Human-Animal Hybrids

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

In the 1960s, Russian scientists were put to work trying to find a way to breed super soldiers.    Total flop.   But this was partially due to Stalin's outlawing Mendelian genetics and Darwinism, in a massive purge of science from which Russian biology is still trying to repair.   

China might indeed be thinking along the same lines, but with much better chances of succeeding.   Still, things aren't as simple as we thought they might be a few decades ago.   In 1970, Alvin Toffler wrote Future Shock, predicting among other things, the incipient ability of humankind to alter their own genetic characteristics.    We're still stumbling around, just on the margin of even repairing genetic disorders.

The other issue is that most genetic alterations that would make a better soldier would make a better human generally.    Assuming that it didn't mess up something else in the body.    One of the issues is that everything is connected to everything else and it's hard to predict what the consequences of altering specific DNA or adding new DNA might be

What is the definition that defines us as being 100% human as created?

For instance, geneticists insert or modify our genetics and DNA with ape DNA to make humans stronger. How much more would our genetic code be alike? How much modification would it take to be less than 100% human?

I have considered the Mark of the Beast disqualification (an unpardonable sin) for Salvation. Jesus died for humanity; how would hybrids fit in?

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

What is the definition that defines us as being 100% human as created?

 

"After it's kind", vs. in the image of God

Genesis 1:

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,

and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters

brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind:

and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas,

and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle,

and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind,

and every thing that creeps upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion

over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth,

and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,

and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,

and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Mr. M
added text

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

"After it's kind", vs. in the image of God

Genesis 1:

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,

and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters

brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind:

and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas,

and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle,

and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind,

and every thing that creeps upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion

over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth,

and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,

and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,

and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

And Adam and Eve duplicated after their kind.

And so it goes….

[Mr. M]

5 minutes ago, Alive said:

And Adam and Eve duplicated after their kind.

And so it goes….

And so it did, by heredity.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years,

and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

What is the definition that defines us as being 100% human as created?

It's not genetics, that's for sure.   Being a living soul in the image of God, that's it.   And the "image" is not a physical one or a genetic one.  As Jesus tells us, God is a spirit and a spirit has no body.

 

 

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

For instance, geneticists insert or modify our genetics and DNA with ape DNA to make humans stronger.

No, they don't.  And it would be just as likely to make us weaker.

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have considered the Mark of the Beast disqualification (an unpardonable sin) for Salvation. Jesus died for humanity; how would hybrids fit in?

We are hybrids.  Almost all of us have DNA of at least one other human subspecies.   

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

No, they don't.  And it would be just as likely to make us weaker.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

It would absolutely make one more vulnerable! One would become more susceptible to things to which one currently has some immunity.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

We are hybrids.  Almost all of us have DNA of at least one other human subspecies.   

No, we're NOT! This is the MAJOR DYSFUNCTION of the theory of Evolution when it comes to genetics! We were created in the IMAGE OF GOD! How in the world could there be "human subspecies?!" There's NO SUCH THING! All we REALLY have are misread fossil evidence! When people are DETERMINED to find the ridiculous, you can be ASSURED they WILL find it! (Notice that I did NOT use the word "shall" which just talks about the future tense; "to WILL" is an act of CHOICE!)

[Mr. M]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

It's not genetics, that's for sure.   Being a living soul in the image of God, that's it.   And the "image" is not a physical one or a genetic one.  As Jesus tells us, God is a spirit and a spirit has no body.

 

 

I still stand by my statement made just ahead of your post, that Gen 5:3 expresses heredity.

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

It's not genetics, that's for sure.   Being a living soul in the image of God, that's it.   And the "image" is not a physical one or a genetic one.  As Jesus tells us, God is a spirit and a spirit has no body.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

Sorry, bro', but your terminology has clouded your thinking. A "spirit" is absolutely NOT the "immaterial part of a human being!" That's a FICTION invented in the DARK AGES! Some people say "soul" in lieu of using the word "spirit," but again, it's the SAME PROBLEM! There's NO SUCH THING as an "immaterial part of a person!"

Doctors have been trying for YEARS to determine when the "soul (or spirit) leaves the body," even to the point of trying to detect SOMETHING leaving the body at the moment of death! They have NEVER been successful, by observation or by instrument, because there's NOTHING that leaves (except air from his or her lungs)!

