How is it you do not understand?

[Mr. M]

We can see this question directed towards the disciples, and speculate on their shortcomings.

We could also consider that having the Holy Spirit, the Church should come to a much fuller comprehension.

Mark 8:14 Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread, and they did not have more than one loaf with them in the boat. 

15 Then He charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.

16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread.

17 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, Why do you reason because you have no bread? 

Do you not yet perceive nor understand? Is your heart still hardened? 

18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember? 

19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments did you take up?

They said to Him, Twelve.

20 Also, when I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of fragments did you take up?

And they said, Seven.

21 So He said to them, How is it you do not understand?

The attention given to the fragments from each miracle meal has always drawn my attention, as the scriptures often reference the idea of a residue, late olives and grapes that cannot be harvested, but are left for the traveler, the poor, the stranger. I don't go searching for answers in commentaries, just meditating on each version of these events from the four Gospels, and simply suggest we address the question posed; with the possibility that it remains for us, the residue of His people to draw out of each other, the fullest possible understanding.

[Mr. M]

22 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

15 Then He charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.

Luke 12:1 In the meantime, when an innumerable multitude of people had gathered together,

so that they trampled one another, He began to say to His disciples first of all, 

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 

[FJK]

It's easy to hear the words instead of the message being given by them.

[Mr. M]

On 5/28/2023 at 9:05 AM, Mr. M said:

Do you not yet perceive nor understand? Is your heart still hardened? 

18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember? 

19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments did you take up?

They said to Him, Twelve.

The Lord first calls to their attention the first miracle of loaves and fishes.

Mark 6:

42 So they all ate and were filled. 

43 And they took up twelve baskets full of fragments and of the fish. 

44 Now those who had eaten the loaves were about five thousand men.

Now we come to a critical point in this narrative:

45 Immediately He made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side,

to Bethsaida, while He sent the multitude away.

The apostles did not depart willingly, but followed the Lord's direction.

Where were they being sent? The hometown of the fisherman; Andrew, Peter,

James and John. Instead, they face a contrary wind, and the Lord walks out

on the lake to meet them, and we are informed:

52 For they had not understood about the loaves, because their heart was hardened.

The city of Bethsaida is a focal point of this narrative, so let me interject this statement

the Lord made concerning them.

Matthew 11:

20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works

had been done, because they did not repent: 

21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which

were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon,

they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

The mighty work at Bethsaida was indeed noteworthy, and a bit tricky to find.

As already hinted, it involves the early calling of the disciples from there. I find

Luke is always a good place to find answers that arise when I am comparing 

to Matthew and Mark.

Luke 5:

1 So it was, as the multitude pressed about Him to hear the word of God,

that He stood by the Lake of Gennesaret, 

2 and saw two boats standing by the lake; but the fishermen had gone

from them and were washing their nets. 

3 Then He got into one of the boats, which was Simon’s, and asked him to put

out a little from the land. And He sat down and taught the multitudes from the boat.

4 When He had stopped speaking, He said to Simon, 

“Launch out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch.”

5 But Simon answered and said to Him, “Master, we have toiled all night and caught 

nothing; nevertheless at Your word I will let down the net.” 

6 And when they had done this, they caught a great number of fish,

and their net was breaking. 

7 So they signaled to their partners in the other boat to come and help them.

And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink. 

8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, 

“Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!”

9 For he and all who were with him were astonished

at the catch of fish which they had taken; 

10 and so also were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, who were partners

with Simon. And Jesus said to Simon, Do not be afraid. From now on you will catch men.

11 So when they had brought their boats to land, they forsook all and followed Him.

Note: Bethsaida means "house of fish (or fishermen?)"

A miracle that led four men to walk away from their family business on the very day

they brought in the most miraculous catch of fish, the people of their hometown

remained unimpressed by what they witnessed!

Edited May 31, 2023 by Mr. M
cosmetic

[Mr. M]

23 hours ago, Mr. M said:

18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember? 

19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments did you take up?

They said to Him, Twelve.

20 Also, when I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of fragments did you take up?

And they said, Seven.

21 So He said to them, How is it you do not understand?

We are invited here to compare the two miracles of feeding a multitude.

Yet, all we are given is some statistics. What took place between the two?

Like Luke, John does not bother to chronicle the second event as the first,

and what followed are the headline. 

John 6:

25 And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him,

“Rabbi, when did You come here?”

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me,

not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 

27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to

everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, 

because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, 

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

35 And Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall

never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said,

“I am the bread which came down from heaven.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying,

“How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 

57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father,

so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said,

“This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 

67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

[Mr. M]

They ran to meet Him!

