Many doubts about Christianity

[JesusismyLord]

So Matthew can use prophecies that can be figuratively speaking? What about Matthews geneology with the curse of Jeconiah in the middle? The tanach is clear that messiah will be a direct descandent of David and Solomon.

And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..."

(2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

Lukes geneology doesn't even count because it went through Nathan not Solomon. Matthew also claims to have 42 generations in all, count them, because it doesn't come to 42 no way no how.

The prophecy from

Matthew 2:15 out of egypt I called my son

Hosea 11:1 this verse speaks of the nation of Israel being called out by God after the Exodus, anything else is twisting scripture. If you can take verses out of context and apply them to NT writings then whats the difference when Mormons use Ezekiel 37 to say that this speaks of the book of mormon, when islam uses Moses verse of Duet 18:15 and says it speaks of Mohammed not Jesus. They use similarities between Mohammed and Moses that are similar than Jesus and Moses. They were both prophets, both had a mom and dad, both died and didn't raise from the dead, both married, both had children, and on and on it goes.

Matthew 2:23, once again now we can use figurative speaking in this prophecy, it can't go both ways, you cant use some verses figuratively and some literally, this is scripture twisting.

Matt 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.(see also Mark 9:13)

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not.

once again, was he or was he not?, but once again the claim is he was but not the Elijah that was taken to heaven. This speaks figuratively right?

The temptation of Jesus, why would Satan, if he knew Jesus was fully God ever tempt him. Satan of all people knows that God can not choose evil, this story just doesn't make sense Why would satan waste his time.

All the miracles, healings, feeding the thousands, raising the dead, and the other things Jesus did. Why is there not one single recorded writing about Jesus from anyone of the era, all that is found is writings of Josephus that many scholars agree arefraudulentt words added to bolster Jesus as the Christ. Josephus has writings about Herod, Pilate, John the baptist, the jewish war. Not one mention of Jesus, if jesus was as the new testament desrcibes him, wouldn't he be the talk of the century. This is a big void in chchristainitya guy who raised himself from the dead, but no recorded evidence. The NT wouldn't count, because it has a bbias plus all religions have thee own twist on what happened, look at Islam and Mormonism. Since the time of Christ, have there been any miracles like the ones done by jesus and some of the christians in acts? If these things hhappended wouldn't they be recorded, people being healed, raised from the dead even in the book of Acts, which was written maybe 60 A.D.

The Beatitudes, there are some incredible saying in this message, but I guess these count as figurative, not literal.

Thats all for now, I will post more, but I have a hard time when really examining the NT.

The many similiarities between Mithriasm and Christainity

Mithra, Light of the World

Excerpted from the forthcoming book

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

by Acharya S

"Mithra or Mitra is even worshipped as Itu (Mitra-Mitu-Itu) in every house of the Hindus in India. Itu (derivative of Mitu or Mitra) is considered as the Vegetation-deity. This Mithra or Mitra (Sun-God) is believed to be a Mediator between God and man, between the Sky and the Earth. It is said that Mithra or Sun took birth in the Cave on December 25th. It is also the belief of the Christian world that Mithra or the Sun-God was born of Virgin. He travelled far and wide. He has twelve satellites, which are taken as the Sun's disciples.... [The Sun's] great festivals are observed in the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox--Christmas and Easter. His symbol is the Lamb...."

Swami Prajnanananda, Christ the Saviour and Christ Myth, 1961

Because of its evident relationship to Christianity, special attention needs to be paid to the Persian/Roman religion of Mithraism. The worship of the Indo-Persian god Mithras or Mithra dates back centuries or millennia prior to the common era. The god is found as "Mitra" in the Indian Vedic religion, which is over 3,500 years old, by conservative estimates. When the Iranians separated from their Indian brethren, Mitra became known as "Mithra" or "Mihr," as he is called in Persian. Concerning the ancient unity of the Indian and Iranian peoples, Dr. Haug states, according to Prasad:

"The relationship of the Avesta language to the most ancient Sanskrit, the so-called Vedic dialect, is as close as that of the different dialects of the Greek language (Aeolic, Ionic, Doric, or Attic) to each other. The languages of the sacred hymns of the Brahmans and of those of the Parsis are only the two dialects of the separate tribes of one and the same nation

[ruah brit]

So why not search for God instead of all of this trying to understand the flesh. Ask God for His Spirit. Keep asking and don't stop until you receive what you ask for. Then you will understand everything.

Denise

[JesusismyLord]

So why not search for God instead of all of this trying to understand the flesh. Ask God for His Spirit. Keep asking and don't stop until you receive what you ask for. Then you will understand everything.

