Berean Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 86 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/14/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1960 Share Posted February 20, 2023 A hypothetical situation. "John" was subjected to various indignities and insults from public servants from the city and county for no reason other than he was a soft target. Later, John planted a church with a building built for holding worship services soon after. With impending local and national elections drawing near John was approached by public officials and asked it the church could be used to where people can come and vote, in other words, a polling place. Because John is a strong proponent of separation of church and state, and because of the insults suffered by public officials in the past, his mind is to tell them in so many words No. If John were to give a reason, he would say that he doesn't want any of his people to be exposed to such Machiavellian arrogance as he was. Would he be right or wrong to refuse to have his church used as requested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) Voting can be good. So I would say you could use a place of worship for voting. But a lot of places of worship that I have seen would not be well designed for voting. Usually a large open level room works best; but worship places can have a lot of seats and pews and can be tilted. A flat floor is better. And this guy worries about separating the church from voting. That is overdoing it, misinterpretation, maybe so he can make himself some sort of religious expert over, and separate from others . . . I suspect. . . using made-up rules that can be mainly for having control of other people. Of course, I myself can try to be the greatest expert and be swift to criticize. And in case he has an ax to grind against ones who treated him badly, I would not let evil people have power over me to get me to act out of grudges and unforgiveness. As for protecting his people from foolish ones who do not know how to love > he would need to close his church and use the building for firewood. Edited February 21, 2023 by com7fy8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted February 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,103 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2023 The "axe to grind" is the issue, my friend. We who have been forgiven of much are called upon to forgive others according to the same measure. In spite of my lack of involvement with the political process, I see no harm in permitting the use of any building as a polling location. A building is just that --- a building --- for the Lord does not dwell in structures raised by human hands. Many church buildings are ideally situated to serve as a polling location so if I were "John," I would gladly give my consent to the authorities. Bury hatchets. Be merciful. Be vigilant so that we won't be mastered by this flesh which is perishing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted February 21, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2023 The anger he has to the officials isnt good and he should work on his anger. However, Matthew 21 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God and cast out all those who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money-changers, and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 And He said to them, It is written, "My house shall be called the house of prayer"; but you have made it a den of thieves. Would voting be something similar? My conscious says dont have them vote in the church, for that reason, and not because john is angry at govt officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted February 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,264 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2023 A church should be part of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 21, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 21, 2023 He should forgive the officials, first and foremost...but he also should say no to being a poling place unless there is absolutely no other place to go. He should base his decision on what's within his morals and what's best for the church, not on his past history with the officials. Seems to me if churches sent allowed to get into politics, then politics need to stay out of the church. If he believes in this "separation" of church and state then he should stand by that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted February 21, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,367 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,340 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2023 "separation of church and state" may be a valid, personal reason. Offense and unforgiveness because of past behaviors is not a reason that is consistent with Christian ideals. Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. John 15:18-19 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 1 Peter 4:12-16 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted February 22, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,400 Content Per Day: 12.14 Reputation: 3,269 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 2/20/2023 at 7:44 PM, ayin jade said: The anger he has to the officials isnt good and he should work on his anger. However, Matthew 21 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God and cast out all those who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money-changers, and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 And He said to them, It is written, "My house shall be called the house of prayer"; but you have made it a den of thieves. Would voting be something similar? My conscious says dont have them vote in the church, for that reason, and not because john is angry at govt officials. @ayin jade I guess the bottom line is to make sure one's love for the Lord and fellow Christians and fellow human beings is greater than any understandable righteous indignation for sin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockson Posted February 25, 2023 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2023 As for me I'd allow it. Why might argue those particular politicians don't deserve a favor but it goes beyond just what a few individuals deserve. You're also sending out a signal to the greater community where some might conclude aren't they nice for being a part of helping establish what we all need.....a municipal government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 25, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,595 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,058 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 25, 2023 On 2/20/2023 at 5:34 PM, Berean said: Would he be right or wrong to refuse to have his church used as requested? Sorry, I don't know anything about the "his church", nor what it might be an appropriate for it. Guess whatever Hypothetical John wants to do with what is his is okay. My own Lord's church bodies teach love God love one another love your friends and your enemies, but that is a Christian concept instituted by My Lord and savior Yeshua. Matthew 5:44 NKJV "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you," If Hypothetical John was a Christian he would have his answer, though it seems to me if he was that Christian he would not have a church of his own in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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