Any thoughts on this?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

13 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

What do you think about the the one in 1st Corinthians 3:15 - "If anyone's work will be burned he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet as through fire"?

I'm also wondering, what's your perspective on the faithful and unfaithful servants in Matthew 25:14-30?

(PS - let's not throw unneeded accusations and hyperbole around, okay?  It doesn't make for effective back & forth communication  - remember, we're members of the one body of Christ.)

If we absolutely cannot lose our salvation, then that's all that matters right?

Once cannot say "we can never lose salvation" and then turn around and say what about this, what about that.

Those other things can never cause us to lose salvation according to what you've already said on this topic.

[other one]

3 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

If we absolutely cannot lose our salvation, then that's all that matters right?

Once cannot say "we can never lose salvation" and then turn around and say what about this, what about that.

Those other things can never cause us to lose salvation according to what you've already said on this topic.

Those other things show you were Never saved in the first place. Thus the cases where he says, "I never knew you."

[Neighbor]

 In response to the question asked:

I believe what the Bible records and the Holy Spirit enlightens me toward understanding of that record.

I do not entrust my salvation to the opines nor the speculations of others opinions. 

Why, because I can find opines that  will agree with what I will want  the Bible to be stating  in it's record of God's commands  and guidance of me. Me personally. You know the expression about the value of opinions and of everyone having one.

Do not weigh my  declaration as an opinion to be counted  as a survey counts things. My opinion is not of importance; God's word is! You have to read God's word for yourself, you have to pray to God for understanding  of it about it for yourself. It is only by the enlightenment of God via God The Holy Spirit that understanding is enabled in each of us.

 I do suggest that you stop playing "Survey Says" and sit down alone with God, asking how is it between you and me LORD? What will you have  me begin reading anew of your word LORD? Please grant me understanding as I read and pray upon reading of your word.

 

[Neighbor]

Funny how the mind works a times. I have an old spiritual lament of a song  running through my mind.  I hear, "You have to walk that lonesome valley you have to walk it by yourself"....

[phoneman-777]

27 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

OK, so you believe a Christian can lose salvation and end up in hell???

Are not the "many" who Jesus says will allow widespread practice of iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and lost....saints?

Edited August 13, 2023 by phoneman-777

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

James 5:19,20

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I have other discussions about this going elsewhere and this utube preacher sent me this verse and says if it were not possible to lose salvation then this verse would not be in the bible at all.

He’s saying this verse is speaking directly to the brethren and is saying it shows that it’s possible for some brethren to err from the truth as in turning away from God

And he says it’s obvious that this verse is saying that erring from the truth makes one a sinner again who is in need of being saved again from death and from their sins.

For those that believe you cannot lose salvation, what say you? 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Matthew 6:14,15

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

This same preacher is saying this bible verse is another one that proves it is possible for christians to lose salvation

 

He’s claiming in this verse Jesus is speaking to those that are God’s children because He says “your Heavenly Father”

 

And he says this also shows that sowing and reaping is what God’s Kingdom is built upon and if we sow to the flesh we shall reap unrighteousness as in no longer being in right standing with God.

 

For those that believe you cannot lose salvation, what say you?

Edited August 13, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, phoneman-777 said:

Hi, I make observations, not accusations. I've observed the OSAS crowd is unwilling to address the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV.

Look, I agree OSAS is indeed an awesome idea. It's like "tenure" for a professor or "union membership" for workers that guarantees no consequences for a lack of acceptable performance. There's only one problem. Christians are judged by performance:

"And, behold, I come quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every man  ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE ..Blessed are they which DO HIS COMMANDMENTS that they may have a right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city". Revelation 22:12,14

The OSAS crowd sees this as a dichotomy between "faith" and "works" when this is nothing of the kind - because performance does not save us, but is merely the outward evidence of our inward decision to accept salvation by grace through faith.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and truth is not in him." - 1 John 2:3-4 KJV

So, I'd like to discuss Matthew 25, but there's still an item up for discussion: the "many" of Matthew 24:12. Care to discuss it?

I don't see Matt 24:12 or verse 13 speaking about loosing your salvation.  How do you see these verses?

By saying the "OSAS crowd" it seems like you are categorizing everyone that believes in eternal salvation into one lump of thinking - is that the case?  I don't think it is the case, as there are various nuances to that belief (although in the end, they all support OSAS).

Do you believe in rewards & loss for a believer?  It seems like you do.  May I suggest to you that most of the verses one can cite regarding what appears to be a loss of salvation, is actually about accountability and discipline?

I submit that there are at least these main camps regarding this subject.  Here are these three as I see them:

1. A born-again believer can loose salvation

2. A born-again believer cannot loose salvation

and then there's a 3rd category that takes the verses used to support both #1 & #2 ---> 

3. A born-again believer cannot loose salvation, however there is accountability, discipline, potential rewards & potential loss (not of salvation) 

If you look at the unfaithful servant in Matthew 25 and the example in 1 Corinthians 3:15, you get a picture of believers being disciplined severely (aka tested by fire), but did not loose their salvation ("works were burned . . . yet was saved as through fire").

CC: @Stan Murff

[Neighbor]

and then there is;

5 the I can't gain  salvation of my own doing and I can't lose it of my own doing either, The hyper-Calvinistic view

6 I can and do  lose and regain my salvation all the time of the Church  Of Christ persuasion.

7 The view I am leaning toward today; that God is sovereign and can do just as it may please Him. That it is  is best I not go out of my way to tick Him off at me. Instead be asking of Him is it good between you and me today LORD?

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

and then there is;

5 the I can't gain  salvation of my own doing and I can't lose it of my own doing either, The hyper-Calvinistic view

6 I can and do  lose and regain my salvation all the time of the Church  Of Christ persuasion.

7 The view I am leaning toward today; that God is sovereign and can do just as it may please Him. That it is  is best I not go out of my way to tick Him off at me. Instead be asking of Him is it good between you and me today LORD?

I think that should be #4, 5 & 6   (I gave #1,2 & 3)