Any thoughts on this?

[phoneman-777]

15 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Interesting. A bit out of context, kinda like the Greek word. There's actually two words for wine in Greek, one for non alcoholic one for alcoholic. 

The one used at the marriage feast, and the one Paul used were indeed alcoholic. Last supper, that's up for debate.

Proverbs...yeah it's a bit out of context if you ask me. But, In any case it's not worth dividing over. If you don't want to drink it, that's fine. I'm perfectly ok with that, nowhere in scripture does it say you have to. In fact, its the safer route as scripture does warn against it's misuse. 

Me personally...I enjoy an occasional shot of whiskey and dew. I find it relaxing.

Experts say only one Greek word. 
 

Can you provide these two Greek words for wine? I’d like to check them out. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by phoneman-777

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

2 hours ago, Know Jah said:

Our sins have not and will not be forgiven unless we repent. Yes the price have been paid for our sins with Jesus ransom, however its not automatic.  

All we have to do is ask for forgiveness right?

Others are saying all future sins are already forgiven so maybe we don't even have to ask for forgiveness right?

[BK1110]

14 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

I'm hearing we are all born sinners and we sin every day and all sins are already forgiven past present and future.

So I do truly believe Jesus went to the cross and was raised from the dead for my sins, so based on what I'm hearing all around this means I cannot lose my salvation.

If you are one that is convinced you can actually lose salvation I'd like to see someone make a case for that so I can compare the bible verses you are talking about verses what everyone else is saying.

It seems like the majority of people are saying all sins are forgiven and believers absolutely cannot lose their salvation!

So is there a consensus on this or is there a conflict about this?

Ignore what "the majority of people are saying" and ask what the Bible is saying.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. -- James 2:14-24

You say you believe that Jesus went to the cross for your sins. Good for you. Simply believing something like that is not enough. "Belief in Jesus as savior" as simply believing a historical fact will save no one. You must actually turn your heart and mind and life to Him. That is the act of repentance.

Let me say it again; simply believing in a fact will not save you. You must actually admit the wrongness of your sins (not just that God considers them wrong, but that He is right to consider them wrong, and you now consider them wrong as well) and commit your heart to loving and following Him. Do you think God will be mocked by being forced to let people into His kingdom who do not love Him and refuse to obey Him? Do you think you can just say "hey, I believe in Jesus! Doesn't matter if I don't want to obey him and instead live like the devil!" and God will just say "oh shoot, he said the magic words, I can't help it, I have to let him in!"

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ -- Matthew 7:21-23

Read this passage carefully.

(1) "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven." Notice that there are people who call God "Lord" but will not enter the kingdom. This isn't talking about people who don't believe, the Richard Dawkins of the world. This is people who say that God is God, that the Bible is true. But that does not save them. Okay, who DOES enter the kingdom then? Surely it's "those who believe that Jesus died on the cross for sins," right?

(2) "but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Jesus Himself says the only people who enter are the ones who DO the will of His father. Action! Deeds! It it not simple belief that a statement about Jesus is true!

(3) "in that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’" Oh but wait, those are actions, right? They were doing things, right? Not just belief, but really acting on it! So what gives? Why was even that not enough? They were going to church, claiming to be Christians, maybe even telling others about Jesus. They weren't committing "big" sins like murder and theft etc. Shouldn't they be in?

(4) "And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" So then here it is; God never "knew" them. But God knows everything, right? He wouldn't be God otherwise. What does this mean? Ginōskō is the word translated "know." It doesn't only refer to head knowledge. It is also used in ways like "a husband knows his wife" sexually. It is an intimate, relational knowledge. God is saying "I never had a real relationship with you."

Paul makes this clear: "But if anyone loves God, he is known by God." -- 1 Corinthians 8:3 Those who are known by God are those who love God. Not believe He exists or that Jesus is Him or that Jesus died to save sinners or anything else. It's those who love God.

Paul in a similar fashion to the Galatians (4:9): "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?" It's a rhetorical question; Paul is clearly expecting the obvious answer to be "you can't!"

In Isaiah 29:13 God talks about people who "draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me," They say the right things, the admit that God is real and Jesus saves and so on, but their hearts are far from God. They do not love God, they do not love His ways and rules. They look for any excuse they can find not to actually follow Him.

So again I return to questions for you. You know some facts. Do you LOVE them? Do you LOVE God? Do you LOVE His laws and rules? Do you DESIRE to actually follow Him? Your heart exposes who you really are. What does your heart say about you?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Yeah, they're going to accuse you of believing you can earn your way to salvation.