Denise

Now you sound like a mormom, they say read the book of mormom and seek god, if you get a burning feeling then you know god is telling you to follow him. I want answers to these tough objections, why can christains duck the tough stuff, but if its other religions stealing material from the NT, ex:mormons, Islam, Witness then its about finding the facts and what the word says, not how you feel.

[Leonard]

This guy sounds like a troller with a Urantia book........

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

Have you never read EVIDENCE THAT CONVICTS ? It is all Non-Christian writings from ancient history about Jesus. So. please don't try to tell me there aren't such writings. Many more wrote of HIM than in the Bible. But it is the Bible which is divinely inspired. I suggest if you must go on with all this protesting the One True God, why not read something about historical Jesus in this book, and furthermore. I know HIM personally, just because you do not know someone I know , does not mean they don't exist. There is a huge difference between knowing someone and just hearing about them. God promises that if you seek HIM with your whole heart you will find HIM. There is no point whatsoever to collect things of similar and totally irrelevant passages in time , that have nothing to do with the Creator God or HIS Gift of salvation and Love. I have a spirit and in my spirit I am assured by HIS Spirit and in my life HE has proven Himself to me and I know He is the True God. He has made this unmistakable from all which HE has made in the earth and heavens, so that none can be with excuse before HIM, and HIS word is made alive by the indewlling Teacher, The Holy SPirit to those who Love HIM. The depths of the living Scriptures are deeper than you can sum up in this little letter you have put here or my post. One cannot know HIS heart from the outside, protesting that others who have HIM in their hearts are mistaken is a waste of time. You can NEVER convince a born-again Christian otherwise , because we know HIM personally.

You could no more convince me that my earthly father is not my father because you don't know him either!

Why not see this as a chance for you to understand God has a heart and He wants all to know HIM?

HIS love is beyond measure and HIS patience for the foolishness of man. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Humble yourself before the GOD of all creation and you will be surprised to see HE IS ALIVE!!

Let them that have eyes to see; see and them that have ears to hear; hear and understand!

[nebula]

Are these your doubts, or are you looking for apologetics help?

I've glanced through your other posts, and I noticed you like to study other religions precisly for this purpose.

[bgoalie35]

I will try to research the Mithraism - Christianity link for you. However, I have even heard some atheist websites dismiss this link as most likely borrowing from Christianity to Mithraism, not the other way around. Like I said, I will try to hunt down some information for you on that topic, but I think your argument is out of date.

You raised many other excellent questions about Matthew and other scriptures, and I hope this debate continues. I'm not ducking your questions, I just want to focus on one at a time.

[bgoalie35]

I looked around on the internet some, and I did not find the atheist thread I saw before (this was months ago when I was reading this thread). There are many other articles, essays, theories, etc out there for you to research though. Here is one from a Christian site:

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/mystery.html

I think if you continue to research this topic, you will find that any possible connection between Christ and Mithras can be better understood by placing early Christianity into its Jewish roots, something people often fail to do. Keep researching and make your own mind up for yourself.

As for one point you made, the December 25 date for Christmas, there is no doubt at all that this was not original to Christianity. We celebrate the birth of Christ on that day, but it is not the actual birth date. It is a date that was borrowed from other sources much later in the development of Christianity, and it is used simply as a symbolic date to celebrate the birth of Christ. Although, I think you would be hard pressed to find a Christian who would base their entire faith on whether or not Jesus was born on December 25. Personally, I could care less about the date...

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Jesus Is My Lord,

Try reading the Bible, Genesis through Revelation 10 times as rapidly as possible and with each read increase the depth of your study just a little bit with cross referencing and looking at the Hebrew and the Greek by use of a Concordance. Since you claim that Jesus is Your Lord, then this shouldn't be a trial for you, but one of deep interest in getting to know God on a very personal level.

In the event you never heard this story before, those that are trained to recognize counterfeit money, go through an entire course examining every aspect of "real" money. They never once get to use counterfeit money in their training, but at the end a test is given in which they are to identify the counterfeits among the "real" money. It has been found that this "training" method produces the highest rate of success. So if Christ is truly your Lord, then by all means get so acquainted with Him that when you see the "counterfeit", you will recognize it immediately.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Mr_Mya]

Hi, I simply can't let all these wonderful questions go without some answering. It's far easier to see a counterfeit when you study the original, the true. Instead of focusing on all the counterfeits out there, saturate yourself in God's Word. As fast as you can address a counterfeit, someone, somewhere is making a new one. Know the true and the rest will show their flaws.

