Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part.

[Bro.Tan]

Paul says in (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. People you must have patience when dealing with the word of God. And you must do the will of God, which is the keeping of his law, if you expect to receive the promise, which is eternal life in the kingdom of God, which will be established on this earth. NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN. And it’s strange that most people who consider themselves “once saved always saved” are the same ones that tell you that God’s commandments were nailed to the cross. (v.37) FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY. 

(v.38) NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. What does Paul mean by if any man draw back? You mean that once you are quote “saved” that you can draw back. According to the apostle Paul you can. You can by that same free will stop serving the lord or as Paul put it draw back. (v.39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. That’s what you must do, you must have faith (believe) unto the saving of the soul.

And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution.

[FreeGrace]

44 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul says in Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Paul is comparing life on earth in our temporal bodies with the glory of our resurrection bodies in eternity.

44 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

We have no idea what awaits us if we make it to the right side of the gulf.

I'm very sad to read this.  The Bible has clearly told us "what awaits us" in eternity.  And to say "IF IF IF we make it to the right side of the gulf".  The Bible has clearly GUARANTEED HOW to get there.  But clearly, you are not sure about it.  Even though the Bible gives us clear guarantees.  This shows that you are not believing what the Bible says.

44 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

We must keep his Commandments, Statues and Judgements in order to make it.

This is a very clear statement that salvation is by effort, works, deeds, etc.

But, the Bible says we are saved by grace through faith.  NOT of works.  Eph 2:8,9

Are you not aware of these verses?  Because, if you are aware of them, you cannot believe them.

44 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Have faith that he will deliver us at the time appointed. If we use the examples of our forefathers in Hebrews 11, we will be alright.

None of them were saved by their efforts, faithfulness, etc.  They were ALL saved by faith in the finished work of the Messiah.

44 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

Read through the entire chapter.  The text is about the Tribulation.  So, in v.13, "the end" refers specifically to the end of the Tribulation.  Jesus was talking about those who survive the Tribulation will be delivered.

That verse is NOT about how to be saved eternally.  It is quite unfortunate that so many misunderstand this.

Those who believe that works are necessary for salvation do not believe what Jesus says about salvation.  Trusting ONLY in His own finished work on the cross will save.

Nothing else.

[FreeGrace]

51 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul says in (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

The "promise" here is "reward", not salvation.  Salvation is a gift. It is not earned or deserved.  A reward is earned or deserved.  They are opposites.

51 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution.

This is contrary to what Jesus said.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

The green words is the means of salvation.  To hear and believe what you hear/read.

Purpose words IS salvation.  This shows salvation is POSSESSED (has) the MOMENT one believes in Christ.

Blue words is a guarantee of not being judged for those who believe.

Orange words is an explanation of the transfer from spiritual death to spiritual (eternal) life.

There is nothing about works in process here.  From Jesus' own mouth.  Your statement is in direct conflict with what He said here.

What you are thinking of is Phil 2:12 - Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

However, there are 3 tenses involved with the word salvation.

Past tense salvation:  saved from the penalty of sin.  Justification

Present tense salvation:  saved from the power of sin.  Sanctification

Future tense salvation:  saved from the presence of sin.  Glorification

In Phil 2:12 Paul was referring to the believer's sanctification, which is about spiritual growth.

If you disagree with any of this, please be specific as to what exactly you disagree with and explain why you disagree.

Thanks.

[Know Jah]

Are we in the last days that 2 Timothy 3:1-5 speaks about?

[Know Jah]

Phil 2:12 - I disagree with salvation being automatic. The very fact we have to "work" out our salvation implies something we have to do besides just belief

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

53 minutes ago, Know Jah said:

Phil 2:12 - I disagree with salvation being automatic. The very fact we have to "work" out our salvation implies something we have to do besides just belief

Exactly... it's not about "earning salvation" but it's about being called to be obedient to the Lord and being ordained unto God Works.

Hebrews 13:20,21

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:26

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:16,17

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


 

 

[Bro.Tan]

On 9/25/2023 at 6:57 AM, FreeGrace said:

The "promise" here is "reward", not salvation.  Salvation is a gift. It is not earned or deserved.  A reward is earned or deserved.  They are opposites.

This is contrary to what Jesus said.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

The green words is the means of salvation.  To hear and believe what you hear/read.

Purpose words IS salvation.  This shows salvation is POSSESSED (has) the MOMENT one believes in Christ.

Blue words is a guarantee of not being judged for those who believe.

Orange words is an explanation of the transfer from spiritual death to spiritual (eternal) life.

There is nothing about works in process here.  From Jesus' own mouth.  Your statement is in direct conflict with what He said here.

What you are thinking of is Phil 2:12 - Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

However, there are 3 tenses involved with the word salvation.

Past tense salvation:  saved from the penalty of sin.  Justification

Present tense salvation:  saved from the power of sin.  Sanctification

Future tense salvation:  saved from the presence of sin.  Glorification

In Phil 2:12 Paul was referring to the believer's sanctification, which is about spiritual growth.

If you disagree with any of this, please be specific as to what exactly you disagree with and explain why you disagree.

Thanks.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation. 

Don’t allow yourself to be deceived into believing that once you believe in the Lord that your work is finished, it has just started. 

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). 

[Bro.Tan]

On 9/25/2023 at 11:17 AM, Stan Murff said:

Exactly... it's not about "earning salvation" but it's about being called to be obedient to the Lord and being ordained unto God Works.

Hebrews 13:20,21

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:26

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:16,17

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


 

 

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

FreeGrace said: 

The "promise" here is "reward", not salvation.  Salvation is a gift. It is not earned or deserved.  A reward is earned or deserved.  They are opposites.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25)

Does it say "obtain salvation"?  No, you are only assuming it means that.

Could you possibly address the FACT that a gift is the opposite of a reward.  A reward is earned by doing things, but a gift has no strings attached?

Until you admit that salvation is a gift and that means NO WORKS AT ALL, you will not progress in the faith.  

10 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Don’t allow yourself to be deceived into believing that once you believe in the Lord that your work is finished, it has just started.

The plain and simple fact is that salvation is guaranteed the MOMENT one believes in Christ.  However, you are correct that God's children were chosen for service.  Service begins when a person becomes a child of God.

But your view that works are necessary for salvation blasphemes the work of Christ on our behalf.  You cannot earn salvation.

10 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

 Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation.

Again, that is incorrect.  We WILL give account of our life on earth as His servants.

2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

If you think what we will receive for the good things is salvation, you are sadly mistaken.  In fact, until you realize that eternal life/salvation is a free gift, you can't even understand the Bible.

Rom 6:23 -  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

10 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). 

There are 3 tenses of salvation.

Past tense salvation:  saved from the penalty of sin.  Justification

Present tense salvation:  saved from the power of sin.  Sanctification

Future tense salvation:  saved from the presence of sin.  Glorification

If you disagree with these 3 tenses, please explain why.

In Phil 2:12, Paul was referring to the present tense, which is sanctification, or spiritual growth.

[Bro.Tan]

Pay close attention to what the God of Israel (Jesus) is saying here in Matthew. You will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven if you teach men that the law is no more. If you are the least in the kingdom you will be in the Lake of Fire. It's very clear that law is still in effect, last time I checked the heavens and the earth still exist. 

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 

In Ezekiel Jesus informs you how a man will die. If he breaks the law and does not repent (baptized in the name of Jesus and be circumcised) he will die. 

Ezekiel 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbor's wife, 12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. The soul that sinneth it shall die. What is the biblical definition of sin? I John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we see what sin is.