Is the second coming of Christ near?

[Diaste]

On 8/11/2023 at 4:11 AM, JohnD said:

The generation that sees the return of Israel to her homeland will not pass before all things (including Christ’s return) shall come to pass.

• Matthew 24:34
• Mark 13:30
• Luke 21:32

"33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near,f right at the door 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. "

" 29So also, when you see these things happening, know that He is near,f right at the door. 30Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened."

"31So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened."

There is no mention of Israel here. There is no mention of the restoration of the Jews to Israel as a part of 'these things'. In fact, the restoration of Israel in 1948 probably has nothing to do with the prophetic declaration of the nearness of Christ's return, beyond the fact the Jews must be regathered to the land and be in possession of Jerusalem.

The restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel was presupposed by Jesus since He knew what was going to occur in the future, and was required for the A of D to occur. If such a restoration was of paramount importance why not speak here to the destruction of the Temple, the Diaspora of over 1900 years, and eventual return of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land?

The context in the above passages is 'these things'. What are these things? All the things Jesus just told them about after they asked the questions:

"3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”"

"3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”'

"7“Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”"

There is no mention of any restoration of the Jews to Palestine in the Olivet Discourse after those questions were asked. That leads us to the conclusion that is not the focus of the questions, nor part of the answer to the questions, nor was it a factor important enough Jesus needed to add it in beyond the answer to the questions.

Here's what not to look for:

The restoration of the Jews to Canaan.

"“See to it that you are not deceived. For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and rebellions, do not be alarmed. These things must happen first, but the end is not imminent.”"

Here's what to look for:

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’

21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 

23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it.

 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 

25See, I have told you in advance.

26So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 

27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b’

No mention of the 1948 restoration.

"See, I have told you in advance."

Some of the most important words in the prophecy. He told us in advance. And nary an implication of the Jews restoration.

So no, 1948 isn't what to look for; that was a presupposition of the Lord God Himself and He didn't think it important to bring it up.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Watchman]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:11 AM, JohnD said:

The generation that sees the return of Israel to her homeland will not pass before all things (including Christ’s return) shall come to pass.

• Matthew 24:34
• Mark 13:30
• Luke 21:32

I'm in agreement.

I think we're seeing it now, and going to see it happen.

I think we're really very close.

In 2013 I joined Joel's Trumpet and Worthy Forums and said to: "get Holy fast.

Because of what Jesus was saying in Revelation.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. - Revelation 3:10

That made me think, at that time, we'd have to be good, or to be a certain way prior to the start of the hour of trial. Like one of the old Judaic conditional prophecies. If you do this, I will do that.

Then in 2015/2017 I became even more sure of it.

Peaceful Sabbath.

[Dave Watchman]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:21 PM, Strict Machine said:

he didn't just predict it would be 2060, Newton died in 1727, so over 100 years before the events he predicted.  when he was asked what year he thought Israel would be restored he said 1944.  he calculated this the same way he predicted 2060

I already know that Newton knew it wasn't going to be 2060. I know that sounds strange. How am I going to know what Newton knew? I love this.

If Newton knew it would be in 2060, he would have never said it. He would not have blurted it out, casually scribbled it down, in a reckless fashion. He believed the interpretation of biblical prophecy was: “no matter of indifferency but a duty of the greatest moment”. Newton also warned about making comments on Bible prophecy before it's fulfillment:

"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing,"

I know that Newton knew the true timing for the second coming, but that what he had wrote regarding that convoluted timeline for 2060, beginning in 800AD, conflicted with the true timeline based on his Daniel 9 commentary. The primary starting point for which he already was aware of occurring 200 years prior.

He embeds the disclaimer right in his note,

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, recconing twelve months to a yeare & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived [sic] kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060. It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons wch God hath put into his own breast.

He wrote that 2060 note to put an end to the gratuitous predictions, attempting to predict the time of the end. He made a date so far away it would fool the people even to this very day.

When the 2060 note became public, it became world news. Front page news around the world. Talk shows, internet news and documentaries. There was a sensational element in the way the news was covered by many media organizations, people were smiling, making jokes, the story has performed a very important role in alerting the public to the 2060 date.

And it's still successful to this very day.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Michael37
Whitespace edited

[douggg]

Israel becoming a nation again in the land on May 14, 1948 fulfilled a portion of Isaiah 66:7-8.

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The parable of the fig tree generation though is based on Jerusalem, not Israel, as the fig tree.    In 1967 Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews.

So 1967 +70 years for a generation = 2037.     All of the end times prophecies will be fulfilled before the end of 2037 at the latest.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by douggg

[douggg]

On 8/11/2023 at 2:38 PM, Keras said:

Yes, the apostate and Jesus rejecting Jewish Israelis are not the people of God. 

keras, you need to re-read Isaiah 66:7-8.   

