Who is "Alive & Remains" in 1 Thess 4:17?

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Exactly my question. You have written "the RISING ... FROM THE DEAD" above. If the saints are in heaven it would be "they DESCEND ...", for the body is in the tomb ON EARTH.

A grave situation, having a mortal body subject to decay, so that's why it was said from dust you came, and to dust you shall return, a reference to Genesis 3:19.

[seeking the lost]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:01 PM, WilliamL said:

The last "day" is the 7th Millennium, according to Bible speak: the last "day" of the 7-day week of 1000 years each.

There will be no literal last day, because the ages will never end:

Ephesians 3:21 ...to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever [literally, unto the ages of the ages].

 

That is interesting.  The world as we know it will pass away with fervent heat.  The culmination will be the resurrection/rapture followed by judgment.  This is the time of separating the sheep and the goats.  

[seeking the lost]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:35 PM, truth7t7 said:

I Disagree

As was clearly shown, there is one future time that "All" will be resurrected, this takes place at the second coming on the last day (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

That statement neglects the statement of Revelation 20.  This passage declares that there is a limited resurrection at the end of the tribulation and a second resurrection after the thousand years.

[seeking the lost]

On 2/2/2023 at 5:08 AM, Diaste said:

I would only suggest it's the beheaded and those who did not receive the mark and those who refused to worship the beast and his image. 

A reason for this is the living taken off the earth when Jesus arrives. The living taken up will have refused the mark and the worship. 

Another is the ones from out of GT in Rev 7. I'm convinced this is the living and the resurrected dead taken up when Jesus returns.

From that it seems to me that both the living taken up and the resurrected dead are in the group in Rev 20 and rule and reign with Jesus for 1000. 

But still only those from GT who faced the beast.

[maybe also any throughout all time who were beheaded for the word of God and their testimony of Jesus. Just a thought.]

IMO

 

Those that are resurrected after the tribulation are not going up.  They are raised to reign on the earth.  There is no mention of them ascending or anyone else going up with them.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

That statement neglects the statement of Revelation 20.  This passage declares that there is a limited resurrection at the end of the tribulation and a second resurrection after the thousand years.

I Strongly Disagee, Daniel 12:1-2 below sets the time of the resurrection and "Final Judgement" at the time of The Great Tribulation, great world trouble never seen in history, "At That Time" the resurrection if "All" takes place, as "The Book Of Life" is seen opened, this will be a "One Time Judgement" (The End)

You can repeat yourself a hundred times, the scripture below shows your claim of "Two Resurrection" 1,000 years apart to be "False", it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

"At That Time"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Edited February 4, 2023 by truth7t7

[seeking the lost]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I Strongly Disagee, Daniel 12:1-2 below sets the time of the resurrection and "Final Judgement" at the time of The Great Tribulation, great world trouble never seen in history, "At That Time" the resurrection if "All" takes place, as "The Book Of Life" is seen opened, this will be a "One Time Judgement" (The End)

You can repeat yourself a hundred times, the scripture below shows your claim of "Two Resurrection" 1,000 years apart to be "False", it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

"At That Time"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Thy people shall be delivered does not equal a resurrection/rapture.  The clarity of the time is given to John by Jesus.  That revelation of Jesus does not agree with your interpretation of Daniel's revelation.

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Those that are resurrected after the tribulation are not going up.  They are raised to reign on the earth.  There is no mention of them ascending or anyone else going up with them.

"After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

They ascend this far, anyway.

Then....

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation to our God,

who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!”

11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15For this reason,

This group out of GT is standing about a throne where God sits. The Lamb, the elders and the four living creatures are there as well. 

So this isn't the throne in heaven and this isn't the resurrected saints from GT standing about the throne in the presence of God, the Lamb, the elders and the four living creatures?

[WilliamL]

On 2/4/2023 at 9:32 AM, seeking the lost said:

The world as we know it will pass away with fervent heat. 

Paraphrasing 2 Peter 2:10. A few verses earlier, he wrote,

2 Peter 2:5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

Was that perished world's earth utterly destroyed? No. Neither will the present world's earth be utterly destroyed at the Parousia of the Lord, when this present world-age shall perish; at which time

Rev. 6:14 ...the sky recede as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island [is] moved out of its place.

God's full dissolution of the earth will not take place until after the end of the Millennium, as Rev. 20:11 - 21:1 makes perfectly clear.

[truth7t7]

22 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Thy people shall be delivered does not equal a resurrection/rapture.  The clarity of the time is given to John by Jesus.  That revelation of Jesus does not agree with your interpretation of Daniel's revelation.

To claim their is no resurrection taking place below would be a false assumption, and yes it clearly teaches that "The People" will be found in the book of life, and yes this takes place at the time of "Tge Great Tribulation" "At That Time"

You can shout it 99 more times, there will be one future time of resurrection of "All" and near the time of "The Great Tribulation"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[seeking the lost]

15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

To claim their is no resurrection taking place below would be a false assumption, and yes it clearly teaches that "The People" will be found in the book of life, and yes this takes place at the time of "Tge Great Tribulation" "At That Time"

You can shout it 99 more times, there will be one future time of resurrection of "All" and near the time of "The Great Tribulation"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I believe that each of these things will happen, 1) there will be a time of great trouble, 2)People will be delivered, and 3) there will be a resurrection of the dead.   This being said they do not happen at the same time.  The timeline cannot conflict with that which is revealed in Revelation.  It is important not to add to the writings of this book.