WHAT IF!

[Neighbor]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

so you get on here to chide and correct me, when you are in error

Neither chide nor correct you, not worth anyone's time to do so. No one is in error for questioning and questioning yet again what is shared within the Bible. I have been raised upon a pretribulation rapture of the church.

Do I find others that have different presentations, questions, and opinions, to be errant to the point of losing salvation? No of course not!

What I have stated briefly here is that much if not most of the churched  population does not concur with the position that I was raised up on. That is not a chiding, it is an observation.

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, shanee said:

Can't be tricked by the Antichrist? Isn't that the whole point? To not be tricked by the Antichrist and take the mark?

I didn't take it if that's what just happened

Not really, after the Pre Trib Rapture those people will still have a choice, but here is the rub, and why I warn everyone who are teaching the whole "everyone goes through the 70th week troubles understandings" they are going to cause many people to not be ready, and once those same people get in the 70th week, many will not escape it, because many are too weak to do what must be done at that time. Even if they do repent, many will die via God's Wrath, the Americas are the 1/3 that will burn, just like tornadoes and earthquakes kill Christians, so will God's Wrath, which is why we are taken out, just like Abraham and Lot were taken out before destruction came, as was Noah taken out of the destruction zone via an Ark. 

My 19 year old Nephew said he dreamed a dream where the Lord spoke to him, hugged him and told him many come in my name, but I never knew you scripture, because he has like 8 girlfriends, he's went wild. So, if a guy like that is not Raptured, and they bring his mom or girlfriend(s)-SMH, and threaten to kill her, most kids like that will relent and take the Mark of the Beast, so it is imperative to reach them with FACTS, they need to know if you do not make the Pre Trib Rapture you will be in for a very hard time. But if they are told that we must go through the 70th week troubles, which is just not factual, then many young people will say, Heck if I have to go through the 70th week troubles anyway, I might as well wait on repenting until then, and that will be a fatal mistake, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth to the 5 brides who miss the Pre Trib Rapture/Wedding call of Jesus the bridegroom. 

The only people the A.C. has to try and trick are the Jews who are in a "protected zone" in the Petra/Bozrah area, he needs them to leave the "safe zone" or he can not kill them, he can get at everyone else, so there will be no need to trick them !! That is my point, it will be CHOICE, now that choice may be at the end of a gun barrel, but God will not let people choose hell without knowing what they are choosing, the AFFIRMATION of the heart is needed to choose God or Satan, someone sneaking in an shot, or a signing of a paper under false pretenses etc. is not "The Mark of the Beast" that is going to be a Mark someone takes that affirms they chose the Beast/Government Systems over God !! Many will take it at the point of being killed or loved ones being killed. This is why the truthful pre trib rapture must be taught to our youth. 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Neither chide nor correct you, not worth anyone's time to do so. No one is in error for questioning and questioning yet again what is shared within the Bible. I have been raised upon a pretribulation rapture of the church.

Do I find others that have different presentations, questions, and opinions, to be errant to the point of losing salvation? No of course not!

What I have stated briefly here is that much if not most of the churched  population does not concur with the position that I was raised up on. That is not a chiding, it is an observation.

You can have that opinion, I have no problem in general, but I don't understand why those of other persuasions feel the need to always point out we are wrong in every reply to a post where we speak of our understandings (which is correct and will be proven so soon). 

Now above in my post/reply unto shanee I show why preaching anything but the Pre Trib will cost many people to perish in the 70th week, needlessly. Anything that cost humans to go to hell I feel the need to speak up and point it out, when challenged.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Justin Adams]

I think all dispensational thinking is inherently wrong and a distraction. There is no pre-trib anything. Study history. 

I am not a die hard preterist, but Darby and his ilk have done too much damage already.

Time to rethink all the MOB and Rapture and beast and 7-year this and that.. rethink it all.

Just go and make disciples as Yeshua/Jesus told us to do. If we get busy doing that we will have no time for presuppositions based on the musings of an itinerant Brit Bretheren nutcase and his 'advisor' Ms (dream-girl) Mcdonald.

