everyone, including them, although it is mighty hard at times.

Thanks again! 😊 

[Neighbor]

34 minutes ago, αγάπη said:

Thank you for commenting! 

A part of me is like, why did I even give them my attention over this matter at all, while another part is thinking, what if they are correct? 

I do try to be kind to everyone, including them, although it is mighty hard at times.

Thanks again! 😊 

Sharing a story I have likely told before. One of our "church Ladies" scolded me before the entire gathering of a ladies group that had complained the air conditioner was not  working and they were uncomfortable. I went on the roof tended to the HVAC unit failure issue which meant I had my head inside it for a half hour in 135 degreee roof top temperature.

Once it had been running for a bit I went back down a dirty sweaty wringing wet mess to the room and asked if they were comfortable now. Our own "church lady"  said, You should dress much better and neater for you too represent the church you know.

I said; I take it you are more comfortable now? Good!

Ha, I chuckled all the way down the hallways to the water fountain at the church  office area. The youth pastor attired in an old t-shirt and shorts  was there and asked what I was  chuckling about.  Oh just something that strikes me as funny.

[αγάπη]

6 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Sharing a story I have likely told before. One of our "church Ladies" scolded me before the entire gathering of a ladies group that had complained the air conditioner was not  working and they were uncomfortable. I went on the roof tended to the HVAC unit failure issue which meant I had my head inside it for a half hour in 135 degreee roof top temperature.

Once it had been running for a bit I went back down a dirty sweaty wringing wet mess to the room and asked if they were comfortable now. Our own "church lady"  said, You should dress much better and neater for you too represent the church you know.

I said; I take it you are more comfortable now? Good!

Ha, I chuckled all the way down the hallways to the water fountain at the church  office area. The youth pastor attired in an old t-shirt and shorts  was there and asked what I was  chuckling about.  Oh just something that strikes me as funny.

I have been a very prideful person for a long time. I have gotten better about it over some time. 

It sounds like you handled that situation with grace & let it roll off your back. Great job! 😊

[Tristen]

8 hours ago, αγάπη said:

I know there are different opinions on salvation & whether we can ever truly lose it. 

I believe this person is coming from a place of, "faith without works is dead". No, the lack of dress is not what condemns me, but it is a lack of fruit that shows that I haven't truly been born again. 

This phrase from James 2 is commonly misused to encourage Christians out of the freedom of "grace", and into the bondage of law/legalism. The general point of James is that it is not good enough to simply claim belief. As James says, "Even the demons believe" (James 2:19). A true conversion to Christ (via a living, sincere faith) will generate positive change in the person - from the inside, out. There will be changes in how we think, and subsequently, how we behave - because the Holy Spirit is in us, guiding us towards our destiny. These changes will manifest in "the fruit of the Spirit" (noting that fruit does not immediately appear on a bush, but has to grow and ripen over time).

Galatians 5:22-23 - the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law

James 2 is not suggesting people enslave themselves to a list of rules, but is rather encouraging Christians to embrace the changes enacted by the Holy Spirit.

 

I would also reinforce the fact that "this person" has not provided any reason (backed-up by the authority of scripture) in support of the claim that God expects us to "dress exactly like God clothed Adam & Eve (tunic like garments)". Therefore, even if there was a list of rules for us to follow (which there is not, but if there was), this would not be on it.

 

[αγάπη]

12 hours ago, Tristen said:

This phrase from James 2 is commonly misused to encourage Christians out of the freedom of "grace", and into the bondage of law/legalism. The general point of James is that it is not good enough to simply claim belief. As James says, "Even the demons believe" (James 2:19). A true conversion to Christ (via a living, sincere faith) will generate positive change in the person - from the inside, out. There will be changes in how we think, and subsequently, how we behave - because the Holy Spirit is in us, guiding us towards our destiny. These changes will manifest in "the fruit of the Spirit" (noting that fruit does not immediately appear on a bush, but has to grow and ripen over time).

Galatians 5:22-23 - the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law

James 2 is not suggesting people enslave themselves to a list of rules, but is rather encouraging Christians to embrace the changes enacted by the Holy Spirit.

 

I would also reinforce the fact that "this person" has not provided any reason (backed-up by the authority of scripture) in support of the claim that God expects us to "dress exactly like God clothed Adam & Eve (tunic like garments)". Therefore, even if there was a list of rules for us to follow (which there is not, but if there was), this would not be on it.

 

Thank you for the detailed comment, Tristen! 

"This person" also mentioned Paul talking about dressing modestly, but also the greek word of something Paul said = wearing tunics? If we are to imitate Christ, & also Paul as he imitates Christ, we should then dress according to how Paul teaches ("This person's argument"). 

My apologies for the lack of Scripture. I hope what I am saying is making sense. I'll go ahead & a post a link to this person's article which speaks about what they believe. 

http://spiritandtruthdiscernment.blogspot.com/2014/10/biblical-apparel-does-gods-word-teach.html (It is a long read, which I don't expect you to read it. Just placing it here, as to avoid any confusion as to what "this person" is stating about Biblical dress).

I am struggling with how to be obedient, but not to be living under the law. We are told to strive to enter the narrow gate. We are also told that few people will find the entrance via the narrow gate. 

I believe God in His mercy illuminates the narrow road we are to travel by not only His Word, but via His Holy Spirit, which leads us into ALL Truth. 

Thank you for your patience & time spent replying to me