Unclean Spirits, Divine Healing and Modern Medicine

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

No it hasn't.

It has.   See above.   You should know that many creationist groups now admit the fact of speciation.

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Experiments designed to force evolution in fruit lies proved that fruit flies remain, s does everything else, as it was.  Adaptation happens.  It results in a net loss of information. 

The above case was in nature.   And you've confused adaptation with evolution.   Not all adaptation is evolution, and not all evolution is adaptation.  But every new mutation adds information to the population genome.  Would you like me to show you the numbers for a simple case?

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Evolution proponents themselves say that evolution takes time. 

It takes only one generation.   You were misled on that.  Remember what biological evolution is.   "A change in allele frequency in a population over time."  

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Given enough time complexity will arise from discord. 

Darwin's great discovery was that it wasn't random or "from discord."    That's another major misconception people have about it.

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Teaching contrary to that is heresy.

In fact, most of the world's Christians acknowledge that evolution is consistent with God's creation.   Denying that isn't "heresy"; God doesn't care if you don't like the way He did things.   YE creationists are no less Christian than the rest of us, unless they make an idol of creationism, and insist one must believe that new doctrine to be a Christian.

 

[The Barbarian]

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

It results in a net loss of information.  Increasing complexity has not been and cannot be observed. 

No, that's wrong.   Every new mutation in a population adds information.    Would you like me to show you the numbers for a simple case of that?

Dr. Barry Hall was studying a culture of bacteria, and the culture evolved a new enzyme system and then evolved a regulator so that the enzyme was only produced when lactose was present.   This new, irreducibly complex system surprised Dr. Hall, who was not looking for that to happen.

Would you like to learn more about how it did evolve?

 

 

 

[believeinHim]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:01 PM, SavedOnebyGrace said:

Modern medicine wasn't available at that time. Jesus healed men, women and children for those that had faith. Faith like that is wanting among Christians today. God can use our infirmities to bring us back to Him and build up our faith. Cancer may be the only way some folks will turn to Jesus. So it may be a good thing, but I will still take medicine as needed.

Good post Mr. M.

I love your profile picture ! The Koala is my favorite animal ! {I have to take medications, or my life is under threat of devolving in to near death, if not homelessness first}, 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On 8/21/2023 at 5:31 PM, believeinHim said:

I love your profile picture ! The Koala is my favorite animal ! {I have to take medications, or my life is under threat of devolving in to near death, if not homelessness first}, 

I too have to take medications, but that doesn't mean you and I don't have enough faith. No one should put you down for taking meds.

[RV_Wizard]

On 8/21/2023 at 11:32 AM, The Barbarian said:

No, that's wrong.   Every new mutation in a population adds information.    Would you like me to show you the numbers for a simple case of that?

Dr. Barry Hall was studying a culture of bacteria, and the culture evolved a new enzyme system and then evolved a regulator so that the enzyme was only produced when lactose was present.   This new, irreducibly complex system surprised Dr. Hall, who was not looking for that to happen.

Would you like to learn more about how it did evolve?

Bacteria are God's garbage disposal.  They adapt to consume what is present. It's how God designed them.  They don't evolve.  They remain bacteria.  A thousand years from now they will still be bacteria.  Dogs remain dogs.  Cats remain cats.  Man remains man.  We were made in the image of God on the sixth day of creation.  Jesus, who was there at the time, affirmed that from the beginning God created man and women.  He doesn't make mistakes.  Men are born men.  Women are born women.  Demons tell them lies.  There is no confusion in God's word.  

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Bacteria are God's garbage disposal.  They adapt to consume what is present. It's how God designed them.  They don't evolve. 

They've been directly observed to do so.   Remember what evolution is?   Change in allele frequency in a population over time.    Here's an interesting one:

In 1975, a team of Japanese scientists discovered a strain of bacterium, living in ponds containing waste water from a nylon factory, that could digest certain byproducts of nylon 6 manufacture, such as the linear dimer of 6-aminohexanoate. These substances are not known to have existed before the invention of nylon in 1935. It was initially named as Achromobacter guttatus.^[4]

Studies in 1977 revealed that the three enzymes that the bacteria were using to digest the byproducts were significantly different from any other enzymes produced by any other bacteria, and not effective on any material other than the manmade nylon byproducts.^[5]...