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I don't understand why those of other persuasions fee the need to always point out we are wrong in every reply to a post where we speak of our understandings (which is correct and will be proven so soon). 

 

I think that in general it is easier. Easier for Christians to be complacent simply holding to that which they already know than it is to exercise the mind in reading prayer thinking and more prayer. Humanity at large is much that way too, once an idea takes hold it is easier to accept all that conforms to that idea and reject all that does not than it is to open up and examine the whys of what is already thought to be so. It is "Cognitive dissonance" in play.

[Revelation Man]

46 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

I think that in general it is easier. Easier for Christians to be complacent simply holding to that which they already know than it is to exercise the mind in reading prayer thinking and more prayer. Humanity at large is much that way too, once an idea takes hold it is easier to accept all that conforms to that idea and reject all that does not than it is to open up and examine the whys of what is already thought to be so. It is "Cognitive dissonance" in play.

I think people (like Martin Luther) who can't see the Book of Revelation (BoR) clearly for what it is just throws up their arms and don't accept that their calling may not be in Prophecy. I can explain every verse in the BoR where anyone can understand it and match it up with Dan. 2, 7 and 8, and Zech. 13 and 14, and Isaiah 10 etc. but the problem is people wont listen, they already know it all, even though they themselves are not given that gift, God via others may be trying to teach them, but they refuse to spend the time to grasp it.

In Rom. 11 what does Paul say? That vi he Churches actions God will have MERCY on the Jews and thus they will be grafted back in but how? When the fulness (SERVICE unto God) 0f the Gentiles is come in then the Blindness of Israel will b taken away, but how? Well, both questions mesh, everything you and I speak about what will soon come to pass, and then it happens, that builds their faith up, so when the Two-witnesses show up they are primed to repent at the 1335 events.

Us showing how Scriptures God put forth 2000-2500-3000 years ago are coming true today of course edifies God. 

So, this is the difference between a man called unto prophecy and people not called. I am going to give you three examples.

Zechariah 13 is my fav chapter, I have men who say this was fulfilled in Jesus death/times because of verses 6-7, and many others who say it is about the very end times "only". But alas, verses 6-7 is doing a great thing, it makes the passage that much stronger. What we got is verses 1-5 about Israel repenting, finding the fountain that makes them whole (blood of Jesus) etc. then in verses 6-7 we see it speaking about Jesus' hands being wounded in the house of his friends and then vs. 7 says when the Shepard is smitten his flock will therefore be scattered, then we go back into verses 8-9 where we see 1/3 of the end time Jews repent whilst 2/3 will be cut-off/die, the 1/3 will call God their God again and He will call them His children.

So, what's the rub? Well its simple, a Prophecy nigh 2500 years ago put forth a Prophecy about where the End Time Jews repent, come back to God, and they have a "FOUNTAIN" that atones them. Then in verses 6-7 we see what it is that atones them, both thins are n one prophecy, one is 2500 years away the other 500 years away, that makes the prophecy that much more incredulous. But we have people not called unto Prophecy, mixing other people up by pointing out verses 6-7's timing. 

The exact same thing happens to most Preterists elsewhere, they conflate the scriptures timings.

Another example about the way God gives us biblical warnings etc. is in Rev. 16:15-16, people say SEE, SEE, God is saying the Thief in the Night action happens just before Armageddon. Well, that is not what is happening here, the Rapture was Pre Trib, so why is this bit added in now? 

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Because God is saying REMEMBER, I told you so !! As his final wrath is falling, but He writes it in a prophecy in Rev. 16, written 2000 years ago, so this of us reading can understand, not only did God warn us to be ready when Jesus came for his bride, but ha also is showing what will happen to those who are not ready and God throws in an SEE, SEE, SEE, I warned you about THIS, Vials 6 & 7.

