There are 2 separate tribulations, the first is to the Jew

[Stewardofthemystery]

Many speak of the tribulation to come, and there is in fact a Great Tribulation to come upon the entire world by way of God’s wrath being poured out on the inhabitants of the world.
But many do not understand that there are actually 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture.

In Romans 2:9 we read; "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile."

In this we see the mention of 2 different tribulation periods determined, with the first one which pertained to the Jews, and the last one, which is to be upon all the Nations of the entire Gentile world. 

This first tribulation to the Jews was announced to begin by Jesus right after the abomination of desolation and destruction of the Temple mount in Jerusalem occurred in 70 ad. (Luke 21:20-24)

This is referred to in scripture as the tribulation of “those days” which was determined to run “many days” (Daniel 11:33) even all the way to "the fullness of the Gentiles", which I believe is marked by the 6th seal events. 

Then at the point of the 6th seal being loosed, this would begin the time of trouble such as the world has never seen, (Daniel 12:1); or the wrath of the Lamb/God beginning to be poured out on the Gentile Nations. (Rev. 6:17)

Many confuse these 2 separate events as one single short tribulation event, but a careful study of scripture will show these 2 events are indeed shown as separate in time.

Also I would like to add there is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation, that is just the doctrines of men, as a 7 year tribulation is not mentioned anywhere in scripture, neither is a "pre-tribulation rapture."

So in a nut shell you have the begin point of the tribulation of “those days” (days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews) starting at 70 ad. as Jesus said and then running-------------->>>all the way to “after the tribulations of those days” confirmed by the 6th seal signs in scripture (sun, moon, stars) And then the beginning of God’s wrath being poured out on the entire Gentile world, or a time of trouble such as the world has never seen. All these things can be confirmed by a careful study of scripture.

The first tribulation period to the Jews was announced by Jesus and would start right after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. Luke confirms the start point in Luke 21:20-22“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” 

Also in John 12:31 Jesus said; "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
 

This event would take place after Christ was crucified, as seen with the man child Jesus being caught to God in Revelation 12:5. Also at this point in time the red Dragon, or the Devil would persecute the woman (spiritual Israel) after he was cast down unto the earth as seen in Revelation 12:13.

Many try to place all these events future forward concerning the last days, but these events were set into motion long ago with the judgment announced by Jesus.

The end of this first tribulation period for the Jews is shown in Matthew 24:29 with the words "after the tribulation of those days." If you notice in Matthew 24:29 there is a pause after verse 28. Then Jesus says; "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." =(6th seal sign)

Compare to Mark 13:24 were we see the same pause in the verse, and notice the description. Mark 13:24;"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

This sounds just like what the Matthew account has said; but it is the testimony in Luke that shall confirm the end point of this first tribulation period for the Jews, referring to “after those days.”

In Luke 21:25 we see the same pause in the verse, and the same signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. But if you will notice the verse before it we are shown when this first tribulation of those days would end, and then the signs in the heavens would begin. 

Luke 21:24;"And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

This prophecy in Luke 21:24 was shown in Daniel 11:33 “And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.”

Notice “many days” does not suggest a short 3 and a half year, 42 month, or 7 year tribulation period for the Jews. History also confirms this, the Jews have been scattered to the nations and have suffered persecution ever since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d.

When you are given understanding you will come to conclude that the time of 42 months is symbolic of time when you put all the pieces together comparing all scriptures on this matter.

This fullness of time of the Gentiles is the key to putting this time frame in its proper order of events.

In Revelation 11:2 we see this time period mentioned to John. Revelation 11:2;"But the court that is without the Temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 

I believe what throws most people off in this verse is the mention of 42 months, and discerning that time to be a literal 3 and half years. But this time, like most of the symbolisms in book of Revelation should not be taken at face value, but is rather spiritually discerned.

To prove this point, in scripture we see the millennium or thousand year reign of Christ is shown as "a season and a time" in Daniel 7:12. So if "a season and a time" is shown as "a thousand years", then a time, times and half a time would suggest an even longer period of time; not a short period of time like a short 42 month period. Scriptures also confirm this is cannot be the case as shown in Daniel 12:11-13.


I believe the 6th seal signs confirms the fullness of the Gentile age, but also begins the Great tribulation and wrath of the Lamb upon the entire world, or the time of God’s wrath and the day of vengeance as written. Isaiah 63:4 “For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.”

The start time of the Gentiles ingathering period began at Pentecost (7x7 days) right after Christ was crucified, and with the start of the New Covenant period to all Nations.