Israel becoming a nation again in the land on May 14,1948 fulfilled a portion of Isaiah:66:7-8.     The part highlighted in red.

The part highlighted in blue still remains, as Israel has not entered the great tribulation yet.  

As soon as Israel does enter the great tribulation, which is as soon as Zion "travails", she will deliver her children.     That is, the present unbelieving Jews, will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in Revelation 12:10.

 

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

 

[Dave Watchman]

On 10/29/2023 at 7:54 PM, douggg said:

The parable of the fig tree generation though is based on Jerusalem, not Israel, as the fig tree.    In 1967 Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews.

Your algorithm looks weak to me. How are you drawing the conclusion that it's "Jerusalem, not Israel, as the fig tree." Or what Biblical basis have you for doing so? In Luke Jesus said: "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees; as soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. If Jerusalem is the fig tree, who or what are: "all the trees". It's another piece of the puzzle that's easy to spot.

I admit Jerusalem is the key, but where does it say that from the going forth of the recapture of Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, start counting a generation or X amount of Jubilee Cycles. Psalm says a generation can be 70 or 80.

"The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty; yet their span is but toil and trouble; they are soon gone, and we fly away.
 

Too messy. Too much leeway and ambiguity. I'm fairly sure there's a better way at being more meticulously precise with the timing. To the month and the year.

 

On 10/29/2023 at 7:54 PM, douggg said:

So 1967 +70 years for a generation = 2037.     All of the end times prophecies will be fulfilled before the end of 2037 at the latest.

I think it's sooner. I will be truly surprised if I'm wrong. There's a woman from Michigan who thinks the last heptad is 2025 to 2031. She's cute. She reminds me of Rosanne Cash from the 80's. But she gets crabby when you cross her. She worked hard on it. She's made flow charts of dates, counting Jubilee Cycles from the Exodus and the Crucifixion. I showed her how it had to be sooner.

Then multiple people make a great case for it to be happening now. From 2023 to 2030. You might have seen the videos, very well produced. They are also counting the generations from creation week, and Jubilee Cycles.

And then our other Christian friend from the forums. He's also smart and worked very hard on it. He speaks Spanish, English and Hebrew. He's also counting the genealogies of 6000 years of Biblical History. He thinks it's happening now from 2023 to the fall of 2026.

I think he got the closest. I still think it's sooner. I didn't work hard on it at all. I just read what Isaac Newton said to look for, and found they are here. And then I found more. My evidence is way better. I'm using 5 of the Biblically stated prophetic time periods. The historicity of the events I calculate from are unimpeachable. I would win in a court of law. It might not be what you were wanting it to be, or what you were expecting, but it is what it is. And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached. I continue now to say that the time to post the  empirical is past. This is certainly not the time or the place to try it. Suffice it to say we are at the end that has come:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
 

Even so, Come Lord Jesus.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Michael37
Whitespace edited

[douggg]

Dave, my basis for Jerusalem being the fig tree is Matthew 21:19-20.    In Matthew 21:18, Jesus left the city of Jerusalem and overnighted in Bethany.

The next morning he and the disciples were returning into Jerusalem.   Jesus was hungry and saw a fig tree beside the road, but there was no fruit yet - only leaves.   So Jesus said to the fig tree -"Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever".

Jesus knew that generation of Jews and Jerusalem would reject him.   So that generation would not produce any fruit, works of the spirit, and would pass away.

In the parable of the fig tree, when the reader sees leaves tender on the fig tee, know that summer is near...i.e. that the prophecies are about to be fulfilled, before that generation passes away.

-----------------------------------------------

If we use Israel as the fig tree and 1948 as the base year and 80 years as the max for a generation, then...

1948 +80 years = 2028 not later than, Jesus will return.

However, there is the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 that precedes Jesus's return.

So, 2028 - 7 years = 2021.      The 7 years should have already begun - but have not.

Thus, we can eliminate the Israel as the fig tree interpretation.

-------------------------------------------------

The 7 years begin right after the Gog/Magog event.

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years, then Jesus's return.

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The "other trees" are the nations that will participate in the Gog/Magog event, listed in Ezekiel 38, will be in place, concurrent at the time Jerusalem is back in the hands of the Jews.

I would say keep an eye on what is going on with Israel's war against Hamas, as it might expand into the Gog/Magog event.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by douggg

[Dave Watchman]

8 minutes ago, douggg said:

Dave, my basis for Jerusalem being the fig tree is Matthew 21:19-20.    In Matthew 21:18, Jesus left the city of Jerusalem and overnighted in Bethany.

The next morning he and the disciples were returning into Jerusalem.   Jesus was hungry and saw a fig tree beside the road, but there was no fruit yet - only leaves.   So Jesus said to the fig tree -"Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever".