Finally, Dan. 7:11 says the Beasts body is DESTROYED (Killed) then he is cast into hellfire. Rev. 19:20 says the Beast is cast ALIVE into hell, well God can not lie. So what is the rub? Well, we are IMMORTAL, made in Gods image, we will never die, those who die Paul says only sleeps, the Wicked Dead Sleeps and will be resurrected at the 2nd Resurrection. So, the Beast and False Prophet will never be given this chance to rest/sleep in the grave, as soon as thy die Angles will take them and cast thee into hell, alive in the Spirit world, the exact same way Stab operates today, with no body.

It might be your calling to only reach the lost, but as 1 Col 12 shows us we all have different gifts of the Spirit. 

[JimmyB]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You can have that opinion, I have no problem in general, but I don't understand why those of other persuasions feel the need to always point out we are wrong in every reply to a post where we speak of our understandings (which is correct and will be proven so soon). 

Now above in my post/reply unto shanee I show why preaching anything but the Pre Trib will cost many people to perish in the 70th week, needlessly. Anything that cost humans to go to hell I feel the need to speak up and point it out, when challenged.

This is a forum where issues are often debated.  When you claim that your understandings are correct that is an open invitation for others to challenge you.

[LiveWire]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:27 AM, teddyv said:

What if the mark already happened in the time immediately when John wrote these things to the churches? 

Because we know there is a literal written out process of how events would take place.   Then there would finally be Armageddon.   Mill Reign.   And the next process would be a New Earth.   That would make the Earth around 1,000 years old, Today.   And for you, as a Geologist, that means the dates you currently believe to be true are severely incorrect.   And I doubt, that is something you would admit to, a 1,000 year old Earth.

Edited July 20, 2023 by LiveWire

[LiveWire]

This covers any preterist idealism.

Are you claiming the current Earth is less than 1,000 years old?

 

MOB, Armageddon, 1,000 year Reign/New Earth = 1,000 year old Earth

Edited July 20, 2023 by LiveWire

[Revelation Man]

43 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

This is a forum where issues are often debated.  When you claim that your understandings are correct that is an open invitation for others to challenge you.

For starters I was replying to the OP and I stated my opinion on the Rapture being Pre Trib, yes that is "debated" in many places, but usually when I see someone in a LARGER POINTED DISCUSSION, say in the middle of the week (Pre Wrath Rapture) or at the very end (2nd Coming Rapture) I don't feel the need to jump in to an overall bigger picture conversation and mention one or two things pointedly, but all of the anti Pre Trib guys do, WHY? 

So, you got the general description of what went down wrong, I can debate anything, like the subject in the OP Like, WHAT I, we see this conglomeration if world events that lead us unto Global Government, with one currency, and they try to put a chip in your body or else you have no access to monies etc. etc. So I replied why I see that as being a non issue (A DEBATE) like this below:

 

MY FIRST POST.................Below

"""Firstly, I nor the Church will be here, secondly, the Beast only rules over the E.U. (where his power base is) and the Mediterranean Sea Region, and 1/3 of the world (probably the New World in full) is going to burn. Lastly, anyone who takes the Mark f the Beast is signifying he is choosing the Anti-Christs side over God, no one can be tricked per se."""  

Important summation from a Pre Tribbers position. NOTICE, he mentioned not one thing about anything else in his reply except about the Pre Trib Rapture being WRONG.  

Meanwhile I say the end tie A.C. is not a world wide rule, I know this because the bible says so, an I am called unto Prophecy, it is not I who choose whom is called unto what. 

What I say I can back up, if people aren't too impatient to read. I don't think God tells us to worry ourselves with other men's thoughts when He reveals His truths uno us. God is no respecter of persons, but Jesus also warned us about heeding Men's Traditions when he chastised the Pharisees. So, I don't follow men, but God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. 

No one challenges me, they say something, I show them where my points are correct and then they usually just dodge me. I wish someone would try to go point by point, then they could actually see why I say the things do, on these message boards its a mere impossibility. I have been doing this nigh 40 years, I don't just guess, I leave guessing for others.