This start of the Gentile period is shown in the law as the "new meat offering" after the 7x7 days is complete. This treading down of the holy city (God’s people also shown as the “holy city”) also started long ago in 70 a.d., and has been ongoing ever since, and will continue till the time of the end.

This time of the Gentiles was also symbolized by a 42 month period, but it is only a sign of time. This sign of time is also shown to us in Matthew 1:17 with the 3 separate 14 generations periods, or 42 total generations leading up to the birth of Jesus. ( the law and prophets prophesied during these 42 generations)

This sign of time of 42 months can also be symbolically shown like the 7 priests first circling Jericho for 6 days, or 7x6=42. During these 42 generations leading up to Jesus’ birth the law and prophets prophesied as Jesus said in Matthew 11:13 Just as God’s 2 witnesses (Word and Spirit) were also forecast to prophesy for 42 months in all his saints in Revelation 11:3.
 

Keep in mind the Lord refers to his saints as the “holy city” and as “Jerusalem” in scripture.

Paul also spoke of this fullness of time for the Gentiles here in Romans 11:25;“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:26;“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

This removal of blindness and ungodliness from Jacob "after the tribulation of those days" is confirmed here in Jeremiah 31:33“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

This is the point in time of deliverance for God’s saints from the time of trouble that comes after ‘those days” is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Notice, the first “days of vengeance” Jesus proclaimed upon the Jews, starting with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad; is not the same time as is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 because the Jews were not delivered from that period of persecution, which scripture and history confirms lasted “many days” as is written.

But this time of persecution is symbolically shown as, time, times and a half, or symbolically 42 
months, or 1260 days.

But the “time of trouble” shown in Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking of a time of deliverance for God’s people and also shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which is after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

So this we know by scripture, and also by history, that these 2 separate tribulation events cannot be the same.

Peace and God bless

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Many speak of the tribulation to come, and there is in fact a Great Tribulation to come upon the entire world by way of God’s wrath being poured out on the inhabitants of the world.
But many do not understand that there are actually 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture.

In Romans 2:9 we read; "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile."

In this we see the mention of 2 different tribulation periods determined, with the first one which pertained to the Jews, and the last one, which is to be upon all the Nations of the entire Gentile world. 

This first tribulation to the Jews was announced to begin by Jesus right after the abomination of desolation and destruction of the Temple mount in Jerusalem occurred in 70 ad. (Luke 21:20-24)

This is referred to in scripture as the tribulation of “those days” which was determined to run “many days” (Daniel 11:33) even all the way to "the fullness of the Gentiles", which I believe is marked by the 6th seal events. 

Then at the point of the 6th seal being loosed, this would begin the time of trouble such as the world has never seen, (Daniel 12:1); or the wrath of the Lamb/God beginning to be poured out on the Gentile Nations. (Rev. 6:17)

Many confuse these 2 separate events as one single short tribulation event, but a careful study of scripture will show these 2 events are indeed shown as separate in time.

Also I would like to add there is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation, that is just the doctrines of men, as a 7 year tribulation is not mentioned anywhere in scripture, neither is a "pre-tribulation rapture."

So in a nut shell you have the begin point of the tribulation of “those days” (days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews) starting at 70 ad. as Jesus said and then running-------------->>>all the way to “after the tribulations of those days” confirmed by the 6th seal signs in scripture (sun, moon, stars) And then the beginning of God’s wrath being poured out on the entire Gentile world, or a time of trouble such as the world has never seen. All these things can be confirmed by a careful study of scripture.

The first tribulation period to the Jews was announced by Jesus and would start right after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. Luke confirms the start point in Luke 21:20-22“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” 

Also in John 12:31 Jesus said; "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
 

This event would take place after Christ was crucified, as seen with the man child Jesus being caught to God in Revelation 12:5. Also at this point in time the red Dragon, or the Devil would persecute the woman (spiritual Israel) after he was cast down unto the earth as seen in Revelation 12:13.

Many try to place all these events future forward concerning the last days, but these events were set into motion long ago with the judgment announced by Jesus.

The end of this first tribulation period for the Jews is shown in Matthew 24:29 with the words "after the tribulation of those days." If you notice in Matthew 24:29 there is a pause after verse 28. Then Jesus says; "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." =(6th seal sign)

Compare to Mark 13:24 were we see the same pause in the verse, and notice the description. Mark 13:24;"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

This sounds just like what the Matthew account has said; but it is the testimony in Luke that shall confirm the end point of this first tribulation period for the Jews, referring to “after those days.”