More importantly, the enzyme involved was produced by a mutation completely randomizing the original gene.^{[dubious – discuss]} Despite this, the new gene still had a novel, albeit weak, catalytic capacity. This is seen as a good example of how mutations easily can provide the raw material for evolution by natural selection.^{[17][18][19][20]}

A 1995 paper showed that scientists have also been able to induce another species of bacterium, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, to evolve the capability to break down the same nylon byproducts in a laboratory by forcing them to live in an environment with no other source of nutrients. The P. aeruginosa strain NK87 did not seem to use the same enzymes^{[dubious – discuss]} that had been utilized by the original KI72 strain.^[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

 

 

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

They've been directly observed to do so.   Remember what evolution is?   Change in allele frequency in a population over time.    Here's an interesting one:

In 1975, a team of Japanese scientists discovered a strain of bacterium, living in ponds containing waste water from a nylon factory, that could digest certain byproducts of nylon 6 manufacture, such as the linear dimer of 6-aminohexanoate. These substances are not known to have existed before the invention of nylon in 1935. It was initially named as Achromobacter guttatus.^[4]

Studies in 1977 revealed that the three enzymes that the bacteria were using to digest the byproducts were significantly different from any other enzymes produced by any other bacteria, and not effective on any material other than the manmade nylon byproducts.^[5]...

More importantly, the enzyme involved was produced by a mutation completely randomizing the original gene.^{[dubious – discuss]} Despite this, the new gene still had a novel, albeit weak, catalytic capacity. This is seen as a good example of how mutations easily can provide the raw material for evolution by natural selection.^{[17][18][19][20]}

A 1995 paper showed that scientists have also been able to induce another species of bacterium, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, to evolve the capability to break down the same nylon byproducts in a laboratory by forcing them to live in an environment with no other source of nutrients. The P. aeruginosa strain NK87 did not seem to use the same enzymes^{[dubious – discuss]} that had been utilized by the original KI72 strain.^[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

Shalom, The Barbarian.

We must agree to disagree. The problem, I believe, is simply this: Regardless how many changes in the allele population frequencies there may be, @RV_Wizard is still correct; the kind doesn't change, and some created beings, regardless how versatile, remain those kinds. It has NEVER been observed to be otherwise. One kind has NEVER become another kind.

Oh, and by the way, "species" are not "kinds." "Species" is a word assigned to the classification of plants and animals by Carl Linnaeus, but "kinds" is the classification given by YHWH God Himself.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Retrobyter
to add a thought

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:27 AM, FJK said:

Demonic possession, actual demonic possession, is rare

No, it's not rare at all.  When you see someone foaming at the mouth flopping around on the floor screaming... that's the obvious demon possession.

There are those in the world among us that are seemingly in their right minds but they are demon possessed and they are agents of satan being used to do his biding such as head of movie production companies, the folks leading planned parenthood, people like George Soros and other elites planning for one world government behind the scenes, etc, etc

These folks are satan's best work and his best agents because they can carry on a seemingly intelligent conversation but they are workers of darkness and have demons living in them feeding them information to carry out the dastardly deeds satan has assigned to them.

People like this are reprobate and the Lord is not reaching out to them or seeking to covert them to follow Jesus any longer.... if these folks were to get saved they would have to recover themselves from the snares of the devil - THEY would have to make a move towards the Lord to start the recovery process   

2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God perhaps would give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And some of these folks have learned to hate God and His people so much that they have blasphemed the Spirit of the Lord and it's no longer possible for them to get saved as they gone a bridge too far before the Lord.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 7:01 PM, SavedOnebyGrace said:

Cancer may be the only way some folks will turn to Jesus

So when praying for some wayward soul do you recommend that we pray... "Father in Jesus Name I'm asking you to get that boy a good 'ol case of rectal cancer to wake him up and bring him back to you.  Amen"

Seems like an odd thing to wish upon someone much less ask the Lord to strap some cancer on someone.

Can you point to any instructions or examples from God's Word where either He said to do this or some of His Apostles ask the Lord to make some one sick... to FORCE them to their knees to return to Him?

I'm thinking this is just the wisdom of man speaking and it's not of God at all, but if you have some scripture to back this up I'd really like to see where God's Word teaches this.



 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Stan Murff

[FJK]

6 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

No, it's not rare at all.  When you see someone foaming at the mouth flopping around on the floor screaming... that's the obvious demon possession.

I've lived a long life and known many, many people and have never seen that happen except once in a severely epileptic man.

If you look only for demonic possession you end up overlooking demonic influence which is where the true work of evil is being done and which is far more prevalent and increasing dramatically as the Church has moved away from teaching against it.  The devil is quite clever in that regard and doesn't like to reveal himself overtly as he does his work.

The way I see it.

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

11 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

So when praying for some wayward soul do you recommend that we pray... "Father in Jesus Name I'm asking you to get that boy a good 'ol case of rectal cancer to wake him up and bring him back to you.  Amen"

Seems like an odd thing to wish upon someone much less ask the Lord to strap some cancer on someone.

Can you point to any instructions or examples from God's Word where either He said to do this or some of His Apostles ask the Lord to make some one sick... to FORCE them to their knees to return to Him?

I'm thinking this is just the wisdom of man speaking and it's not of God at all, but if you have some scripture to back this up I'd really like to see where God's Word teaches this.

You have twisted my words for your own edification. May God's will be done.