Apparently those that believe you could lose salvation are trying to work to earn their salvation.  I see people saying this on this forum.

[Michael37]

9 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

All we have to do is ask for forgiveness right?

Others are saying all future sins are already forgiven so maybe we don't even have to ask for forgiveness right?

1Jn 1:7-10  But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.  (8)  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.  (9)  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (10)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Quote:

The Lord’s Prayer is a prayer that Jesus taught his disciples. It is recorded in the Bible in Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4. The prayer includes the phrase “forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Matthew 6:12). This phrase is often interpreted as a reminder to Christians to forgive others as they have been forgiven by God.

In Christianity, it is believed that when someone becomes a Christian, they are forgiven for their sins and are born again. However, Christians still sin and need to ask God for forgiveness when they do so. This is because Christians believe that sin separates them from God and that asking for forgiveness helps to restore their relationship with Him¹. [BingChat]

 

 

[kwikphilly]

On 8/7/2023 at 11:54 AM, AnOrangeCat said:

My personal belief is that we indeed can lose our salvation and that there's a strong scriptural case for it.

Blessing my Friend!

We've always agreed but to most people they see only 2 options OSAS or NOT..... one more time( lol) let us try to help others to understand that is not at all what WE Believe.... you and I do not use such a term as OSAS simply because it is a very inaccurate term and there is the 3rd option- choosing to serve the enemy and reject the Word of God.... no,one cannot " lose" their Salvation like a person that inadvertently loses his car keys and " oops,how did that happen"?There will be no excuse for ignorance at the Great White Throne Judgement- not one will say" How did I get here?"

Many many will argue " oh the people you are referring to were never Saved in the first place- OSAS or they were never Born Again to begin with- I disagree and Oh how very much I'd like to be wrong,wouldn't you?

It's so important not to judge others and make such accusations as I've heard throughout the years because God Knows our hearts even better than we ourselves do and our Hope Remains in Christ that none should perish....I say this because it is a matter of life and death that no one take Salvation for granted....Have Blessed Assurance,absolutely- no one can " lose" their Salvation BUT the carnal minded person who continues to yield to the flesh,ignoring Holy Spirit WHO Indwells will have a hardened heart under continually serving himself..... eventually he can grieve Holy Spirit which is unpardonable as Jesus Died ONCE for the Forgivdness of our sins,we cannot crucify Him Again and besides,the reprobate has no remorse,,it is a willful,deliberate choice to serve Satan

The Heavenly Angels were in the Presence of God Almighty,the Resided in Heaven with our Lord,in all His Glory yet chose to serve the enemy ,rejecting what we all look forward to..... what would make me think I cannot be influenced to choose evil over good?If we do not walk in Spirit & in Truth ,keeping all eyes on Jesus we walk on dangerous ground.....Relationship with God in Christ is His Grace thst is Sufficient,we do well to remember that

Thank for sharing- yes,there are many Scriptures warning Believers to keep the Full Armor of God on and we are well equipped to guard our hearts- an unrepentant heart is a big red flag not to be ignored imo

With love in Christ,Kwik

 

 

[AnOrangeCat]

54 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

there is the 3rd option- choosing to serve the enemy and reject the Word of God

This is a pretty good point and something I don't often see come up in these discussions. Good way of explaining it though.

Something that's been showing up a lot in my Bible reading lately is a theme of keeping God's commandments as a sign of our love for Him. Our actions really do show who and what we love.

Edited August 9, 2023 by AnOrangeCat

[kwikphilly]

41 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

This is a pretty good point and something I don't often see come up in these discussions. Good way of explaining it though.

Something that's been showing up a lot in my Bible reading lately is a theme of keeping God's commandments as a sign of our love for Him. Our actions really do show who and what we love.

Sure do...when we are walking in Spirit and in Truth we are as He IS,accessing the Heart and Mind of Christ Jesus,ONE Mind,Eternal Minded- a spirit of pride hinders our access,WE hinder the Awesome Power of Holy Spirit and the desires of our hearts are a clear indication of who we serve...... Jesus Does all things Pleasing and Acceptable -doing God's Will and obediently following  His Ways should be the desire of our heart just because we Love Him👍

[jesusandliberty]

If you are looking for a biblical justification for drunkenness you won't find one. Forgiveness also requires repentance. Gods grace isn't a license to choose sin and go on sinning. Hebrews Ch. 10. 

[farouk]

Sometimes it is not understood just how profound is the work of conversion in the heart: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6). The wording of Romans 8 and Ephesians 2 indicates a tremendous change in the heart.