In Luke 21:25 we see the same pause in the verse, and the same signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. But if you will notice the verse before it we are shown when this first tribulation of those days would end, and then the signs in the heavens would begin. 

Luke 21:24;"And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

This prophecy in Luke 21:24 was shown in Daniel 11:33 “And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.”

Notice “many days” does not suggest a short 3 and a half year, 42 month, or 7 year tribulation period for the Jews. History also confirms this, the Jews have been scattered to the nations and have suffered persecution ever since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d.

When you are given understanding you will come to conclude that the time of 42 months is symbolic of time when you put all the pieces together comparing all scriptures on this matter.

This fullness of time of the Gentiles is the key to putting this time frame in its proper order of events.

In Revelation 11:2 we see this time period mentioned to John. Revelation 11:2;"But the court that is without the Temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 

I believe what throws most people off in this verse is the mention of 42 months, and discerning that time to be a literal 3 and half years. But this time, like most of the symbolisms in book of Revelation should not be taken at face value, but is rather spiritually discerned.

To prove this point, in scripture we see the millennium or thousand year reign of Christ is shown as "a season and a time" in Daniel 7:12. So if "a season and a time" is shown as "a thousand years", then a time, times and half a time would suggest an even longer period of time; not a short period of time like a short 42 month period. Scriptures also confirm this is cannot be the case as shown in Daniel 12:11-13.


I believe the 6th seal signs confirms the fullness of the Gentile age, but also begins the Great tribulation and wrath of the Lamb upon the entire world, or the time of God’s wrath and the day of vengeance as written. Isaiah 63:4 “For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.”

The start time of the Gentiles ingathering period began at Pentecost (7x7 days) right after Christ was crucified, and with the start of the New Covenant period to all Nations.

This start of the Gentile period is shown in the law as the "new meat offering" after the 7x7 days is complete. This treading down of the holy city (God’s people also shown as the “holy city”) also started long ago in 70 a.d., and has been ongoing ever since, and will continue till the time of the end.

This time of the Gentiles was also symbolized by a 42 month period, but it is only a sign of time. This sign of time is also shown to us in Matthew 1:17 with the 3 separate 14 generations periods, or 42 total generations leading up to the birth of Jesus. ( the law and prophets prophesied during these 42 generations)

This sign of time of 42 months can also be symbolically shown like the 7 priests first circling Jericho for 6 days, or 7x6=42. During these 42 generations leading up to Jesus’ birth the law and prophets prophesied as Jesus said in Matthew 11:13 Just as God’s 2 witnesses (Word and Spirit) were also forecast to prophesy for 42 months in all his saints in Revelation 11:3.
 

Keep in mind the Lord refers to his saints as the “holy city” and as “Jerusalem” in scripture.

Paul also spoke of this fullness of time for the Gentiles here in Romans 11:25;“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:26;“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

This removal of blindness and ungodliness from Jacob "after the tribulation of those days" is confirmed here in Jeremiah 31:33“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

This is the point in time of deliverance for God’s saints from the time of trouble that comes after ‘those days” is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Notice, the first “days of vengeance” Jesus proclaimed upon the Jews, starting with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad; is not the same time as is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 because the Jews were not delivered from that period of persecution, which scripture and history confirms lasted “many days” as is written.

But this time of persecution is symbolically shown as, time, times and a half, or symbolically 42 
months, or 1260 days.

But the “time of trouble” shown in Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking of a time of deliverance for God’s people and also shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which is after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

So this we know by scripture, and also by history, that these 2 separate tribulation events cannot be the same.

Peace and God bless

Actually Jesus was quoting Daniel 12:1 when he was speaking about the abomination that causes desolation in Mathew 24

Let us take a look at the text.

Mathew 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

Now let us compare that last verse spoken by Jesus to Daniel 12:1.

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

 

Now what this tells us is that it is at this time that the abomination that causeth desolation is placed in Jerusalem causing tribulation,such as has not been seen from the time that there was a nation on earth untill this time,or ever shall be as Jesus said in Mathew 24:21.

[Stewardofthemystery]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Actually Jesus was quoting Daniel 12:1 when he was speaking about the abomination that causes desolation in Mathew 24

Let us take a look at the text.

Mathew 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

Now let us compare that last verse spoken by Jesus to Daniel 12:1.

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

 

Now what this tells us is that it is at this time that the abomination that causeth desolation is placed in Jerusalem causing tribulation,such as has not been seen from the time that there was a nation on earth untill this time,or ever shall be as Jesus said in Mathew 24:21.

