Corruptors and their families must be put to death.

[R. Hartono]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua 7&version=KJV 

Joshua arrested Achan and his family and then stoned them to death. Because Achan stole and their families probably knew and enjoy the plunder hidden in their home.

There are horrendous corruptors in every nation of the world who pretend to be good and masking their face with religion and charity. Will God let their family escape after enjoying all the plunder, Imho their family is also responsible for not reporting their corruption. 

Thou shall not steal remember that. We do not live in virtual reality. Nations and Christians need Law and guns to keep order and protect citizens and teach lessons of good behaviour not to steal. Even so, all jails in this nation are overloaded.

Or are we supposed to hug them and say "Your sins are forgiven, Jesus loves you"....resisting by all means the punishment of all crimes in the name of love. Do you love innocent citizens or protect them from crimes by all means ? 

What say you.

Edited March 16, 2023 by R. Hartono

[ayin jade]

I say the new testament tells us to be merciful. To love our enemies. 

[Jayne]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua 7&version=KJV 

Joshua arrested Achan and his family and then stoned them to death. Because Achan stole and their families probably knew and enjoy the plunder hidden in their home.

There are horrendous corruptors in every nation of the world who pretend to be good and masking their face with religion and charity. Will God let their family escape after enjoying all the plunder, Imho their family is also responsible for not reporting their corruption. 

What say you.

What say I?

There was no "enjoying all the plunder".  Achan stole a robe from Babylon, 200 silver coins, and a gold bar weighing about a pound.

He said that, "I wanted them so much that I had to have them."  And what did he do with it?  He buried under his tent.  What GOOD did he think this was going to do - hiding the treasure, burying it under his tent?

Did he think God would not know?

And his comment that he HAD to have them?  How many people do that today with porn, food, alcohol, another person's spouse, drugs, and more.  We HAVE to have it.

No we don't.  And Achan didn't either.

There was no enjoyment of the plunder.  He knew he did wrong while he was taking those things.  That's why he hid them as soon as possible.

And he and his family and his animals paid the ultimate price for his "HAVING" to have those things.

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I say the new testament tells us to be merciful. To love our enemies. 

Nations have Law to obey, so far only the chicom executed corruptors and jail their families, thats why China can grow to be a wealthy nations but still corruptions are many in china, thieves always try to steal. 

To love our enemies doesnt mean corruptors are exempted from law. If they dare to steal although the law gives death sentence then they challenge death blatantly and must be punished by Law. 

If we just forgive all crimes what Will become of nations ? Total riot and disorder and poverty. So God via Joshua has given an example. 

@Marathoner 

@OneLight 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by R. Hartono

[OneLight]

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua 7&version=KJV 

Joshua arrested Achan and his family and then stoned them to death. Because Achan stole and their families probably knew and enjoy the plunder hidden in their home.

There are horrendous corruptors in every nation of the world who pretend to be good and masking their face with religion and charity. Will God let their family escape after enjoying all the plunder, Imho their family is also responsible for not reporting their corruption. 

What say you.

 

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Nations have Law to obey, so far only the chicom executed corruptors and jail their families, thats why China can grow to be a wealthy nations but still corruptions are many in china, thieves always try to steal. 

To love our enemies doesnt mean corruptors are exempted to law. If they dare to steal although the law gives death sentence then they challenge death blatantly and must be punished by Law. 

If we just forgive all crimes what Will become of nations ? Total riot and disorder.

The first scripture that came to mind is John 8:2-11

Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them.  Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act.  Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?”  This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”  And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.  Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.  When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Now I ask, who are we to be like, Joshua or Jesus?

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Nations have Law to obey, so far only the chicom executed corruptors and jail their families, thats why China can grow to be a wealthy nations but still corruptions are many in china, thieves always try to steal. 

To love our enemies doesnt mean corruptors are exempted to law. If they dare to steal although the law gives death sentence then they challenge death blatantly and must be punished by Law. 

If we just forgive all crimes what Will become of nations ? Total riot and disorder.