This is why I believe that it is SO IMPORTANT for a person to understand what a "soul" truly is! To have this knowledge can help people, particularly atheists and agnostics!

A "soul," the word translating the Hebrew word "nefesh," simply means "an air-breathing creature!" (And, by "creature," the one making the definition meant "a created being.")

Here's the Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary's entry in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

5315 nefesh (nephesh) נֶפֶשׁ (neh'-fesh). From naafash (naphash); properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Within this entry, everything past the colon-dash (: --) are all the ways that this one word was interpreted! However, the word is said to come from the verb "naafash":

5314 naafash (naphash) נָפַשׁ (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air):
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

It's really very simple: both words are spelled the same in Hebrew, but 5315 is a noun and 5314 is a verb. However, for children and foreigners learning Hebrew, the vowel pointing is added to show how the two words are used with different vowel sounds and inflection. The noun has the first syllable stressed, while the verb stressed the last syllable. The qamets (נָ, the symbol under the nun that looks like a small "T") has the "aw" sound as in the word "saw." The patach (פַ, the symbol under the fei that looks like a small hyphen) has the "a" sound as in the word "father." The segol (פֶ, the symbol under the fei that looks like a small triangle of dots) is the "e" sound as in the word "bed."

So, the noun form, nefesh, comes from the root verb form, naafash.
The noun for "one who breathes" comes from the verb meaning "to breathe!"

 

Then, there's the word translated as "spirit." It is the Hebrew word "ruwach":

7307 ruwach (ruach) רוּחַ (roo'-akh). From ruwach; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. A sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):
-- air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

It, too, stems from a verb:

7306 ruwach (ruach)  רוּחַ (roo-akh'). A primitive root; properly, to blow, i.e. Breathe; only (literally) to smell or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy):
-- accept, smell, X touch, make of quick understanding.

So, the noun form, ruwach with the accent on the first syllable, comes from the root verb, ruwach with the accent on the last syllable.
The noun for "wind" or "breath" comes from the verb meaning "to blow" or "to breathe."

Thus, when an "air-breathing person" gives up the "breath," that person is no longer an "air-breathing person!" He doesn't "leave as the breath"; he "EXPIRES!"

No one goes to Heaven when he or she dies. Peter had this to say about David on the first Pentecost after the Resurrection of our Master:

Acts 2:29-36 (KJV)

29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that  HE IS BOTH DEAD AND BURIED, AND HIS SEPULCHRE IS WITH US UNTO THIS DAY. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.34 For DAVID IS NOT ASCENDED INTO THE HEAVENS: but he saith himself,

"'The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool."' (Psalm 110:1) 

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

This occurred on the FIRST Pentecost after the death and burial and resurrection of our Master, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God; so, he said this AFTER our Lord was Resurrected! Peter did NOT "go to Heaven," and neither do we.

We are not instructed to anticipate "going to Heaven when we die"; we are instructed rather to anticipate the RESURRECTION of our bodies (us) and that we should live eternally thereafter! 

John said in the book of Revelation,

Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (Greek: ek tou thronou = "out of the throne") saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

We don't go to Heaven when we die; instead, that which has the descriptions of what people say are the descriptions of Heaven, the New Jerusalem, comes DOWN TO US! But FIRST, we must be resurrected as NEW BODIES!

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Sorry, bro', but your terminology has clouded your thinking. A "spirit" is absolutely NOT the "immaterial part of a human being!" That's a FICTION invented in the DARK AGES! Some people say "soul" in lieu of using the word "spirit," but again, it's the SAME PROBLEM! There's NO SUCH THING as an "immaterial part of a person!"

God says there is.  

Genesis 2:7  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I believe Him.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Doctors have been trying for YEARS to determine when the "soul (or spirit) leaves the body," even to the point of trying to detect SOMETHING leaving the body at the moment of death! They have NEVER been successful, by observation or by instrument, because there's NOTHING that leaves (except air from his or her lungs)!

Precisely because a soul is not material.    Science can only see the physical universe.   Man is different than the other animals because God directly gives man an immortal soul.  

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

We don't go to Heaven when we die;

Jesus says otherwise...

Luke 23: 42 And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom.  43 And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.