Nope.

Notice, the first “days of vengeance” Jesus proclaimed upon the Jews, starting with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad; is not the same time as is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 because the Jews were not delivered from that period of persecution, which scripture and history confirms lasted “many days” as is written.

But the “time of trouble” shown in Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking of a time of deliverance for God’s people and also shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which is after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Nope.

 

Notice, the first “days of vengeance” Jesus proclaimed upon the Jews, starting with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad; is not the same time as is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 because the Jews were not delivered from that period of persecution, which scripture and history confirms lasted “many days” as is written.

But the “time of trouble” shown in Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking of a time of deliverance for God’s people and also shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which is after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

So you believe Jesus was wrong when he said

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Or are you saying Daniel was wrong when he said

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

Because the only way both of them are right is if they are speaking of the same tribulation 

[R. Hartono]

The wise virgins are taken to the wedding but the foolish left behind in great tribulation.

The 2 Witnesses will testify for the first 3,5 years. After they died the beast continue for 1260 days totalling 7 years of tribulation

 

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The wise virgins are taken to the wedding but the foolish left behind in great tribulation.

The 2 Witnesses will testify for the first 3,5 years. After they died the beast continue for 1260 days totalling 7 years of tribulation

 

Kinda hard for the beast from the pit to continue seeing Jesus reigns over that kingdom then.

 

Revelation 11

 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Many speak of the tribulation to come, and there is in fact a Great Tribulation to come upon the entire world by way of God’s wrath being poured out on the inhabitants of the world.
But many do not understand that there are actually 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture.

In Romans 2:9 we read; "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile."

In this we see the mention of 2 different tribulation periods determined, with the first one which pertained to the Jews, and the last one, which is to be upon all the Nations of the entire Gentile world. 

This first tribulation to the Jews was announced to begin by Jesus right after the abomination of desolation and destruction of the Temple mount in Jerusalem occurred in 70 ad. (Luke 21:20-24)

This is referred to in scripture as the tribulation of “those days” which was determined to run “many days” (Daniel 11:33) even all the way to "the fullness of the Gentiles", which I believe is marked by the 6th seal events. 

Troubles reward the wicked as the Proverbs say in so many words. The wise go around those same troubles, so you are speaking in general terms via those verses. Then we have the troubles Jesus stated would follow us the Church around,  as John 16:33 says, we will have TRIBULATION in this [evil] world, but peace in Christ Jesus. This is why the 70th week is Jacob's troubles, but the last 3.5 yeas is God's Wrath, and he allows the Anti-Christ to go firth conquering on that very day (DOTL) at the 1260. 

The AoD was not 70 AD, that will be an End Time Event, as seen in Dan. 9:27. The Dan. 11:33 verses is about Antiochus Epiphanes in 175ish BC. So, you have everything conflated brother. No Seals are opened until after the Pre Trib Rapture, where we see the Saints in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9-19 BEFORE the Seals are opened up.

9 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Then at the point of the 6th seal being loosed, this would begin the time of trouble such as the world has never seen, (Daniel 12:1); or the wrath of the Lamb/God beginning to be poured out on the Gentile Nations. (Rev. 6:17)

Actually the Greatest Ever Troubles begin with the 7th Seal, that is why it is over in Rev. 8 with the Trumpet Judgments, there are only 7 Judgments, the 7 Vials finish up the 7th Trump, they emit from the 7th Trump, we know this because Rev. 8:13 tells us the last three Trumps sounding bring the Three Woes, and the 3rd Woe brings the 7 Vials which wrap up God's Wrath.

Psstt, the 7 Seals do nothing, they are merely Jesus foretelling what is soon to come when the Sealed Book/Scroll is finally opened up. That is why Seal #7 is over in Rev. 8 where the Asteroid hits.

9 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Also I would like to add there is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation, that is just the doctrines of men, as a 7 year tribulation is not mentioned anywhere in scripture, neither is a "pre-tribulation rapture."

WATCH VERY CLOSELY !!

