Will the Day of the Lord come as a thief, or will there be signs first?

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, Uriah said:

Rev 11:15- And the seventh angel sounded...

Rev 11:- And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth

This is the RESURRECTION...that is at the END!

Means:  a shortened version of "as if it were so" "that is", "just as", "so to speak"

Look at Rev 11:1 & 2- Totally a different vision than the following verses. Easy to see.

 

You missed something: verse 11 is a PROPHECY given by the 24 elders of FUTURE events (from the point of view of the midpoint of the week. We find these events happening LATER in the book.

11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

11:1 and 2 are John's instructions to measure the new Jewish temple, and count the worshipers inside. 

Why Did God want this here to begin this chapter? Because in verse 15 of this chapter, the temple will be desecrated. The man of sin will enter the Holy of Holies and declare he is God. 

As I see it, this was where, in the vision John was watching, God would tell He to go and measure the temple: right after the 6th trumpet events will end. I suspect when that time comes, God is going to send John to measure, just as this verse tells us. 

In other words, this event did not happen in 95 AD or whenever John saw the vision. At that time the temple was destroyed. I see this relating with this chapter because of the abomination about to happen. 

I asked God about verse 2. Why, at this time, would the outside court begin to be trampled and it continue for 42 months. I believe God answered me. I suddenly understood that the man of sin must first be in Jerusalem since he will enter the temple in Jerusalem. This verse shows us the man of sin moving to Jerusalem, probably with a Gentile army with him. They will trample the outside court.

I believe this is why the two witnesses suddenly show up right then: they come then because the man of sin just came.

Question: where in Revelation do you see the OT saints being resurrected?

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

                                       Revelation’s Judgments

Rev 16:12- And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared

Rev 9:14- Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

WHEN will the sixth angel sound His trumpet? It will be some unknown time before the man if sin abominates. (the simplest way to write "he will do his abomination). Not a LONG time, because there will be only 1260 days for the trumpets, and the 7th don't count, for it will mark the exact time of the abomination. So 6 trumpets fill up 42 months or 1260 days. Therefore the 6th trumpet will sound in time for all the events to happen: one third of earth's population to be killed.

On the other hand, when will the sixth angel pour out his vial or bowl? That will happen late in the last half of the 70th week.

In other words, God can and did use the River Euphrates twice, once for a trumpet judgment and again for a bowl judgment. I have no revelation as to why this river is so important. I can only guess because all those from the 'stan nations of the East must cross this river to get to Israel.

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

                                       Revelation’s Judgments

Rev 16:10- And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Rev 9:1 & 2- And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev 9:5- …the torment of a scorpion  Rev 9:10- …their power...hurt men

 

Rev 16:8 & 9- And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire

Rev 8:12- And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

The darkness is easily explained without imagining they are the same event told twice. Again, all the trumpets will be sounded in the first half of the week. Some of them are one-third judgment, while the corresponding bowl is complete judgment—proof they cannot be the same event.

Verse 9:2 above: apparently there are going to be billions of this stinging locusts: enough to block the sunlight. I was down wind of Mt. Saint Helens when she blew her top. I got dark as night around noon or a little before. We had no idea what was happening. 

Same with the sun. For the 4th trumpet, sounded sometime inside  the first half of the week, God shows the world that He can control the sun. This comes as a warning. At the bowl, the warning was not headed, people did not repent or give God glory, so God cranks up the heat of the sun to scorch people. These are two different events separated by months of time.

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

                                       Revelation’s Judgments

 

Rev 16:4- And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood

Rev 8:10- And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

 

Rev 16:3- And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Rev 8:8- And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

 

Rev 16:2- And the first angel went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image

Rev 8:7- The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up

For the 3rd trumpet, sounding in the first half of the week, one third of the rivers are poisoned—probably from nuclear fallout. I find it very interesting that Chernobyl in Russian and Ukraine language means wormwood. I believe God was giving us a hint. Did you know? Someone erected a statue of an angels sounding a trumpet at Chernobyl. If you search google, you can find pictures. It seems many got this hint.

AGain with the seas, the trumpet brings one third destruction or hurt, while the bowl brings complete destruction. These are two very different judgments that will come some distance apart in time.

I find John was very careful with his chronology.

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Uriah said:

TRUMPETS 

Rev 11:15- And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:19- And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 VIALS

 

Rev 16:17- And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. Rev

16:18- And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Rev 16:20- And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Rev 16:21- And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

Not strictly linear.

The 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT or division point of the week.
The 7th vial ENDS the week.

Two very different events separated by 3 1/2 years.

Did you notice in verse 11:19 that the lightnings, voices thunderings, an earthquake were INSIDE the temple? It was a VISION so these things were as PROPHECIES of future events. God is not going to cause hail in His throne room.

This is how I read these verses.

I believe John was VERY linear.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Paul was a Pharisee and the reference to scriptures is the Tora and the Psalms and the prophets.   

That's all he included in the scriptures that how he argued the Gospel from those scriptures the Tora the Psalms and the Prophets. 

And nothing else..,not the revelation not the epistles from Peter, and John and not from the Gospels which he never read anyone of the above....

He said they are good for teaching. 

He did not say to follow them...to learn something from them....but not to follow them...he caution the people not to follow to give them a blind reading...

God and Jesus said some things which are against the rules are not possible to be done...the rules need to be follow.  

If someone believes in Jesus  Christ....Jesus will not take him before he dies...The believer stands together with the Saved but he will be counted amongs the saved when at the time of his death he is found with the faith of Jesus Christ in his heart...