Mark 6:30-36 Then the apostles gathered to Jesus and told Him all things, both what they had done and what they had taught. And He said to them, Come aside by yourselves to a deserted place and rest a while. For there were many coming and going, and they did not even have time to eat. So they departed to a deserted place in the boat by themselves. But the multitudes saw them departing, and many knew Him and ran there on foot from all the cities. They arrived before them and came together to Him. And Jesus, when He came out, saw a great multitude and was moved with compassion for them, because they were like sheep not having a shepherd. So He began to teach them many things. When the day was now far spent, His disciples came to Him and said, This is a deserted place, and already the hour is late. Send them away, that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy themselves bread; for they have nothing to eat.

37 But He answered and said to them, “You give them something to eat.”

[Mr. M]

On 5/28/2023 at 9:30 AM, Mr. M said:

Luke 12:1 In the meantime, when an innumerable multitude of people had gathered together,

so that they trampled one another, He began to say to His disciples first of all, 

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 

Hypocrisy is but a symptom of an unfaithful heart,

hardened by covetousness.

Luke 16:10-12 He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own?

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other,

or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

14 Now the Pharisees, who were covetous,

also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 

15 And He said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men,

but God knows your hearts.

For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

[Mr. M]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

This is a deserted place, and already the hour is late. Send them away, that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy themselves bread; for they have nothing to eat.

37 But He answered and said to them, “You give them something to eat.”

Where was this deserted place Luke?

Luke 9:10  And the apostles, when they had returned, told Him all that they had done. Then He took them and went aside privately into a deserted place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.

[Mr. M]

On 5/30/2023 at 7:38 AM, Mr. M said:

When the day was now far spent, His disciples came to Him and said, This is a deserted place, and already the hour is late. Send them away, that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy themselves bread; for they have nothing to eat.

37 But He answered and said to them, “You give them something to eat.”

 

On 5/28/2023 at 10:43 AM, Mr. M said:

Now we come to a critical point in this narrative:

45 Immediately He made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side,

to Bethsaida, while He sent the multitude away.

We see in v. 36, the disciples ask the Lord to send the crowd away. If v. 45, AFTER feeding them, the Lord first dismisses the apostles and sending THEM away. He has them board a boat for their hometown because of the hardness of their heart. Only then does he release the crowd. How can we pass on the opportunity to learn more from this word?

[G630] apolyo=send away, dismiss, release, "set at liberty", loose from captivity!

Matthew 18:27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion,

released him, and forgave him the debt.

Matthew 27:17 Therefore, when they had gathered together, Pilate said to them,

Whom do you want me to release to you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you

shall not be condemned. FORGIVE, and you will be FORGIVEN.

Luke 13:12 But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her,

Woman, you are LOOSED from your infirmity.

And now the Lord is releasing a crowd of people who He has just delivered from every sickness and disease, demon and unclean spirit, and he has 12 gift baskets, for according to law, you do not set someone at liberty empty handed.

Deuteronomy 15:

13 And when you send him away free from you,

you shall not let him go away empty-handed; 

14 you shall supply him liberally from your flock,

from your threshing floor, and from your wine press. 

From what the Lord your God has blessed you with,

you shall give to him. 

The contents of these 12 baskets are literally table scraps;

"broken pieces of bread and fish". So we can ask, "what manner

of person would accept this a departing gift?" Quick and easy 

answer would be "the poorest of the poor." I would have to

contend with such an answer. I have lived among the poor and

the homeless, and most of them are that way because they lack

sound insight into frugality and temperance. They are shockingly

wasteful and ungrateful. Many bring a spirit of entitlement toward

Christian charity, like they are doing them a favor. No, I have also

seen first hand in my home church, and even in my neighborhood

growing up around large Catholic families in Louisiana. The people 

who understand frugality are the people who know how to get the most

out of every opportunity; 'waste not, want not', just to meet every basic need.

This is the type of stewardship that the Lord honors, and the type of person

who "hungers and thirsts after righteousness". 5000 men, plus women 

and children fed, only 12 baskets to offer at the send off. And many walked

away perplexed at what they just heard. Meanwhile, the apostles were

struggling with  a short trip on a familiar lake to their hometown...

John 6:

18 Then the sea arose because a great wind was blowing. 

19 So when they had rowed about three or four miles,

they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near the boat;

and they were afraid. 

20 But He said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” 

21 Then they willingly received Him into the boat, and immediately

the boat was at the land where they were going.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Mr. M
added text

[farouk]

@Mr. M I've seen the term 'fragments' applied to suggest the idea of the great value of meditating on the Scriptures.