How could the unbelieving world receive salvation and be saved in the great tribulation ?

[DeighAnn]

On 8/17/2023 at 12:58 AM, Strict Machine said:

Byter,

the number of messianic jews is growing, i know this is the key to Jesus return.  i am part hebrew myself, my grandfather was full jewish on both sides and my family is famous in europe because hitler almost killed them all in the holocaust, so i am eager to see the jews accept Jesus.  other than praying, i don't think we can speed this up.  those verses are good, you have done a very good examination of the bible

I think everyone can pray all they want but it won't make a difference until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled and the BLINDNESS comes off.  

Jesus tells us there will be those who will keep the law when He says not a jot or tittle will pass...IF they didn't do that work WHO WOULD?  

No wonder they are mad at Christians always telling them to come to faith WHEN THEY CAN'T.  

I would be mad too.  






BUT think how much more they will understand what the role of Saviour was all about.  

 If Christians would do their part(spread the good news)  as well as the Jews are doing theirs (keeping the law and the prophets) they would quit persecuting their BRETHREN and would quit boasting...but when coming to faith is taught as saying some words without any TRUTH, what is to be expected?  

a falling away...
 

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:

but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out


 

[luigi]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

ONE ENTITY consisting of 7 heads which utilize the power of 10 kings.  Agreed or not? 
 

2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

IT COMES up QUICK like a leopard
It is oppressive like the feet of a bear
It has a mouth that can rip and tear to pieces like a lion
stuff like that and it has all the power and authority of Satan, the devil, the dragon, that old serpent
AKA the '10 toes' of the Statute kingdoms the last on earth before Christ returns, AGREED?


3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

2296 thaumázō (from 2295 /thaúma, "a wonder, marvel") – properly, wonder at, be amazed (marvel), i.e. astonished out of one's senses; awestruck, "wondering very greatly" (Souter); to cause "wonder; . . . to regard with amazement, and with a suggestion of beginning to speculate on the matter" (WS, 225).

 

4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

3528 nikáō(from 3529 /níkē, "victory") – properly, conquer (overcome); " 'to carry off the victory, come off victorious.' The verb implies a battle" (K. Wuest).

DO YOU SEE PHYSICAL DEATH in one who is 'overcome'?   If one is DECEIVED then one believes LIES OVER THE TRUTH and without truth one would worship another, aka 'fall away', right? 

 

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.


 

When you say 'killing' are you speaking of a Spiritual death or Physical one? 

If they all were to all be 'physical' WHO is doing all the killing?   


So, if it is physical then how does this fit? 

12Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

WOULDN'T GETTING PREPARED for no buying and selling BE A PART OF HAVING DONE ALL????

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

as for Rev 9 

NOT SURE HOW YOU SEE CHRISTIANS AS BEING THE ONES 'KILLED' be it physical or spiritual 

 

12One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.


SO THESE ARE ANGELS OF GOD BEING LOOSED, CORRECT? 

15And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

OF GODS ARMY, CORRECT?  NOT SATANS, CORRECT?

17And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

LOF WHAT DOES IT CONSIST OF?
 

18By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

WORDS come out of the mouth, correct?

19For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.


 

20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues

yet repented not

of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.



WITH THAT, I DON'T FOLLOW WHAT YOU PUT FORTH.  COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE CONTRADICTIONS PLEASE.


you see PRE TRIB RAPTURE makes everything dark and confusing,

what can one expect when

THE LIGHT is put UNDER A BASKET 

or the salt doesn't salt the earth and get trampled

AND THEN how is God to judge?  
 

Hello DeighAnn,

The four beasts in Revelation 13, who are unified as a one world entity, appear in Daniel 7 prior to their becoming a one world order. The four beasts therefore represent the four leading type of socio economic type of world orders that exist today. The four leading socioeconomic world orders that exist today are also represented in Revelation 6 as the four horsemen.

As for the seven headed, 10 horned beast who shall rise from the sea in Revelation 13; it is another metaphorical representation for the seven headed, 10 horned beast who shall rise from the bottomless pit.

Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.