Jesus knew that generation of Jews and Jerusalem would reject him.   So that generation would not produce any fruit, works of the spirit, and would pass away.

In the parable of the fig tree, when the reader sees leaves on the fig tee, know that summer is near...i.e. that the prophecies are about to be fulfilled, before that generation passes away.

Jesus said to the fig tree -"Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever".

No fruit on thee henceforward forever, not just for X-amount of generations. Henceforward forever. And not just because He was in Jerusalem when He was talking to that fig tree. I still don't see enough Biblical basis for your method. It's not enough to tell people 2037.

Too much extrapolation. Even the OT says we need two witnesses to settle a mater. There's only one place in the Bible that sets out the timing, in meticulous detail, for the coming of the Son of Man. And it happened already. We have an excellent template for study.

Isaac Newton suggested to watch for it again. The thing he said to be looking for, appears to me to be here now. Embedded within that enigmatic text is also the timing for the second coming.

"Let time be the interpreter.

8 minutes ago, douggg said:

If we use Israel as the fig tree and 1948 as the base year and 80 years as the max for a generation, then...

1948 +80 years = 2028 not later than, Jesus will return.

However, there is the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 that precedes Jesus's return.

So, 2028 - 7 years = 2021.      The 7 years should have already begun - but have not.

Thus, we can eliminate the Israel as the fig tree interpretation.

1948 + 70 = 2018.

1048 + 80 = 2028

It would appear to me this simple little math calculation, based on what people think Jesus was saying, is accurate. It's all we  really need. We don't need to count Jubilee Cycles, or the generations from Creation week.

I agree there is a 70th week, a last heptad, that is now preceding Jesus' return.

It's just not playing out like many were anticipating.

The prophetic time periods are painting us into a corner that will force the correct doctrine.

(“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)

And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

8 minutes ago, douggg said:

The "other trees" are the nations that will participate in the Gog/Magog event, listed in Ezekiel 38, will be in place, concurrent at the time Jerusalem is back in the hands of the Jews.

I would say keep an eye on what is going on with Israel vs Hamas, as it might expand into the Gog/Magog event.

Israel vs Hamas, will not expand into the Gog/Magog event.

I promise.

"And he told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near.

I wrote this out in rich HTML before. Images are you friend. And right now there's a whole bunch of people from all over the world focusing on the same region of the world. People are picking sides. The kings of the earth are being gathered. Events are forcing all nations to make a choice.

Look at a map of Israel. Make a list of every nation on their border and search for when they became nations too. They all also became nations within 5 years of our Fig tree when Britain and France broke up the old Ottoman Empire States and "all the trees" received their independence. All the trees within 5 years of the Fig.

Don't worry Doug, it's all good.

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

Jesus said to the fig tree -"Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever".

No fruit on thee henceforward forever, not just for X-amount of generations. Henceforward forever. And not just because He was in Jerusalem when He was talking to that fig tree. I still don't see enough Biblical basis for your method. It's not enough to tell people 2037.

David, in Daniel 9:24, Gabriel informed Daniel that the 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people - the Jews, and the holy city - Jerusalem.

In Matthew 23:37, Jesus wept over Jerusalem (the fig tree) because it rejected Jesus.   And in verse 38, of Jerusalem's impending doom, and the destruction of the temple -which happened in 70 AD, and later Hadrian plowing the city under.

 And in verse 39,  Jesus said regarding His Return, that Jerusalem would not see him henceforth, till the Jewish inhabitants thereof say, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".

So the fig tree being Jerusalem is validated in those verses as well.   Daniel 9:24, Matthew 23:37-39.

3 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

1948 + 70 = 2018.

1048 + 80 = 2028

It would appear to me this simple little math calculation, based on what people think Jesus was saying, is accurate. It's all we  really need.

David, those two particular calculations based on Israel being the fig tree have been proven wrong, simply by the fact that the 7 years should have begun already - but have not.

2018 - 7 years = 2011.  2011 has come and gone.

2028 - 7 years = 2021.   2021 has come and gone.

With the Jerusalem as the fig tree interpretation,

2037-7 years = 2030.   Still viable.

3 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

Israel vs Hamas, will not expand into the Gog/Magog event.

I promise.

Dave,  let's just keep an eye on things as they transpire.  Maybe it will.   Maybe it won't.

Edited October 29, 2023 by douggg

[Keras]

13 hours ago, douggg said:

keras, you need to re-read Isaiah 66:7-8.   

Israel becoming a nation again in the land on May 14,1948 fulfilled a portion of Isaiah:66:7-8.     The part highlighted in red.

That you are wrong is easily proved. Just read on to Isaiah 66:10-14, all unfulfilled Prophecy, to be fulfilled by the Christian peoples, soon after the Lord clears and cleanses the holy Land. Which is Prophesied in Isaiah 66:15-17