Let the dead bury their dead, and the worldly tend to worldly affairs. As for us, we are not citizens of an earthly nation. We are here as foreigners and strangers. Don't you know? 

The Lord commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves. He gave us a new commandment: to love one another as He loves us. Love our enemies, never returning evil for evil. You would do well to read the scriptures, my friend. 

[OneLight]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Nations have Law to obey, so far only the chicom executed corruptors and jail their families, thats why China can grow to be a wealthy nations but still corruptions are many in china, thieves always try to steal. 

To love our enemies doesnt mean corruptors are exempted from law. If they dare to steal although the law gives death sentence then they challenge death blatantly and must be punished by Law. 

If we just forgive all crimes what Will become of nations ? Total riot and disorder and poverty. So God via Joshua has given an example. 

@Marathoner 

@OneLight 

 

 

Sounds like you value the world more than scripture.  I sure hope that is not true.

This world will become much darker.  Crime will be prevalent and sin will abound.  That's prophecy.  Nothing we can do will stop it, including removing all the corrupt people as there will always be more to take their place.  You are fighting a losing battle. 

As for countries laws, would you of stood beside people like Hitler, following through with his laws?  If all mans laws lined up with Gods, then I would agree, but many do not.  Take a side and stand firm and strong with your choice as God spits out lukewarm people.  We either stand with Him or against Him, there is no middle ground.

[R. Hartono]

5 hours ago, OneLight said:

Sounds like you value the world more than scripture.  I sure hope that is not true.

This world will become much darker.  Crime will be prevalent and sin will abound.  That's prophecy.  Nothing we can do will stop it, including removing all the corrupt people as there will always be more to take their place.  You are fighting a losing battle. 

As for countries laws, would you of stood beside people like Hitler, following through with his laws?  If all mans laws lined up with Gods, then I would agree, but many do not.  Take a side and stand firm and strong with your choice as God spits out lukewarm people.  We either stand with Him or against Him, there is no middle ground.

Joshua was commanded by Father, it has got nothing to do with Hitler.

[Marathoner]

26 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

Joshua was commanded by Father, it has got nothing to do with Hitler.

What has the Lord commanded us to do, then?

You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may certainly rebuke your neighbor, but you are not to incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance, nor hold any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. (Leviticus 19:17-18 NASB)

One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:28-31 NASB)

"I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all people will know that you are My disciples: if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35 NASB)

Don't hate. Do not take vengeance, nor hold a grudge. Love your neighbor as yourself. 

As for the identity of our enemies, @R. Hartono? 

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:10-12 NASB)

Men and women aren't our enemies. Our enemies are spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. The Old Covenant is not naturally discerned for the natural man is at enmity with the Spirit of God. What Joshua and the children did in the promised land was both a shadow and a type of our struggle against spiritual forces. Don't twist scripture to conform to hatred and a desire for vengeance.

[R. Hartono]

50 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

What has the Lord commanded us to do, then?

You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may certainly rebuke your neighbor, but you are not to incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance, nor hold any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. (Leviticus 19:17-18 NASB)

One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:28-31 NASB)

"I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all people will know that you are My disciples: if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35 NASB)

Don't hate. Do not take vengeance, nor hold a grudge. Love your neighbor as yourself. 

As for the identity of our enemies, @R. Hartono? 

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:10-12 NASB)

Men and women aren't our enemies. Our enemies are spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. The Old Covenant is not naturally discerned for the natural man is at enmity with the Spirit of God. What Joshua and the children did in the promised land was both a shadow and a type of our struggle against spiritual forces. Don't twist scripture to conform to hatred and a desire for vengeance.

Its about nations' law against corruption to protect all citizens including you the Christians. Citizens need to obey the Law, Thou shalt not steal remember that. Thank God this country punishes corruptors in jail otherwise what will happen with such attitude like yours. You need to protect other innocent citizens including Christians,  don't speak about love as if the people who punish corruptors don't have love and so wicked. 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by R. Hartono