Here's a link addressing Mithraism in context with Christianity

http://www.comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp070.asp

Keep in mind the evidence and the timeline. As the author in the link states, Mithraism is a "Mystery" religion with a very little written down. Remember, it was supposed to be a secret. The author also states Mithraism tried to emulate Christianity to be more appealing. Declaring all these similarities established after Christ as the source of Christianity, in a religion pre-dating Christ isn't intellectually honest. To keep you distracted from the truth that is in Christ and the salvation he offers, you can forever spend time making associations that are worthless. There are 12 months, 12 zodiacs, 12 disciples, 12 tribes of Israel, 12 donuts in a dozen, I think I see a connection. It's called, wasting your time.

In contrast, the literary evidence for the New Testament alone is staggering! We have pieces of the scriptures within decades of Christ firmly establishing it's accuracy and validity. Reading the scriptures is how you will come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 10:17, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Read the true scriptures and don't waste your time with the counterfeits, or you may miss the real thing.

Here's a link regarding your genealogy question with regards to Jeconiah being part of Christ's ancestry.

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/prophecy/jeconiah

The author clearly believes that because of Jeconiah's repentance, God reversed the curse. This would be in line with God's mercy. Nothing appeals to God more than your repentance of your rebellion against Him. If your conviction is true, the evidence in God's Word will reveal itself

The difference between the two genealogies is debated. Most Christians lean towards Luke being Mary's genealogy. Dissenters, of course, call the wording a flaw and thus, the Bible wrong. I think this link explains clearly and briefly without throwing the baby out with the bath water:

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010427.htm

The author addresses the reason Joseph is mentioned (as the supposed son of Joseph) as being the legal inheritor of Joseph, however, the genealogy carries on with Jesus' grandfather Heli under Mary's line, his genetic history. This makes sense as Mary is his actual genetic source from David. If we didn't have a genealogy of Mary, consider the problem. We wouldn't have a genetic link to David. Luke's genealogy would clear this up.

"If you can take verses out of context and apply them to NT writings then whats the difference" The difference is, Matthew saw this as prophecy fulfilled and he wrote the NT writings to which you are referring. Being with Christ and writing about old testament prophecy fulfilled is a far cry from writing something 2000 years after the fact. Your comments also clearly establishes that care must be taken when making connections and interpreting prophecy.

Matthew 2:23 is quite clear. There is nothing figurative about it. His moving to Nazareth happened when he was young (he was at the temple when 12). At such an age, he was at the mercy of where his parents took him. If anything, this is prophecy fulfilled in the most literal sense.

Is Jesus Elijah? Instead of reading the confusion, read the prophecy itself: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:" Malachi 4:6 Clearly the reference is to the end of time, which fortunately means, you can still choose the Way, the Life and the only means by which we can reach God. Don't put it off. Hebrews 9:27-28 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." Your time is drawing ever closer.

"Why would satan waste his time?" Why would you? Satan is rebelling against God almighty. What a waste of time! Don't choose this path of destruction, choose the salvation that God has provided, Jesus Christ his Son. God's grace will cover your rebellion, don't waste any more time and come to Him.

"Why is there not one single recorded writing about Jesus from anyone of the era" There are! The New Testament contains, by far, the most supported ancient historical documents available. You cannot claim that Christ would be the sensation of the century and then rule out any writings of the individuals who succumbed to his message of salvation. What's even more exciting are the prophecies in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in Christ. Why take a secular historian over say, Isaiah? We have his writings from before Christ was even born (see dead sea scrolls) and in Christ, they were fulfilled. No way Jesus could fulfill the prophecies of say, where he was born, how he died, and even better, God raising him from the dead with hundreds of witnesses recorded in a book that is so well supported it's historical validity simply can't be disputed with rational claims.

As for the Beatitudes, let me make a suggestion. See John 6:53. "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." Now see John 6:63. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." Christ frequently spoke in these terms, baffling those of his day. Christ did not come here to save your body, he came to redeem your Spirit. He is the bread of life, he claimed nothing short of this. If you do not partake, you will perish. Literally? Yes, literally, your spirit is dead to God. This isn't figurative, this is for real. You cannot know God without him. Literally.

The answer to all your questions

If you're an honest seeker of the truth. Spend some time in God's truth and search the scriptures, instead of searching the world to find truth there. The world doesn't have your answer, John 1:10, "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him." But you can come to know him and you can finally have peace with God, Romans 5:1-2 "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." God's grace will cover your rebellion, your sin. The only thing you must do is accept it. Acts 16:31, "So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." This verse can be true for you as well, don't put it off.