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

How many million of our Church brothers have built the church via their blood? The Romans burned us at the stake, the Muslims and Moore's killed millions, we have tribulation in this evil world continually, thus those multitude seen in Rev. 7:9-17 came out of CHURCH AGE TRIBULATION, the Pre Trib Rapture. Its says these came out of great tribulation, not the Greatest ever troubles. We see them in Rev. 5:9-10, in Heaven, they say we have been REDEEMED out of EVERY Nation !! Now can you understand why the 70th week is 7 years of tribulation and 3.5 years of the Greatest Ever Troubles? You are looking at the word TROUBLES as a word that God can only use if also uses GRESTEST EVER, but that is just not a well reasoned thought. I could pitch a 1 hitter in the world series and that could be a GREAT GAME but someone else might pitch a greater game, a No-hitter, but alas, the GREATEST EVER Pitching performance might be a perfect game, NO HITS, NO WALKS !! You see, GREAT can be used in multiple ways by men, surely God's vocabulary is not restricted is it? 

So, yes, the 3.5 year very end is the Greatest Ever Troubles, the Church Age has been GREAT TROUBLES fir our brothers, many overcame by their blood !! Brothers in Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria etc. etc. are living in  great peril as we speak. Concepts need to be THOUGHT THROUGH !!

9 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

So in a nut shell you have the begin point of the tribulation of “those days” (days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews) starting at 70 ad. as Jesus said and then running-------------->>>all the way to “after the tribulations of those days” confirmed by the 6th seal signs in scripture (sun, moon, stars) And then the beginning of God’s wrath being poured out on the entire Gentile world, or a time of trouble such as the world has never seen. All these things can be confirmed by a careful study of scripture.

Troubles STARTED in 70 AD.........I quit reading, there will be a Greatest Ever Troubles, and it has not started, we see 1/4 of mankind wiped out, and 1/3 of those who took the Mark of the Beast wiped out. And Jesus returns after the 1260 day reign of the Beast. You went down a wrong path and you are stuck in a cul-de-sac. 

Again, Dan. 11:33 IS NOT the End Time AoD, it was Antiochus defiling the temple of God by sacrificing a pig in the temple, unto Zeus, Jason (Real name Yeshua) the False Prophet ARCHETYPE welcomed him into the temple, he was a Hellenist, or a Jew that loved the Greek Culture and ways, over his own. This in verses 34-35 that is a 2220 year period of men BECOMING White (Church Age included) until the very end. A transition from  Antiochus in verse 33ad maybe 34 to verse 36.

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Troubles reward the wicked as the Proverbs say in so many words. The wise go around those same troubles, so you are speaking in general terms via those verses. Then we have the troubles Jesus stated would follow us the Church around,  as John 16:33 says, we will have TRIBULATION in this [evil] world, but peace in Christ Jesus. This is why the 70th week is Jacob's troubles, but the last 3.5 yeas is God's Wrath, and he allows the Anti-Christ to go firth conquering on that very day (DOTL) at the 1260. 

The AoD was not 70 AD, that will be an End Time Event, as seen in Dan. 9:27. The Dan. 11:33 verses is about Antiochus Epiphanes in 175ish BC. So, you have everything conflated brother. No Seals are opened until after the Pre Trib Rapture, where we see the Saints in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9-19 BEFORE the Seals are opened up.

Actually the Greatest Ever Troubles begin with the 7th Seal, that is why it is over in Rev. 8 with the Trumpet Judgments, there are only 7 Judgments, the 7 Vials finish up the 7th Trump, they emit from the 7th Trump, we know this because Rev. 8:13 tells us the last three Trumps sounding bring the Three Woes, and the 3rd Woe brings the 7 Vials which wrap up God's Wrath.

Psstt, the 7 Seals do nothing, they are merely Jesus foretelling what is soon to come when the Sealed Book/Scroll is finally opened up. That is why Seal #7 is over in Rev. 8 where the Asteroid hits.

WATCH VERY CLOSELY !!

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

How many million of our Church brothers have built the church via their blood? The Romans burned us at the stake, the Muslims and Moore's killed millions, we have tribulation in this evil world continually, thus those multitude seen in Rev. 7:9-17 came out of CHURCH AGE TRIBULATION, the Pre Trib Rapture. Its says these came out of great tribulation, not the Greatest ever troubles. We see them in Rev. 5:9-10, in Heaven, they say we have been REDEEMED out of EVERY Nation !! Now can you understand why the 70th week is 7 years of tribulation and 3.5 years of the Greatest Ever Troubles? You are looking at the word TROUBLES as a word that God can only use if also uses GRESTEST EVER, but that is just not a well reasoned thought. I could pitch a 1 hitter in the world series and that could be a GREAT GAME but someone else might pitch a greater game, a No-hitter, but alas, the GREATEST EVER Pitching performance might be a perfect game, NO HITS, NO WALKS !! You see, GREAT can be used in multiple ways by men, surely God's vocabulary is not restricted is it? 

