The Hard Sayings of Jesus

[Mama Etna]

Bashing catholics is hardly helpful.

You can attract more with honey then you can with gall.

[LiveWire]

Just wondering, do people give the Catholics more of a break because they do profess that Jesus is God, unlike Mormons and Jehova Witnesses?

 

All are in serious error.  But, are Catholics getting more of a break because to them Jesus is Deity?

[NConly]

Who

Edited July 15, 2023 by NConly
repair

[PATrobas]

If this forum site was open primarily so that the world would come and be saved, then the topics should only be the Gospel, for that is all they could understand.

If it is primarily for Christians to learn and grow, then the topics should reflect and be based on the truth of Scripture.

I understood this forum to be of the latter. If that be so, then to express scripture as one sees it should not be limited and let others judge whether it is sound doctrine or not.

If a member of the Mormon church, or the JW's, or Roman Catholic church should be here reading, then they should be exposed to the false teachings of their denomination and be shown scripturally why they are false. If they are truly members of the body of Christ and just lack Biblical teaching, then they should be honest enough to seek and ask questions. If they aren't saved, then these topics will definitely offend them. If they go, they go, just as the followers of Jesus did when they didn't understand His meaning of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. He didn't apologize nor go running after them.

The three groups I mentioned above are cults and preach a false Gospel of works salvation among other gross errors. I was raised through High School in the RC church until I was born again through the preaching of the Gospel by two door-to-door preachers who were bold enough to tell me the truth. They didn't point out RC error but told me I must be born again to enter heaven. After I was saved I was glad to be taught the truth about what God delivered me from; Religion.

I agree with B Judson's doctrine and though he may come across as rough, I would hope he is being rough on the RC church's teaching, not on RC's as people.

Paul put it to Timothy this way:

2Tim 2:24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, :25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth :26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And to the churches of Galatia he said this:

Gal 1:6  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: :7  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. :8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As in my original post, Jesus said some hard things.

[Vine Abider]

31 minutes ago, PATrobas said:

If this forum site was open primarily so that the world would come and be saved, then the topics should only be the Gospel, for that is all they could understand.

If it is primarily for Christians to learn and grow, then the topics should reflect and be based on the truth of Scripture.

I understood this forum to be of the latter. If that be so, then to express scripture as one sees it should not be limited and let others judge whether it is sound doctrine or not.

If a member of the Mormon church, or the JW's, or Roman Catholic church should be here reading, then they should be exposed to the false teachings of their denomination and be shown scripturally why they are false. If they are truly members of the body of Christ and just lack Biblical teaching, then they should be honest enough to seek and ask questions. If they aren't saved, then these topics will definitely offend them. If they go, they go, just as the followers of Jesus did when they didn't understand His meaning of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. He didn't apologize nor go running after them.

The three groups I mentioned above are cults and preach a false Gospel of works salvation among other gross errors. I was raised through High School in the RC church until I was born again through the preaching of the Gospel by two door-to-door preachers who were bold enough to tell me the truth. They didn't point out RC error but told me I must be born again to enter heaven. After I was saved I was glad to be taught the truth about what God delivered me from; Religion.

I agree with B Judson's doctrine and though he may come across as rough, I would hope he is being rough on the RC church's teaching, not on RC's as people.

Paul put it to Timothy this way:

2Tim 2:24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, :25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth :26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And to the churches of Galatia he said this:

Gal 1:6  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: :7  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. :8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As in my original post, Jesus said some hard things.

If you looked around the forum, you would find many such things discussing the RCC system, mentioned in various threads.  I know, because I've presented a number of things myself about that system. Much of Christendom is still engaged with certain things that came from it.

I think what some on here object to is the "all guns blazing" approach, before even getting a little footing in what this forum is about - to me it's the pursuit of Christ and edifying my fellow members in the body of Christ.

When I touch Christ, I am often impressed by His love and tenderness.  Does having all the guns blazing emulate Him, His love, His tenderness? Not saying He is never doing that, but . . .

