R. Hartono Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Selah7 said: God is the only One who can create a soul. Period. How can a single cloned cell in your body be created as another soul. What if a hundred cells in your body are cloned and then God is forced to create another one hundred soul ? @Who me @Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, R. Hartono said: How can a single cloned cell in your body be created as another soul. What if a hundred cells in your body are cloned and then God is forced to create another one hundred soul ? @Who me @Neighbor Uhhhh…. God can’t be forced to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2023 We need to remember that Satan has always wanted to be God. This cloning thing is just another attempt at it. These cloners are trying to play God and make no mistake about it, God does not like it. They better watch out is all I can say. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,380 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,361 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, R. Hartono said: How can a single cloned cell in your body be created as another soul. Cloning does not stimulate somatic (normal adult) cells to reproduce. The process of cloning requires a fertilized egg as a starting point. After conception has occurred (either naturally or artificially) the cloning scientist would have to subsequently tweak or replace the DNA (from a somatic cell) to make a clone. A person becomes a human soul at the point of conception (i.e. before any DNA manipulation has occurred). 2 hours ago, R. Hartono said: What if a hundred cells in your body are cloned and then God is forced to create another one hundred soul ? New humans can be (naturally or artificially) generated by fertilizing a human egg cell with a human sperm cell. That is the God-designed process of making a human soul. Artificial fertilization is no more 'forcing' God, than is fertilization through sexual intercourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, R. Hartono said: How can a single cloned cell in your body be created as another soul. The soul is not made of the physical cloned cell, nor controlled by the clone DNA which is physical. But the soul is spiritual in its being. So, the clone cell is not the soul, but the spiritual soul lives within the physical clone cell, and then in the later body of the clone. However, in my opinion, the spirit of the clone's soul comes from whoever provided the cloned cell, and maybe also from whoever gave the empty egg cell which would receive the cloned person's DNA. So then, yes the clone will be an identical twin of whoever provided the DNA. Their bodies will be identical. But identical twins are known for not having identical personalities. This can help to support that the personality is not decided by a person's DNA. And therefore the personality of the soul could be spiritual. After all, personality includes preferences and desires which are of your heart, and your heart is spiritual, right? And yes identical twins develop very different preferences and interests and ways of their hearts and therefore their spiritual personalities! And so . . . let's say a five year old girl gets killed and mom and dad rescue one of her cells and clone it. Oh, they would so love to have their sweet little girl again! But that DNA can not guarantee how her personality will turn out. She will be younger than others in the family, and have different friends in a later school arrangement. As the baby in the family the clone might grow up spoiled and feeling entitled, when as the oldest she perhaps learned responsibility and valued communicating and sharing. And imagine having an older sister who dies and then you have a baby sister who is outwardly identical to her but who is not acting like her, at all. And you are included in bringing her up; now you will be influencing her while you are the older one. What I mean, then, is yes a human clone can have a spiritual soul and developing personality. I kind of think the spiritual part will come with the DNA of the cloned person, and no spiritual part would come with the empty egg receiving the DNA. But then the soul will develop in spiritual interacting with the people bringing up the clone. And this will be so different than how the cloned person was brought up, so they will be different . . . each personality quite unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tristen said: Cloning does not stimulate somatic (normal adult) cells to reproduce. The process of cloning requires a fertilized egg as a starting point. After conception has occurred (either naturally or artificially) the cloning scientist would have to subsequently tweak or replace the DNA (from a somatic cell) to make a clone. A person becomes a human soul at the point of conception (i.e. before any DNA manipulation has occurred). New humans can be (naturally or artificially) generated by fertilizing a human egg cell with a human sperm cell. That is the God-designed process of making a human soul. Artificial fertilization is no more 'forcing' God, than is fertilization through sexual intercourse. But do you think God wants man messing around with His perfect plan of creation? Does He need our help? I don’t think so. There’s absolutely no way that man can design his own salvation or eternity. This cloning junk sounds like a modern Tower of Babel, doesn’t it? God will not tolerate it. Trying to create an identical life (a cloned copy) to what He has created is demonic. Artificial DNA is unnatural and again, God doesn’t like it. Remember in the days of Noah? The hybrids (Nephillum)? Was God angry? Indeed He was: Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." - Genesis 6:5-7 (NKJV) "Woe to him who strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth! Shall the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?' Or shall your handiwork say, 'He has no hands'? Woe to him who says to his father, 'What are you begetting?' Or to the woman, 'What have you brought forth?' " Thus says the LORD, The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons; And concerning the work of My hands, you command Me. I have made the earth, And created man on it. I—My hands—stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded. - Isaiah 45:9-12 (NKJV) Edited February 8, 2023 by Selah7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tristen said: Cloning does not stimulate somatic (normal adult) cells to reproduce. The process of cloning requires a fertilized egg as a starting point. After conception has occurred (either naturally or artificially) the cloning scientist would have to subsequently tweak or replace the DNA (from a somatic cell) to make a clone. A person becomes a human soul at the point of conception (i.e. before any DNA manipulation has occurred). New humans can be (naturally or artificially) generated by fertilizing a human egg cell with a human sperm cell. That is the God-designed process of making a human soul. Artificial fertilization is no more 'forcing' God, than is fertilization through sexual intercourse. How can a soul is formed after the nucleus DNA is removed and replaced by somebody's DNA ? Its totally different with parental zygote DNA. A zygote has its DNA to become human, with the removal of its DNA and insertion of cloned DNA it becomes different human. Edited February 9, 2023 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted February 9, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 395 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2023 Cloning is only a process to produce a vehicle for the soul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted February 9, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,380 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,361 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2023 11 hours ago, Selah7 said: But do you think God wants man messing around with His perfect plan of creation? Does He need our help? I don’t think so. There’s absolutely no way that man can design his own salvation or eternity. This cloning junk sounds like a modern Tower of Babel, doesn’t it? God will not tolerate it Hey Selah7, My response was addressing what I consider to be an interesting hypothetical about whether or not a human clone would have a soul. My answer is that, since all cloning requires a fertilized egg as a starting point, and since a human life (including the soul) starts at conception, the clone would have the life/soul they received at conception. The "cloning" part is simply an exchange of physical instructions (information/DNA). I don't think it is plausible to actually clone a human. Given the catastrophic statistics for animal cloning, it would certainly be unethical to try human cloning using current knowledge. 12 hours ago, Selah7 said: Trying to create an identical life (a cloned copy) to what He has created is demonic To continue with the hypothetical thought experiment, the clone would strictly only be "identical" in the physical sense. The donor and clone would be completely different people - as is the case with "identical" twins - who share the same DNA. 12 hours ago, Selah7 said: Artificial DNA is unnatural and again, God doesn’t like it. Anything which is "artificial" is, by definition, "unnatural". I don't think God has any inherent moral issue with things being "artificial". At its core, DNA is just chemicals. "Artificial DNA" (DNA constructed by "artificial", man-made processes) has many legitimate uses in science and medical research. I don't think God takes any issue with the existence or use of "artificial DNA" in general. However, DNA taken from a donor cell (to be used in cloning) is natural (naturally generated) DNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted February 9, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,380 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,361 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 hours ago, R. Hartono said: How can a soul is formed after the nucleus DNA is removed and replaced by somebody's DNA ? Its totally different with parental zygote DNA. I'm saying that the fertilized egg already has a soul - before the DNA has been removed. 6 hours ago, R. Hartono said: A zygote has its DNA to become human, with the removal of its DNA and insertion of cloned DNA it becomes different human. I think the opposite implication is true. A cloned human would retain the same soul they 'attained' at conception. It is their physical body that will be "different" as the result of the DNA exchange. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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