So, yes, the 3.5 year very end is the Greatest Ever Troubles, the Church Age has been GREAT TROUBLES fir our brothers, many overcame by their blood !! Brothers in Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria etc. etc. are living in  great peril as we speak. Concepts need to be THOUGHT THROUGH !!

Troubles STARTED in 70 AD.........I quit reading, there will be a Greatest Ever Troubles, and it has not started, we see 1/4 of mankind wiped out, and 1/3 of those who took the Mark of the Beast wiped out. And Jesus returns after the 1260 day reign of the Beast. You went down a wrong path and you are stuck in a cul-de-sac. 

Again, Dan. 11:33 IS NOT the End Time AoD, it was Antiochus defiling the temple of God by sacrificing a pig in the temple, unto Zeus, Jason (Real name Yeshua) the False Prophet ARCHETYPE welcomed him into the temple, he was a Hellenist, or a Jew that loved the Greek Culture and ways, over his own. This in verses 34-35 that is a 2220 year period of men BECOMING White (Church Age included) until the very end. A transition from  Antiochus in verse 33ad maybe 34 to verse 36.

 

 

Sure, there has always been troubles and tribulations for Gods people.

But as I showed in my OP the first tribulation, including Gods wrath is first to the Jews.

“After the tribulation of those days” Gods favor shall return to Israel and His wrath is to be poured out on the Gentile nations who persecuted Gods people.

These verses below show where the wrath of God is taken from the Jews and is given to the Gentiles ….

 

Isaiah 51:17-23

 

King James Version

 

 

¹⁷ Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.

¹⁸ There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.

¹⁹ These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?

²⁰ Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.

²¹ Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:

²² Thus saith thy Lord the Lord, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:

²³ But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.”

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Sure, there has always been troubles and tribulations for Gods people.

But as I showed in my OP the first tribulation, including Gods wrath is first to the Jews.

“After the tribulation of those days” Gods favor shall return to Israel and His wrath is to be poured out on the Gentile nations who persecuted Gods people.

These verses below show where the wrath of God is taken from the Jews and is given to the Gentiles ….

 

This goes back to my point, people/MEN, seem to want to limit God's vocabulary, I am sure there are thousands of places in the bible tat mentions "TROUBLES" what we have to do is use the DESCRIPTORS to differentiate between those simple troubles in life, in Nations lives etc. and the Greatest Ever Troubles, which is God's Wrath, and that Wrath INCLUDES God allowing the world to get the "King" they so love, the Anti-Christ. 

You have to be able to understand which troubles is which and which wrath is which. God smote men with the great flood. He had wrath against the Canaanites. He surely punished Israel time and again, but the Greatest Ever Troubles have never come to pass yet. That happens starting with an Asteroid hitting the earth as Revelation chapter 8 CLEARLY SHOWS.............Like I stated, get the DESCRIPTORS CORRECT, then you can understand what means what.

[Stewardofthemystery]

33 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

This goes back to my point, people/MEN, seem to want to limit God's vocabulary, I am sure there are thousands of places in the bible tat mentions "TROUBLES" what we have to do is use the DESCRIPTORS to differentiate between those simple troubles in life, in Nations lives etc. and the Greatest Ever Troubles, which is God's Wrath, and that Wrath INCLUDES God allowing the world to get the "King" they so love, the Anti-Christ. 

You have to be able to understand which troubles is which and which wrath is which. God smote men with the great flood. He had wrath against the Canaanites. He surely punished Israel time and again, but the Greatest Ever Troubles have never come to pass yet. That happens starting with an Asteroid hitting the earth as Revelation chapter 8 CLEARLY SHOWS.............Like I stated, get the DESCRIPTORS CORRECT, then you can understand what means what.

Even the saints enter into the sufferings of Christ, as is written. And in this world we are determined to have troubles and tribulation.

But the wrath of God is determined to be poured out on the disobedient and  evil doers, notice what Paul said…

Romans 2:9

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
 

So it is not the saints that suffer Gods wrath, but the sinners, unbelievers, the disobedient and evil doers.

 

Another thing I think many people miss is that not all of Gods wrath and plagues are natural or physical.  Many of Gods plagues are spiritual, plagues of the heart/mind.

 

In this way only the wicked are effected, not the righteous.  If you look at the story of the Exodus from Egypt when God was pouring out His plagues upon Egypt and the Egyptians, the children of Israel were not effected.

 

Gods people are not appointed to suffer the wrath of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,