We are really only one in Him - not in doctrines or teachings or our passions of the day.  My thinking is slow down a little and let's major on the majors first - knowing Him and His flow of life & love between the members of the body.

cc: @B Judson

[Mr. M]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:52 PM, PATrobas said:

Reminders – The Hard Sayings of Jesus

            Jesus said some hard things to those that didn’t yet have the ability to understand the meanings of His words. They heard and understood the language He was speaking but they lacked the power to comprehend His message. When Jesus talked to Nicodemus about new life, he understood Jesus’ words about physical birth, but he totally missed the message about spiritual birth and being “born again.” Jesus explained saying, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, you must be born again.” ^{John 3:5-7} Even after Jesus’ explanation, Nicodemus still did not understand, saying to Him, “How can these things be?” ^{John 3:9}

            After feeding the 5,000 with just five loaves of bread and two fish, a multitude followed Him, seeking to know how to get more free food. Jesus tried to tell them to look beyond physical food for life and to seek spiritual food for eternal life, saying, “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, …I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die, …Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” ^{John 6:27, 48-50, 53} Like Nicodemus, they were only thinking physically and they “quarreled among themselves, saying, How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” ^{John 6:52} Again, Jesus tried to explain the meaning of His words saying, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.” ^{John 6:63} Even though He spoke plainly to them, we learn that “From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will you also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” ^{John 6:66-68} I don’t think Peter fathomed what Jesus meant any more than those that left, but he grasped enough to recognize the source of eternal life and remain with Him.

            Final Thoughts: To eat the raw flesh or drink the blood of an animal was an abomination to the Jews. To physically do what Jesus said was unthinkable, so they labeled Him a blaspheming heretic and had Him crucified. We, like Peter, know that the Word of God has the words of eternal life. But to unlock the meaning of those words that are written in the Bible and are heard in our hearts takes the power of the Holy Spirit. Let’s neither miss nor dismiss the meaning of the words by failing to ask the author to reveal them, and then give us the faith to believe. Only then, can we do the hard sayings of Jesus.

 

John 3:31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

John 8:23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 

John 6:

27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.

 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 

The explanation for this "hard saying" is in the simplicity of our relationship with one another in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.

A full study of John's use of the word "abide" in his Gospel and first epistle leads to only one conclusion. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ points directly to our fellowship. [G3306]-meno=abide.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3306/kjv/tr/0-1/

The Catholic Church attempted to explain this from an earthly perspective, but in vain. A Reformed Church that bashes the Catholic Church, while failing to make right conclusions on this matter is equally vain. The bedrock of Christianity always has and always will be in our willingness to gather together regularly and frequently, to break the bread of fellowship, and drink from the Cup of Salvation. Are many of you ill? Have many of your brethren beloved passed prematurely? Have you stumbled upon the reason why?

1 Corinthians 11:

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 

29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 

30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

 

[Mama Etna]

The primary focus of this site is the gospel message.  If we get the person to focus on the gospel and establish a personal relationship with Jesus, the rest of the stuff will take care of itself.

The Catholic church has a lot wrong with it, but so do a lot of other denominations.  Beating people over the head with what is wrong with their church isn't really going to change their minds.  Biblical truth and the gospel message will change hearts and get people more focused on God instead of the fat that is weighing down their church.  They may even decide to switch to one with less problems.

[other one]

2 hours ago, LiveWire said:

Just wondering, do people give the Catholics more of a break because they do profess that Jesus is God, unlike Mormons and Jehova Witnesses?

 

All are in serious error.  But, are Catholics getting more of a break because to them Jesus is Deity?

They don't get more of a break here,  There are SDA's Mormons that come at times.  None of them can promote their doctrines without being confronted in a kind  way.    Catholic doctrine is confronted as it comes up as it should be, but the general bashing of the catholic church, or Mormons and JW churches isn't allowed as far as I know.

Some of the posts I've seen in the past two days is kind of like a friend I had some 30 years ago that would get in the face of a Gay person and in a loud haughty voice tell them they were going to hell.   Besides occasionally getting smacked in the jaw, it just turned the person against anything that not only my friend would say but also almost all other Christians.

The problem isn't that I disagree with most of what is being said, but the way it's written and covering everything someone disagrees with all at once is just too much.  Especially when fonts are enlarged and color coded.

 

[other one]

Sometimes you can be right about what you write but be very wrong in how you write it.

[Mama Etna]

Harsh words do more harm than good when you are trying to steer someone in the right direction.

There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health. - Proverbs 12:18

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: - James 1:19