This is the final judgment...will he be found with the faith of Jesus Christ in his heart? 

God has given the judgment to his Son and the rules of judgment are set and God will not interfere...

God can do many things but not out of the discipline that is set before hand....

If what you said it is truth in the way you have put as an ego display....JESUS WOULD NEVER SAY 

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY BUT TO DRINK THIS CUP...

THIS CAN ONLY BE DONE by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God. the blood of the new Covenant must be shed by the blood of the Lamb and then die...the Atonement was made after the Lamb died...and never before. 

Everyone must die first before his day of Judgment. 

Everyone must be judged while in the body and imediatly after he dies when he is out of the body.

No one can be found in his Heavenly body before his Judgment day...

He must be Judge as he is without his physical body and without his Heavenly body...in case of a believer. 

And while his  body is decaying on earth if it was not burned or eaten by the beasts of the field of the birds of prey...

And we have cannibalism...

The one who has no legs he cannot say that I will never kneel down before Jesus Christ because this is not possible...God will give him legs...this is possible with God,..

Do you have something against Paul? God used Him to write a good portion of the New Testament - which is not part of the scriptures. His epistles are for us Gentiles. James wrote to the Jews. I suspect Peter did also. What Paul wrote good for our doctrine, as Gentile believers.

Jesus never spoke of the rapture of the church, except once, in John 14. He never mentioned it in his end time discourse, simply because at that time the Gentile church of today was still a MYSTERY hidden in the Father.

God waited to see if Israel (the Sanhedrin) would accept Jesus as their Messiah. He waited a sufficient time, then put blindness in part on the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles. The Jewish church died out and the Gentile church grew to where it is today.

Peter's gospel to the Jews was, "Jesus is your messiah? Believe in Him and be saved."

Paul's gospel to the Gentiles was to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of the Christ and you will be saved.

Galatians 2:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8  (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

We own our salvation to Paul! I thank God He chose to send Paul to the Gentiles. Where would the Gentiles be if Paul had refused?

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

That was ME before I was born again. I was without Christ, I was an alien from the covenants given to Israel, I was without hope due to sin, and was without God. 

Thank GOD Jesus died for me, took my punishment of death upon Himself! Thank God, due to Paul, I got to hear the gospel!

Can you find even one verse in Jesus' end time discourse that is pointed to the Gentiles?

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Keturah 123 said:

Amen.

Guess I'll do this since my quota on reactions is limited........

May I inquire why the limitations?

Hi Keturah,

The limitations are only in the welcome thread so as to find out who is real or just a scammer. 

You are now fine to post on all the threads you see.

All the best, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think I disagree on one point. When Jesus said "no man knows the day nor the hour, in context that was His Armageddon coming. I will NOT come on the 1260th day from the abomination. He will remain in heaven for the marriage and supper - so for an unknown time.

I agree there are two more comings, first FOR His bride, then about seven years later WITH His bride.

Where do you see the start of the Day of the Lord in relation to the rapture?

Hi iamlamd,

Let`s see who the Lord says is coming with Him.

When Jesus was on earth the disciples asked Him to tell them about what would happen to Israel & the nations at the end of this age. Jesus told them quite clearly about the tribulation & persecution Israel would endure but that He would come again with His mighty angels to deliver Israel & judge the nations of the world.  

 

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

These Holy angels are the army who come with Jesus when he brings vengeance upon the ungodly.

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

These are two different events separated by months of time.

 

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I find John was very careful with his chronology.

 

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I believe John was VERY linear.

I know. As I see it those, "Revelation's Judgments"  are intended to show otherwise. Do the mountains and islands flee away twice? The sea becomes like blood twice? 

At the sixth seal the sky is torn away revealing the new heaven, the mountains and islands flee away showing the new Earth is rapidly taking form. 

 

The people are terrified and want to hide from the FACE of the one sitting on the throne! It says it is the GREAT DAY of His wrath!

 

Is that linear? Shouldn't these things be at the END?

Edited February 1, 2023 by Uriah

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

 

I know. As I see it those, "Revelation's Judgments"  are intended to show otherwise. Do the mountains and islands flee away twice? The sea becomes like blood twice? 

At the sixth seal the sky is torn away revealing the new heaven, the mountains and islands flee away showing the new Earth is rapidly taking form. 

 

 

The people are terrified and want to hide from the FACE of the one sitting on the throne! It says it is the GREAT DAY of His wrath!

 

 

Is that linear? Shouldn't these things be at the END?

Quote

Do the mountains and islands flee away twice?

No, the first time they move out of their place. Did you know that the earthquake that caused the deadly tsunamis in Japan moved every mountain out of its place? It move the rotation axis of the earth by a few inches, which moved everything on earth "out of its place."

On the final day of this age, and the last day of the 70th week, that earthquake will be so violent it will shake the mountains down into the earth. They will be seen no more.

Quote

The sea becomes like blood twice? 

Just read what is written. The first time—I like to say as a warning—God turns 1/3 of the seas into blood. But later in the week, after the Kingdoms of the world have been given to Jesus and HE can control everything that will happen, He turns all the seas to blood. Is this going to be worldwide? I don't know.

Quote

At the sixth seal the sky is torn away revealing the new heaven,  the mountains and islands flee away

You are ad libbing. That is not what John wrote.

 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

John never mentioned what was revealed AFTER the sky is rolled up. Perhaps HEAVEN is seen. It is only a guess. 

WHEN will this earth and heaven disappear and a NEW heaven and earth appear? That would be AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ, and just before the great, white throne judgment. 

The 6th seal is the START of the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath. That Day will probably continue through the millennial reign.